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Insulted by last Jedi? Does Disney deserve anymore of your money after this?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Jimba Fett, Dec 24, 2017.

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?

Will you give your money to Disney to watch episode 9?

Poll closed Dec 24, 2019.
  1. Yes

    74.4%
  2. No

    12.8%
  3. undecided

    12.8%
  1. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    Oh yea.. and now you just need to .....

    [​IMG]

    :)
     
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  2. ralfy

    ralfy Clone Commander

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    According to some reviews, one reason the film did badly is because it insults the intelligence of Chinese viewers. Examples include an incompetent First Order and "atypical behavior" of various characters. These are indicators of bad writing.

    Also, isn't it expected for a sequel to at least do as well as the first movie? After all, it's essentially a business that operates through maximization of profit. That's clear in corporate by-laws.
     
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  3. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    No.

    Godfather - 268 million
    Godfather 2 - 57 million
    Godfather 3 - 66 million

    Indiana Jones 1 - 389 million
    Indiana Jones 2 - 333 milion
    Indiana Jones 3 - 474 million

    A New Hope - 786 million
    Empire Strikes Back - 534 million
    Return of the Jedi - 572 million

    Back to the Future 1 - 385 million
    Back to the Future 2 - 332 million
    Back to the Future 3 - 244 million

    Mad Max 1 - 99 million
    Mad Max 2 - 24 million
    Mad Max 3 - 36 million

    The Phantom Menace - 1 billion
    Attack of the Clones - 656 million
    Revenge of the Sith - 848 million

    Scream 1 - 173 million
    Scream 2 - 101 million
    Scream 3 - 161 million

    Alien 1 - 203 million
    Alien 2 - 183 million
    Alien 3 - 158 million

    Evil Dead 1 - 29 million
    Evil Dead 2 - 5 million
    Evil Dead 3 - 21 million



    Sometimes it does work out the other way around.
    Lord of the Rings, Matrix, Toy Story, Bourne films, Pirates of the Caribbean are some famous examples of avoiding the sequel valley, but in general the second film of a trilogy, or just the second film period, will be less than either the first or last film and usually the first film is the highest grossing film.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  4. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    No, I didn't. TLJ already flopped by its opening weekend in China, which is the clear indicator of the lack of any hype or interest, whatsoever, regardless of the quality of the movie.
    Foreign blockbusters are usually very frontloaded in China, meaning that a failed OW is pretty much game over.
    Rogue One also failed to gather more people to the TFA audience, despite the incredibly hard pandering and the worldwide praise... At that point it was more than clear that TLJ will also fail to do so (personally I called it right after the OW of R1), even if it was the best thing to come out since sliced bread.

    How coherent or well told a story is, is the least of the Chinese audience's concern when it comes to US blockbusters... In fact, the dumber and louder it is, the more they seem to be keen on it... Even the most ridiculous attempts at cashing on cheap brand-recognition (such as PotC 5), that even the US audience is alerady embarrased to watch, are success in China.

    “These actors aren’t very beautiful, which may deter a lot of Chinese from seeing the recent films,” - quotes the same article you mentioned. And it rather seem to be a far better example to why the Chinese hate Star Wars. Compared to recent US blockbusters, the new movies indeed use rather average looking actors (also to briefly mention the just as relevant racism in China). I doubt that any of the saga episodes or saga-related anthology movies will succeed there (unelss Disney somehow tricks the audience into thinking it's not Star Wars related, you can already see the attempts with the renaming of thr Solo movie).
     
    #444 General_Tarkin, Jan 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
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  5. ralfy

    ralfy Clone Commander

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    I said "expected."
     
  6. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Yes. It's not expected.
    Not unless a producer is not part of the human species which is capable of long term memory, under 10 years of age, or has anterogade amnesia.

    Saying it's expected is like saying that it's expected that the US olympic ping pong team will win gold.

    It can happen, but it's not expected.

