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Insulted by last Jedi? Does Disney deserve anymore of your money after this?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Jimba Fett, Dec 24, 2017.

Tags:
?

Will you give your money to Disney to watch episode 9?

Poll closed Dec 24, 2019.
  1. Yes

    74.4%
  2. No

    12.8%
  3. undecided

    12.8%
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  1. Contreras1991

    Contreras1991 Rebelscum

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    Did you really think that they would openly admit that they are being botted (if that is the case), they have an image to keep as "trusty review" website, and i still think that the correct term here is review bombing and is not the first time that review sites are victims of the "review bombing" issues, steam for example had to modify his system because of that, metacritic recently was affected by review bombing with assasins creed origins and wolfenstein 2 (on the past was mass efect 3 because the ending) http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/12...t-jedi-and-its-rotten-tomatoes-audience-score

    by the way the % of the reviews doesnt represent all the world, just what people thinks about that movie in that website (positive or negative)
     
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  2. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    Yea u are correct. I wasn't saying you were implying most liked the the movie.

    I was just stating in my opinion, the online polls do not speak as a "fact" for whether the majority of viewers like or dislike a movie. As you noted, it is not a random sample so it is skewed and even less representative of the viewers. My example is flawed because RT and IMDB are global polls and I was using domestic totals only. So it's more closer 0.06% of those who have seen the movie. For me that doesn't speak for the whole, just for those who cared to vote on RT. It's not scientific, its not random and anyone can vote multiple times. Someone even voted 700x on the SWNN pole. Just my opinion, but the online polls like RT is not always a definitive proof to use as a fact to show if a movie is good or not and if it is well received. (I never pay attention to political polls for the same reason. If you ask the right people, they can be skewed to meet their needs)
     
  3. Jimba Fett

    Jimba Fett Rebelscum

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    What are you sorrry about?
     
  4. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    That is probably the only thing which isn't an opinion when it comes to TLJ. The highest grossing movie of the year can't really be anything else, but success. Considering this is the 10th Star Wars movie released in theaters, it's pretty much incredible and unprecedented. Most franchises already run out of steam after the very first sequel (including Lucas's American Graffiti). Also consideing how Star Wars is a virtually unchanged franchise set to be more or less around the same bunch of characters since 1977, it's a historical success. Only the Harry Potter franchise can be a comparison, but that was set to be about a single story, fueled by the most popular book series of decades...

    Not to mention how crowded the market eventually became in December.
    Is there any evidence for that? I've seen this argument many times before, but no one has managed to provide a reliable source so far. Espeically one which links the decline to the movie's quality...
    Considering the final (and most important) quarterly reports of fiscal 2017 aren't even out yet, it's way too early to call anything like this.

    It rather suggests that Rotten Tomatoes can't really be taken seriously anymore. Considering how popular Star Wars is, the backlash must've been massive and clearly visible on forums like this either to cause a valid decline of this magnitude. When it comes to Batman v Superman for instance (which was followed by a real backlash and an objective and immediate deciline in the movie's financial performance), it only has a 63% on RT, something must be fishy...

    But (not so) surprisingly the "backlash" is barely even visible on forums like this (with real votes from real fans). SWNN's poll was 86%+ (who voted at least 6/10) in favour of the movie...
    That "some" is 86% on this forum. So it's rather the "overwhelming majority"... At least when it comes to the Cantina.
     
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  5. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    About the fact that threads like this that have a tendency of being volatile and most members wont come into them....but you knew that. :)
     
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  6. Jimba Fett

    Jimba Fett Rebelscum

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    Well its a good job most threads aren't like that. It's also good that there are a number of threads where a minority of the members can engage in subjects that are divisive and more confrontational should they so "choose". Again why are you apologising? :)
     
  7. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Read to whom and why I was responding (which, wasn't to you)...or are you trolling me? Perhaps??
     
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  8. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

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    tbt.gif
     
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  9. Jimba Fett

    Jimba Fett Rebelscum

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    It was about my thread hence the interest. Sorry I didn't realise I wasn't allowed to comment. Trolling you? What's going on here? There seems to be alot of sensitivity to trolling here and unfounded accusations.
     
  10. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    First of all @Jimba Fett, you know damn good and well what my response was about, and I am aware of exactly what you're trying to do, but that conversation won't end the way that you think. :)

    Please try not to make yourself the victim here by ridiculously trying to insult my intelligence with your (what I consider to be) thinly-veiled faux innocence.

    Now...
    move along.gif

    Thanks.
     
