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SPECULATION Is legends root of the divide?

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by Sparafucile, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. KesselRunner

    KesselRunner Rebel General

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    I technically fall into that category, though I am a decade younger than your example. I wouldn't describe my feelings as either anger or hatred, it was more like being hit with a freight train of disappointment. The door slammed in my face so hard it broke my nose. There are other things that I am bitter about, but when it comes to the EU, it's just sadness. Lost potential. No more stories about my favorite Jedi, Corran Horn (my avatar). We never get to know what happens to any of them.

    Those stories were everything to my fandom and I reacted to my love for that part of Star Wars by being creative. I wrote myself into the Expanded Universe in dozens of pages of fanfiction. Going on adventures with friends, fighting the Imperial Remnant, being a space pirate and a smuggler. I took great joy in researching every little detail in order for my stories to fit in seamlessly with the EU. I lost my inspiration for that when Lucasfilm cut the cord. My Star Wars fan identity was inextricably tied to the Expanded Universe; so when it ended, I got left behind.

    Having been left behind, I went into the Sequel Trilogy feeling wary and unsure of what direction Lucasfilm would take it. I did not trust the company that ended the EU. Even now, there is only one person at Lucasfilm I can say that I do trust. Dave Filoni. His work has been the bright point of the New Canon for me.

    With the ST, though, I wanted to like it; and until the end of TFA, I was generally enjoying it. But then Han Solo had a lightsaber shoved through his chest and got dumped into a bottomless pit like a sack of garbage. That's where the big divide happened for me. Words cannot describe my fury as I left the theater, and as time went by, I became emotionally worn out on the subject of Star Wars. Everybody got emotional about TLJ, my reaction to Luke becoming one with the Force was "Oh, okay...".

    That's not a normal reaction for a Star Wars fan! Apathy? Who is this stranger wearing my face? Oh yeah. It's the guy who got left behind April 25, 2014. The guy who had to watch his favorite fictional character of all time get murdered right in front of his face. The guy who still loves Star Wars, even though almost everything he's seen of it for five years has been a disappointment to him.

    BUT! Enough self pity! Why do we even have threads like this anyway?! ;)

    Deep breaths. :D Now, excuse me while I go listen to some Petula Clark. "So you can colour my world with sunshine yellow each day..."
     
    #41 KesselRunner, Aug 28, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2019
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  2. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    I've never been into legends.
     
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  3. Keri Ford

    Keri Ford Clone Commander

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    I have found this discussion really interesting, I hadn't read much EU I think I read Heir to the Empire trilogy before TFA, it wasn't big for me, I intend to explore it more now. While I enjoyed the Thrawn trilogy but wasn't bowled over by it, but what I like about it now as against the ST is that it continued the story from where RotJ left off. It was a continuation an extension of the story whereas the ST backtracks back to ANH.
    I would have been open to Disney SW drawing on the EU, or Lucas' outline, but I think they were just not nerdy enough with the story, their focus with TFA was on having something the looked and felt like the OT (not too sure what the focus was for TLJ).
    I like the idea of sifting through the EU to draw out the best ideas, geeky fans would love it, the trick is to make it appealing to general audiences as well but ultimately it should have been an extension from where RotJ left off, likewise the mythology of the Jedi and the force needs to be handled in some serious way, they just seem like super powers of Reys that she just gets, it seems stripped of mythological significance, the imaginative lost worlds, amazing planets, fabulous adventures, fairytale aspect seems to have gone. The reason I love SW is the romantic element.
     
  4. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    Alrighty then, I'm going to wade in here with a "50-something lifelong SW fan perspective":

    What @SKB wrote here is mostly spot on, because when I read her post, it sent a chill down my spine because it was like a narrative of my childhood and coming of age into my 20's and 30's with SW....but not COMPLETELY.

    I stood in line for SW in 1977 REPEATEDLY, and it was like nothing we'd ever seen...and then there was Empire...then there was Jedi....and then (as far as movies)....there was nothing. I read every article that I could pull off of the magazine rack from my local drug store or grocery store, and I STILL have those magazines in binders along with those toys that are all still complete and work.

    I started reading some of the EU here and there casually, but it really never rooted itself in me like the movies did, but nevertheless there were the stories, and some of them weren't very good, IMO.