    What's expected, however, and even joked about, is that the 2nd of a trilogy tends to make less money but eventually become a cult classic.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  7. Stormagadon

    Stormagadon Cantina Court Jester
    1030th Grand Admiral ***** (Mod)

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    Are they playing this year? I haven't checked... I was thinking putting down some bets...
     
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  8. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    I think this year they cancelled the team and are sending Randy Daytona.


    Cheers, :)
    Jayson
     
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  9. ralfy

    ralfy Clone Commander

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    Large, multinational corporations in competition with each other and operating projects that involve hundreds of millions of dollars in investors' funds do not operate like Olympic ping pong teams. I'll let you figure out why.
     
  10. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Large, multinational corporations in competition with each other and operating film projects that involve hundreds of millions of dollars in investors' funds do not expect a sequel to typically match or exceed the first of a series of films because historically they do not tend to do so.

    [​IMG]

    The reason that sequels and franchises exist, and are good investments, doesn't have anything to do with trying to beat the original of that IP asset.
    It's simply because even though sequels do not tend to make more than the original film, they do tend to make a considerable mark more than non-sequel films.
    [​IMG]

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #450 Jayson, Jan 29, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
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  11. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    You need to think long term. A huge indicator of success is how it lays the foundation for future movies. BvS did an abysmal job to that end. Hear me now and believe me later: E8 hurt the brand long term as well.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 30, 2018 ---
    The answer to that question is explained in my prior posts. What part of my posts did you not understand?
     
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  12. Benjamin Lewis

    Benjamin Lewis Rebel Official

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    I very deliberately started my post with the word "financially." Nothing was implied in addition to that.
     
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  13. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    Oh, just the part about it not being a success.
     
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  14. ralfy

    ralfy Clone Commander

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    But you mentioned that sometimes it goes the other way round, which means there must be something that producers did right in those cases. Or did they succeed for reasons beyond their control? Weaker competition? Lower levels of consumer spending? Pure luck?

    That's like an Olympic ping pong team trying to figure out why it did not win the gold. Or why it has not been winning the gold most of the time. Or why it won the gold so easily.
     
  15. Jayson

    Jayson Force Sensitive

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    Yes it happens sometimes. And no one has a sure bet on why yet.
    Otherwise the history would be entirely reversed and most of the time they would succeed in making more, and sometimes they wouldn't.

    The main reason no one's really scrambling for that idea is because it's pointless and addresses the wrong ambition.
    Production studio's don't green light a sequel because they want to meet or beat the original.
    They green light a sequel because it will be FAR more likely to make more than if they green lit some new title that no one has heard of before.

    It's not about beating your own record, and that's why there's no real massive amount of work going on trying to find that magic set of conditions that makes a sequel beat the original. There are a TON of factors involved in that and there have been studies, and pretty much most walk away with arms lifted up and saying, effectively, "Dumb luck met good skill for once".

    No one should have been expecting TLJ to make as much or more than TFA, just as no one should have been expecting ESB to make as much or more than ANH, or the Godfather 2 to make as much or more as The Godfather, Superman 2 vs Superman, Indiana Jones 2 vs Indiana Jones 1, etc..... it really does just keep going into a pretty long list.

    The entire reason is that you expect to make more than you would if you passed on the sequel; that's the motivation.
    If you are part of a production which does meet or beat the original...you do this:
    [​IMG]

    Followed by this:
    [​IMG]

    Because now, if you were a producer or director, you can pretty much do whatever you want for about half a decade to a decade without anyone giving you any questions.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
  16. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    Well I clearly explained the logic behind my statement, so I guess I don't understand what you don't understand about it.
     
  17. Fearghas_Ajax

    Fearghas_Ajax Force Sensitive

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    I guess we understand we don't understand...which is understandable.

    TLJ is a successful movie, some fans may not have enjoyed, may not have agreed with it, may not like it, may not have met their expectations but it doesn't change the financial total, it's critic rating, its award nominations, or the minds of those who enjoyed it.
     
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