    #390 Trevor, Jan 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
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  11. Jimba Fett

    Jimba Fett Rebelscum

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    More accusations and insuations. I genuinely asked a very direct question - why apologise? because as a forum moderator I find it strange you would make a comment about a members thread in a negative way. If it had been anyone's thread I would have made a comment but especially as it was about mine I wasn't going to let that slide. You think I'm some kind of Troll? Well a troll attempts to goad someone into confrontation just for the hell of it. This isn't me. I didn't attempt to bait you either as someone accused me of. I tried to be civilised about it but if you prefer me to be a bit more blunt I will.

    I don't agree with the way you have conducted yourself as a moderator and your threat to get rid of me for confronting you about it is more akin to a police officer than a moderator and I will not move along and be brushed aside by you or anyone else. I have to say you are the only moderator on here I have had a problem with. A good moderator doesn't take sides as you have demonstrated and a good moderator tries to promote positive interactions with "all" the members. I'm not playing the victim here. Read back your comments with me and be honest with yourself, is that the way a moderator should conduct him or herself?

    I feel I have been treated unfairly and not made welcome by you on this forum for nothing more than not liking the Disney Star Wars movies and asking you a simple question. To be told basically to mind my own business when its on my thread and specifically about my thread is an insult! This isn't the way a good moderator interacts with members of a forum.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 22, 2018 ---
    More accusations and insuations. I genuinely asked a very direct question - why apologise? because as a forum moderator I find it strange you would make a comment about a members thread in a negative way. If it had been anyone's thread I would have made a comment but especially as it was about mine I wasn't going to let that slide. You think I'm some kind of Troll? Well a troll attempts to goad someone into confrontation just for the hell of it. This isn't me. I didn't attempt to bait you either as someone accused me of. I tried to be civilised about it but if you prefer me to be a bit more blunt I will.

    I don't agree with the way you have conducted yourself as a moderator and your threat to get rid of me for confronting you about it is more akin to a police officer than a moderator and I will not move along and be brushed aside by you or anyone else. I have to say you are the only moderator on here I have had a problem with. A good moderator doesn't take sides as you have demonstrated and a good moderator tries to promote positive interactions with "all" the members. I'm not playing the victim here. Read back your comments with me and be honest with yourself, is that the way a moderator should conduct him or herself?

    I feel I have been treated unfairly and not made welcome by you on this forum for nothing more than not liking the Disney Star Wars movies and asking you a simple question. To be told basically to mind my own business when its on my thread and specifically about my thread is an insult! This isn't the way a good moderator interacts with members of a forum.
     
    #391 Jimba Fett, Jan 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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  12. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Well....if you insist:

    POE.jpg

    Which is EXACTLY what you seem to be doing by asking me to explain myself further....luring me out...you're trolling me. :)

    Oh Jimba...I've never threatened to get rid of you, and when I feel as though you're trolling another member, or in this instance ME, you WILL be moved along. There isn't going to be some kind of "debate" about your potential behavior in question. You see Jimba, since TLJ was released, you've come back here, and in a few instances, your behavior toward some of the members of this place....has approached the edge of what most people would care to deal with...and YOU will keep in mind that you are not going to brush me or any other staff member or moderator in this place aside.

    So what you mean to tell me, is that because I'm a member of the staff here, that "I" don't have an opinion?? Unfortunately, you are mistaken about that.

    I didn't actually say "Mind your own business", but if the shoe fits, lace it up. I was responding to another member and not you, but yet, YOU popped in and tried to elicit a response from me by acting as though you have no idea why I was apologizing to @Benjamin Lewis ...that's trolling. You will also keep in mind that despite the fact that you have such a firm grip on the belief that "This is MY thread"....it's not your website, and I will let you know that from your first post in this thread, that I considered merging it with the "Those who hated..." thread, but didn't. You're welcome.

    You can probably also thank me for not ignoring you and letting this thread fade into obscurity, but I figure that you deserve a response which keeps your thread alive....sorry @Benjamin Lewis! :)


    So moving forward into why I apologized to the other member;

    As you already know, he actually groaned over the fact that there's another "SW ruined my life!" threads on the boards and yes I apologized to him that he had to see another one...we have many more.

    The most funny and ironic FACT of the matter is this:
    As you sit here complaining about how much you hated this movie (likely because it wasn't the one that you expected in your head) and tell everyone about how you won't be giving Disney any more of your money, please consider the fact that right now...this very instance...you are generating money for Disney! I'll bet that that runs a chill down your spine, huh??

    You see, as this site is a member of the Star Wars Community (scroll to the lower half), and we were selected for that position by our content and atmosphere to be part of that community, and as this site promotes SW fandom, it also drives revenue for Disney and LFL..you are part of that machine.

    If you will inspect your own poll, you will find that you are in fact a very small minority that will "never give money to SW again", but again, as I've shown above, you are part of that machine...RIGHT NOW.