    We'd all read (back during the OT) that George had stated that Anakin had fallen into a volcano, and was injured so badly that he required the suit and then fell to the dark side and became Vader, blah, blah, blah...and we wanted to see that story, but we somehow knew that it was never gonna happen....until the PT was announced, and we were all beside ourselves.

    Now keep in mind that when the PT began in theaters, it was also at the time of the infancy of mainstream societal use of the internet, and hell, I didn't get my own PC until 1997 with a 28.8k modem, and STILL have the same email address that I opened then....yes I'm dating myself.

    But I digress.....

    During and after the PT was in theaters, I read all of the seemingly (in my mind) needless and ridiculous SCREECHING about how bad the PT was, and seemingly then is when the divide began...thank you "internet"...but for the rest of us that weren't screaming about it, we waited for that backstory, and we were thankful for it, because SW was still alive.....until GL got continually attacked for "ruining everyone's childhood", which is UTTERLY ridiculous, and a little bit sad.

    AFTER the PT, it was clear that the haters were literally ensuring that George would never make another SW story, and I personally held those haters accountable for it...and I still do. Frankly, I might even hold them responsible for George finally selling TO Disney....and here we are.

    Look, people were angry about George adding effects and scenes to the OT, and calling it a "Special Edition" that became what we have today, but I really wasn't...in my mind, it was the addition of the technology that was available, and in fact polished some of the rougher edges off of the OT, because I still have the ORIGINAL OT on VHS and CED, and it was a little rough in places, trust me....but I didn't mind the additions...but some others did...A LOT.

    With the PT, I was just happy that we got the story, and yes, the PT had/has it's rough moments of acting, dialog, etc...but I still love it because of what it was/is...more of the story.

    Before moving on to the latest divide with the Mouse taking over and the ST......

    The EU is something that I finally got into after the PT...not HEAVILY mind you, but I do admittedly have about 20 EU hardcover novels, and quite honestly, some of those novels weren't good, nor did they seem to fit into the SW universe...like the Vong series, which I REALLY disliked, and in fact, if there's one thing that I would sincerely use the word "hate" in regards to anything SW...it would be those pesky Vong.

    That being said, those EU stories that I had a hard time with, are what really took the luster off of the EU for me, but at the same time, there were elements of it that I liked SO MUCH, that I really felt like I was personally offended when Disney/LFL shelved the EU and rebranded it as legends....like Mara Jade, of which I'm a big fan, BUT at the same time was absolutely certain that because of WHO she was in the SW galaxy that she'd be a sure first pick off of the shelf to be made canon.....and we got THRAWN.....sigh........really?

    THAT was the beginning of my personal issue with the new Disney SW galaxy....but onward to the movies;

    When I became aware of the fact that SW would live again, I was ecstatic, and felt like that kid again, and lined up on opening night for TFA and saw it several times before it left theaters....but it was different...in some way, our new SW felt slightly alien to me, and I just figured that it was because we (myself and the times) were different, which may be true, but it still didn't leave me with that same "old feeling" about SW that I once had....but I was still happy about having TFA, even if Luke was only in the last freaking scene without dialog....I was still good with it, and it gave me that cliffhanger to look forward to the next movie.

    Before going on too far about my "personal expectations" about the role of the OT cast in this new trilogy that we've thus far gotten, yes, I understand that SW cannot go on forever with them and the torch has to be passed....so we've gotten THAT out in the open...but when the credits rolled at the end of TLJ, I kind of furled my brow sitting there in the dark, and shook my head, because I was somewhat losing faith about the way "it" was being done...and I only saw it once in theaters, which was a VERY FIRST for me with a SW movie...EVER.

    Now to define "IT", I'm personally and honestly not sure what that really means. Parts of me want to immediately screech about the way Luke was portrayed, or about the fact that the OT cast didn't get a deserved reunion on screen, but it is what it is...and it's not my movie...I didn't pay for it, and I didn't make it, so I keep that in mind before I complain about it too loudly.

    I think in the end, the BIG DIVIDE is all about "fan head-canon wants and expectations" that is at the root of the divide perhaps because of the shelved EU that is MOSTLY still shelved, and expanded on the backstories of those established characters, OR (for those that didn't delve into the EU) for how people thought it should've evolved and didn't, and let's not forget the latest world of "social expectations" that also has a big impact on what people do and don't want to see....I read it in these halls every day now for the last 5 years, and some of it is tiresome.

