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SPECULATION Is John Williams answering Rey's origin in TFA's soundtrack?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by TYCHETH, Dec 28, 2015.

  1. TYCHETH

    TYCHETH Rebel Trooper

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    Hi! Been lurking here since this fantastic site started, and, after a few listens to the Soundtrack, I thought I could summon the Nerd in me and have some fun while analyzing some stuff that caught my ear...

    And...I think John Williams might have been giving more answers than "meets the ear"... at least when it comes to Rey's origin.

    What do you guys think?

    Attention, possible spoilers for Episode VIII :p

     
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  2. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    Excellent video;)
     
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  3. Fooled Trooper

    Fooled Trooper Rebel Official

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    Oh my...Nice...
     
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  4. Kuroth Wain

    Kuroth Wain Rebel General

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    Great analysis! :)

    Welcome to the Cantina!
     
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  5. ArynCrinn

    ArynCrinn 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    George Lucas wants to know what happened to Darth Vader's grandkids. Plural, not singular.
    Did Disney depart that far from George Lucas' plan? We'll have to wait and see.

    Right now, I'm about 80% convinced that Rey is Vader's grand daughter.
    I'm just not seeing a lot of significant signs to suggest that she is just some kind of random.
     
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  6. Fooled Trooper

    Fooled Trooper Rebel Official

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    I actually liked the rumor of Rey being from the Bloodline of Palpatine...in some way...Now it seems like it all points to the Skywalker Bloodline.
     
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  7. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Excellent video, I admire people who know music enough and have a good enough ear to catch all these nuances.

    Someone also pointed out that when Rey catches the lightsaber there is a musical cue from Burning Homestead. That is another strong allusion of Rey's heritage, I think. :)
     
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  8. Obi-Bun

    Obi-Bun Rebel Trooper

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    I had similar feeling whenI heard it the first time
     
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  9. MyopicPaideia

    MyopicPaideia Rebel Trooper

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    I think you are spot on, and that Rey is Luke's daughter. Excellent post!

    For very similar reasons, I believe Snoke is Plagueis. Based purely on Williams musical themes in Revenge of the Sith and The Force Awakens.
     
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  10. rumorlx

    rumorlx Clone

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    That's a great analysis! Thanks for sharing and welcome!
     
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  11. TYCHETH

    TYCHETH Rebel Trooper

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    Thanks for the warm welcome! Much appreciated :)
     
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  12. D-green

    D-green Rebel General

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    That is great analysis.
     
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  13. DamionGraff

    DamionGraff Rebel General

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    Rey is Vader/Anakin's granddaughter.
    Great post.
     
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  14. A Few Luke Screws

    A Few Luke Screws Rebel General

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    @TYCETH it's very nice to have such a well informed analysis on a website where most of the cited data comes from a series of fantasy films and books :p. I'm interested to know if there's any connections or similarities that you can find between Snoke's and Plageuis' music. Just curious if your expertise can offer any insight into this debate.
     
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  15. ArynCrinn

    ArynCrinn 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    You got the name wrong... it's @TYCHETH.

    And I don't think you need to know much about music to recognise the immediate connections between Snoke and Plagueis' themes.
     
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  16. A Few Luke Screws

    A Few Luke Screws Rebel General

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  17. Lady Starkiller

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    Wow! Great post. I am trying not to convince myself that Rey is a Skywalker just yet, but this is such a great observation that isn't quite so obvious to one's first time viewing the film. I do want to know who her mother is most of all. To be honest, I hope she is not Vader's granddaughter.

    Plagueis and Snoke make sense.
     
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  18. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    Rey:

    Kylo Ren:

    http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-85357264/
     
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  19. John Boberg

    John Boberg Rebel Commander

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    Great video! I'm glad you summoned the geek within you. :)

    I'm also quite conviced that she's of Skywalker blood, though, I'd love it if she had some connection to Snoke aswell.
     
  20. TYCHETH

    TYCHETH Rebel Trooper

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    Thank you everybody! There's a great enthusiasm in this forum!!

    I have also been reading about Darth Plagueis, so here's my 2c on everything...

    Film composers work pretty differently when it comes to creating music, depending on many aspects of the film itself (genre, aesthetics and function of music).

    Composers like Williams tend to be more than just "composers", and they act more like filmmakers than scene fillers. In that sense, music is usually crafted around themes that are written around the script, that aren'tnecessary featured musically in every scene.
    It can be a mood, a longing, something that moves "internally" the film and music.

    In Star Wars, he has crafted themes around leitmotivs, just like Wagner's Operas or like The LOTR trilogy (theme of the ring, etc).
    There is an "apparent" lack of themes in TFA, which makes people wonder 2 things:
    a. That Williams has "lost" it.
    b. That All the answers would likely come in the next chapters.

    I would personally add a
    c. The Filmmaker and writers don't have a clue...yet.

    If we look at the book "The Art of TFA", it seems clear that they started production without really knowing how the characters were really going to be related one another.

    In the case of Snoke, there are reports that they thought of it as a woman. So, the Plagueis option, while plausible, was a bit elusive at the time of production.

    BUT...Rey's Theme is the one theme that is the most elaborate in the soundtrack and in the Film, with not only the "Vader cadence" attached to it, but also the Force and other bits.

    Also, Kylo Ren is slightly elusive, but a little more clear than the rest.

    So, my opinion (which is just a personal one, not science based or supported by musical analysis) is that the only outline of the story that had for sure, for the next installments, was the story of these two characters. That would explain why the themes are somehow in an infant state...as if they need to "awake" (pun intented :p ).

    That's why my theory of hidden message is there. Music supports that, and the fact that these themes are much more carefully crafted than the others.

    So, why the others aren't? Because they might not know yet, or at the moment of initial production (they might even be waiting for reports on what made good TFA and what not to change things in the next ones...major studios DO that everytime with Franchises).

    The Prequels themes (specially Anakin and everything surrounding Palpatine) was meticously crafted, because Williams had already all the answers, that's why the prequels score are much more complex than the OT.

    So...back to Plagueis / Snoke...

    It is obvious that the aesthetics are the same as the ROTS Palpatine-Anakin Opera Scene.
    But Snoke's theme is no more than a drone in TFA, without any musical implication other than filling the scene and using a sort of "macabre" male choir sounding to a bad guy, something that has been featured in all the Star Wars Trilogies. But it doesn't seem to explain anything more.

    Andy Serkis even said he didn't have a clue on the character he was playing...besides a bad guy sitting on a podium. That would support my theory that Williams didn't have an answer either and could only play it safe...it was the perfect moment to depict a bad guy (think Voldemort's theme in the 1st Harry Potter movie...the bad guy had a backstory, and so had the music). If Williams didn't do it, it wasn't because he couldn't figure out a theme, but rather because JJ Abrams wouldn't tell him...

    Again, that's just my personal theory.

    Rey's theme, on the contrary, has a lot more implications... ;)
     
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