    Knowing how much you must dislike even the concept of being part of something so vile, what are we to do now?? If you'd like, we can just delete your membership, so you can be RID of helping to keep LFL and Disney afloat. So what say you about that?? Just say the word...

    By the very fact that you are here in a Star Wars related forum, complaining about the latest Star Wars movie says enough. You sit here and try to tell the nearly 10,000 members of this forum how irritated and potentially insulted that you are that you will never give another cent to the SW world, to me is contrived, asenine, and ridiculous....who do you think you're talking to, 10,000 9 year olds???

    Please....you're not going anywhere away from TGFFA, we all know better, and for those like myself that stood in line 40 years ago and have been here ever since; If this one movie...a ficticious space movie..forever ruined your outlook on Star Wars....you're not a real fan.

    People are just plain tired of it...this kind of stuff.

    If you hate Disney/LFL/SW that much now that it's been ruined for you, you're free to leave.

    That is all...
     
    #392 Trevor, Jan 22, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
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  13. Jimba Fett

    Jimba Fett Rebelscum

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  14. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I think this is just a case of getting our wires crossed on communication, guys. Probably best to just let it go.

    Anyway, I recently read a thread about how Disney is seemingly gauging reactions of their trilogy films to better inform what the public wants for the next one. That's why TLJ seems like it could be an over-correct after the complaints that TFA was too derivative.

    At the surface, that's just basic market research. Of course Disney wants their finger on the community's pulse. It would be stupid for them not to do that.

    On the other, I think it really depends on the extent to which Disney is willing to alter the narrative (or change the deal, if you will). Pray they don't alter it any further.

    For example, if Disney sees that the general reactions toward Rose are negative, they should consider that when working on Episode 9. Take what people didn't like about her and try to change her character to be more likable, within reason.

    But if they see that people are mad about Luke's fate, they shouldn't try to come up with some hackneyed weird way of bringing him back.

    Basically, what troubles me most is the implication of how little this trilogy might be planned out. If there's a pretty solid outline but Disney wants to be flexible, that's great. I commend that.

    But if they literally are just making this up as they go along (and personally, I do not think it's gotten to that point) then that would be horrifying.

    It would probably never happen, but it'd be neat if Disney and LFL could shed a bit more light on their creative processes in this trilogy.
     
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  15. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    If you mean all of Disney, nothing short of a sinkhole will prevent me from seeing Black Panther
     
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  16. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    But the changes done to TLJ post-TFA's premiere were minimal. Episode VIII had basically the same story since the edge of 2014/15, when the only known thing about Episode VII was that it had characters in settings, vehicles, and droids, and lightsabres. Unless a SW film becomes a die-hard Nazi propaganda, Disney won't intervene. They only care for money. Did they get money for the latest entry into the franchise? They sure did. As long as they do, then no one will drastically change film's story because of someone disliking something.
     
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  17. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I'd like to believe that, of course. I'm definitely rooting for Star Wars!

    Just so I can know, though, what makes you say that? How are we sure that the changes were minimal?
     
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  18. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    Sadly, I don't have a source, but I read it somewhere. The additions were just three scenes with one of them being Rey and Luke fighting. Also, if you follow Phil Szostak on Twitter (the author of The Art of TFA and TLJ books) or read The Art of TLJ it is apparent that Rian had a specific vision for this film from start to finish that changed very little throughtout the years.
     
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  19. Jimba Fett

    Jimba Fett Rebelscum

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    For one I'm not attempting to lure you. I'm actually saying I have a genuine problem with your idea of moderating which I think I have already explained sufficiently and openly enough. When I asked you what were you sorry for I didn't get a satisfactory response. Instead you evaded the obvious question with something that justified your comment rather than apologise to me for your faux pas as a moderator. As a moderator your opinion shouldn't alienate a member. Rather some opinions of a moderator should be kept to themselves. It's not as If the member who was moaning about my thread was speaking to you. You added your poisonous remark to his. As a moderator you should be fairly neutral in your interactions with members in that regard so they feel that their contributions are welcomed no matter how much you disagree with them on a personal level. Instead you attempt to belittle me and the reasoning behind my thread. As a moderator you should be the bigger man here. Obviously if a member is openly hostile to other members that is the only time I would expect a moderator to really step in. You seem to be confused between personal opinion as a member and personal opinion as a moderator. It's not the same thing for a very good reason. Otherwise what is the point of a moderator? To tell people how to have "right" thoughts and opinions about Star Wars - I don't think so!

    My Thread was made partly out of curiosity and partly of how I felt about Last Jedi. As a moderator you are in no position to say I am wrong - that is "my opinion". Seriously if you think that is how a moderator should be you really have no idea.

    I think the bit where you said "that conversation won't end the way you think" seems like a veiled threat to me in the guise of a Last Jedi quote and capped off with one of your annoying grins. Whether that means you'll win the argument or you'll deal with me in more extreme terms is conveniently ambiguous.