    Did I GET what I wanted to see?? Maybe not completely...

    Am I UPSET that I didn't get those things?? Perhaps a little hollow inside over it, but not "upset", no.

    I have WANTED to feel angry over what we've gotten (or not) with the latest iteration of our beloved SW story, but at the end of the day, I just can't commit to it, and my only bit of advice for those that are on the "angry fan" side of the fence, is that (IMHO) those people don't own SW...they didn't pay for it...they didn't make it...it isn't theirs, and if they are so pi$$ed about how it doesn't meet their personal standards....stop watching it.

    I didn't fully didn't get what my "fan head-canon" spent decades generating either, but they're going to still get my money...because I'm a STAR WARS FAN....for good, bad, or otherwise., and I'll always have those memories of Mara Jade being Luke's wife...even though I'm never going to get to SEE that story.

    I'll go on...
     
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  5. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    all righty then, i'm going to wade in here with an "almost 50-something lifelong Star Wars fan perspective".

    something we agree about! : D

    we also agree on this.

    because the rest? nope. not true at all for me.
    i've noticed that if you are in my generation and liked the prequels, you may not like the sequel trilogy.
    if you liked or were invested in the now-Legends EU, you may not like the sequel trilogy.
    but as usual, all generalizations are useless. XD

    i can't say what makes a 40+ year fan like me love the ST as much a i do.
    probably the fact that:
    1. it is what i wanted from the possibility of more Star Wars since 1983.
      • hint: what i wanted was adventure, pathos, and optimism, not for x character to do x thing, x event to happen, x storyline to play out.
    2. it's been over thirty years and i didn't expect to see the OT heroes play a significant role in this trilogy.
      • my surprise and delight on seeing them all again will always be a huge reason i love this trilogy, even if we're hip-deep in tragedy at the moment.
    3. i'm at an age where i'm ready to have a childhood restored to me and long to see the world with a fresh sense of hope and wonder.
    the last of which tells me that maybe it's not what Star Wars brings to us that makes us love it so much, it's what we bring to it. : D
     
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  6. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    I got hooked during the dark times of SW post Sith. I had no idea of the eu other then a few other story bits: Battlefront 2 (2005), Force Unleashed games and Clone Wars. Fun fact: Battlefront 2 was my first entry into SW NOT a movie. I saw the movies shortly after 'cause I got hooked. However, this whole notion that there was this greater universe so to speak was over my head; I had no clue. So when we heard about new movies where coming out, my first reaction was what is "legends"? So no, the majority of the people that make films millions sometimes billions of dollars don't read/watch other canon.
     
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  7. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Force Sensitive

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    Mention it in this thread because it sort of speaks to the divide. This weekend a awesome social media experience has occurred. Someone who never watched Star Wars before for some reason decided to watch for the first time and has been live tweeting each movie. @vibeswithcisco has been going on since Saturday night and it has been awesome. She has had all sorts of people chime in and enjoy her experiences watching all the movies. Really taken many of us back to the joy of seeing them for the 1st time. Of course some fans, if they are fans at all, that are bitter for not getting their way have tried to spoil it telling her she shouldnt like the movies, but she has been loved and it has been great experiencing this with her.
     
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  8. Grummgar

    Grummgar Clone

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    I think Legends plays a part but I think it the stark difference in directions of TFA and TLJ. IMHO, one of the mistakes of the ST is that one person didn't pen the outline of the whole story arc.
     
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  9. Thretosix

    Thretosix Rebel Commander

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    I have to disagree. If they just remade a EU story, people would say it was just a copy of EU stuff and unoriginal. There really is no winning this one. I believe there is people out there if you gave them exactly what they asked for they would still complain and say it's horrible.
     
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  10. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    No. Nobody has wood-pulped, etc, their EU stuff to my knowledge. And they still have their worth as things that can be enjoyed but which, as as always been the case, the film canon had no obligation to uphold as anything other than ancillary merchandise.
     
  11. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    In fact, this is mind boggling.
     
  12. Darth Qaidous

    Darth Qaidous Rebel Official

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    Maybe it is, I don't know.