    Thank you but honestly I could do without your contributions to my thread if your going to be so one sided. Please just let my thread fade into obscurity. How do you think your few comments have helped my thread stay on the first page all this time?

    If I have been consistently obtuse and abusive or even confrontational with other members on this thread I could see why you have a beef with me but as you plainly see I haven't. The only reason you don't like my posts and thread is because I make it clear I don't like the Last Jedi In particular. I don't want to see Episode 9 at the cinema. Is that such a crime? I actually have faith that people will make their own minds up about whether they want to see episode 9 at the cinema or not. I respect people's opinion. I have already made it clear that I am in a minority with this opinion so why are you threatened by people like me? Our opinion isn't going to damage Disney's franchise in anyway but we feel our concerns are valid and we want to express them if only for the improvement of the franchise that is all. There was always the glimmer of hope that enough people making a stand about not liking the direction Disney are taking Star Wars in that Disney might listen and change the way it handles certain things (I very much doubt that is going to happen but here's hoping).

    You make it sound as if bitching about the sequel trilogy is all this site has to offer people like me (despite the fact I have carefully considered reasons for disliking the ST) . I love the original trilogy and I think my next thread will be about the original trilogy because that is what I love. If so called moderators only encourage anything positive about Star Wars and discourage anything seemingly negative or critical about Star Wars this isn't a forum I want to be part of. I don't think I could be patronised by Gestapo Moderators on how I should be perceiving Star Wars. If you want to get rid of me fine. If you want to apologise then great but I don't think I'm being at all unreasonable here.

    Apologies for the choice words.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 22, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 22, 2018 ---
    Thank you for that well considered post. It's an interesting thought. It's something that I haven't considered. It has struck me from JJ's contribution that this trilogy hasn't had much of a story arc to begin with. However as you say too much swaying by public opinion could compromise the story in a negative way if the authors vision wasn't strong and air tight to begin with. I think Last Jedi in many ways was compromised and I don't believe Johnson was solely responsible. Company Executives and Kennedy got to him and now he is desperately trying to explain his decisions on twitter that weren't all his own to begin with. I'm really giving Johnson the benefit of the doubt here. Last Jedi to me wasn't completely the product of Johnson's vision when you compare it to his previous movies. I always said he was at a disadvantage to follow up JJ's vague mystery box ideas. Force Awakens should have been stronger in it's narrative and less reliant on stolen beats from A New Hope ect, ect. Abrams and Johnson are desperately trying to make something out of this nothing story. It is why Johnson focused more on meta narratives and built the story around metaphors for how fans perceive Star Wars. All the subverting of expectations and such like while clever in some ways doesn't create a story that's particularly immersive or engaging in my opinion.
     
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  20. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
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    I am going to interrupt things for a bit, to help clarify some of the issues at hand.

    For starters, you've been here for a while. I'm surprised you haven't been more vocal about your distrust or disliking of how things have been moderated here. I'm sure that if you have, I have simply missed the posts or places you have addressed it, so my apologies.
    You have, however, mentioned several times on this thread that you are unhappy with how the Cantina is operated by the moderators and staff.
    For now, I must go on the assumption that you have not brought your issues to us.


    You have every right to your own opinion and views on Lucasfilm, Disney, etc, and how disappointed you are with TLJ and the ST. Heck, I'm disappointed with The Last Jedi. It really bummed me out.
    Expressing your disappointment is not the issue, expressing hate is. You have belittled the opinions of others and continually engage in conversations that don't go anywhere. If someone has said they like the film/s, and they've explained why, leave it be. It doesn't do anyone any good to be constantly beating a dead horse. It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong. That doesn't go for just you, that goes for anyone and everyone who reads this. That is negativity.

    Is there a bias towards liking TLJ? Sure, a little, if people actually enjoyed it. It's not like everyone thought it sucked and they've decided to make cliques and pretend it's awesome just to bully and belittle others. Majority rules.
    Do people like you and I have a right to express our disappointment about the franchise? Yes we do, and the Cantina has room for that. But, keep in mind, when things have disappointed or frustrated us, it's much, much easier to take things too far. I could make an analogy about unaddressed and abused depression, sadness, and anger being the ways to the Dark Side, but I don't think I need to go that far. :p

    We have the right to say what we want, and all within forum rules.

    However, engaging in petty arguments with the moderators and staff (or anyone, for that matter) on an open thread is quite unwise. It derails the flow of conversation, it makes everyone mad and allows for poor decisions, and it really shouldn't be a public affair. If things are really as bad as they are, PM us. Any of us, all of us. If you have a valid argument, we will make amends and set things right. But you do yourself and no one any favors by constantly squabbling.
     
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