    I became a big fan of the now-Legends material in 2005 after RotS was released. At that time there was never going to be a ST, I was always curious about the post-RotJ Star Wars universe (did Luke rebuild the Jedi Order, etc.), and the PT provided me an outstanding visual of the Star Wars universe. So I leapt into the EU as it was then, falling in love with the Del Rey era books post-1999. Was never a major fan of the previous Bantam-era, even if so many great characters and planets came out of it the books themselves never resonated with me. My first book was Dark Nest III: The Swarm War (my avatar is the cover of that book).

    That said, I embraced the Disney ST as I knew my beloved EU was now "Legends" material and it's future was dead. There would be no more continuing adventures for the NJO characters. I knew the "reality" of the ST would be different than what I had envisioned for 32 years. Now that we have the ST and I have digested what it is I still mourn the loss of the old-EU, but I accept the new "reality" of Star Wars canon.

    Having said all that, even though I like them for what they are I find a hollowness about the ST (perhaps in its mythology) that didn't exist with the Legends material. I like these films (more so the Star Wars anthology films), but I would rather TPTB have involved George Lucas and his ideas more than they did (knowing that his vision never included the Legends material either). In my perfect world they would have told a story featuring the next generation of Skywalkers from the NJO, but whatever. I am not going to shake my first at Disney, I wanted a ST, and they gave me one.

    There has probably always been a divide of some sort among Star Wars fans (even prior to the PT, which I love), just that divide has divided further with each passing year and each new change. Our love of the saga, even if unique from eachother's, still binds us together.
     
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  13. Clankershot

    Clankershot Rebel Trooper

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    I totally get it. I know I've said it on alot of threads.
    I LOVED Ben Yoda Skywalker as a character. And knowing he literally doesn't exist except in an " alternative universe " like how ultimate spiderman is different from original spiderman, is kind of depressing to me I loved his story especially with luke when they were travelling. But at the same time I get why they did it. The EU really put a pretty set in stone path they would have to do. However I wish they would've atleast kept the CHARACTERS if nothing else. Luke as grandmaster, the Solo kids , and Ben. Mara. Literally they dont exist now.Luke does but not how he did in the EU. And < spoiler>



    Luke is a force ghost. After just the second movie. Kylo gets alot of hate but he IS a proxy Caedus. Not exact story but still. But not even a Proxy Ben Skywalker? Luke has no son? I get that it makes sense since jedi arnt supposed too, until the reforms. Which now only happened in an alternate reality. However I DO appreciate the ST. TLJ I actually really enjoyed. TFA I thought " yeah its ANH with different people, still really liked the film and nostalgia. However I just wish they maybe RETCONNED the stuff instead of erasing it and saying " No it happened but in a separate universe now and this is what the REAL galaxy is up too after ROTJ " feel the frustration but I also enjoy the current disney canon as well. Mandalorian is FANTASTIC I like rogue one and solo better than TFA for sure. Cant wait for Kenobi. And honestly I thought TLJ was a really good film.
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 14, 2019, Original Post Date: Dec 14, 2019 ---
    Agree. My first books I dont remember their titles but they were in the era after Luke was grandmaster. I thoroughly enjoyed them. It sucks their gone. But they also aren't it's like marvel's multiverse.
     
  14. Too Gon Onbourbon

    Too Gon Onbourbon Rebel Commander

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    Nope and I don't even have to imagine because I was an original 1977 fan, was desperate for more Star Wars, got into the EU and found it largely soulless and often offensively stupid.

    As I've stated before. If you extract the excellent character Thrawn out of the post Jedi stuff it is a complete bust for me and even he wasn't enough to make his own trilogy good Star Wars much less all that came after it.

    The EU didn't ruin Star Wars for me only because it failed to rise to the level of being Star Wars or even above the level of bad fan fiction.

    I'll EASILY take the Sequel Trilogy over all of the post Jedi anti character growth, often goofy, sometimes lackluster CW teen dram EU.
     
  15. Legend66

    Legend66 Rebel Commander

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    I think a lot of people got attached to the legends characters and story.

    I will admit when i first heard they were starting fresh with the story's bar the movies and cartoons i was devastated as i grew up reading all the books from the early 90's till early 2000's. I loved the X-Wing series , Thrawn books, NJO ect , but there were some HORRIBLE stories also: The crystal Star,Callista triology , Corrlien triolgy, Black fleet crisis ect.
     
  16. Phil J

    Phil J Guest

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    It may be worth looking into the psychology of parasocial relationships- relationships we have with media figures and fictional characters which we have limited or no actual physical interactions with.
     
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