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SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by master_shaitan, Feb 17, 2016.

?

Is Rey the daughter of Luke Skywalker

  1. Yes

    205 vote(s)
    39.9%
  2. No

    205 vote(s)
    39.9%
  3. Undecided

    104 vote(s)
    20.2%
  1. sls062286

    sls062286 Clone Commander

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    I don't understand why the rules to be a Jedi need remain exactly the same as they were during the PT. In real life if institutions don't adapt and change as the world around them does, then they eventually will die out.
     
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  2. Bandini

    Bandini Force Sensitive

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    Why do they have to change for your own pleasure is another question.
     
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  3. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Rebel Official

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    Most selfless thing I ever did (and continue to do) is get married and have kids. Being married and having kids doesn't make you outwardly selfish and more prone to being dark, quite the opposite. Such a belief is myopic, in my view.

    Police officers and military with family go to work everyday to protect and serve and they are not more prone to do evil because of it. These are the best earthly analogs for the Jedi we have ... and yet this argument is simply dismissed as "only the Jedi have so much power that it is too risky." Police and military have "superhuman" power when compared to everyday citizens. It is just a matter of scale.

    Still makes no sense to me that those who are specifically trained to be compassionate and do what is best for the collective good cannot also balance that responsibility with having family. Police and military do it every day.

    Do certain "warrior monks" exist in earthly society? Sure, but they are not out fighting hand-to-hand combat for control of the planet. The New Jedi do not have to be monks...
     
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  4. Bandini

    Bandini Force Sensitive

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    This is how it was designed by Lucas, Star Wars isn't the real world.

    A guy like Chirrut Inwe had a jedi life devoted to the Force. That's that kind of commitment.
     
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  5. sls062286

    sls062286 Clone Commander

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    No they change for their own survival. I mean would anyone want to be catholic if they were the same organization they were in the middle ages?
     
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  6. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Rebel General

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    He was also heavily based on certain orders of monks.

    Remember, let's not let what we don't know dictate the sum of what we do know. Just because the Jedi have traditionally been abstinent in relationships does not mean that's how Luke's order necessarily was. We have no concrete proof of how the new canon went yet, but we have only to look to the EU to see that the idea that Luke and Jedi could take on spouses is extremely conceivable (pardon the pun).
     
  7. Bandini

    Bandini Force Sensitive

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    But what is the philosophic idea behind that ? That could match the global lore ? Except, I want Luke to have kids ? Because it's cute ...

    What does this bring to the global story except pleasing some fans ?
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 11, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 11, 2017 ---
    There are still a lot of catholics ...

    Being a jedi isn't mandatory, it's a choice. If you decide to be a jedi you follow the rules. Nobody ever put a gun on Luke's head for him to be a jedi.

    Leia made the family choice, she's no jedi.
     
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  8. Lia

    Lia Rebel Commander

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    "Maryann also talked about the different beginning that the movie had (Luke’s severed wrist holding the lightsaber), and why they decided to go against it. The main reason was because many people haven’t seen the Original Trilogy (including the other editor Mary Jo Markey) and this would have been very confusing."

    >>That explains why Maz had to said that this lightsaber belonged to Anakin and after to Luke. They wanted to make sure everyone will understand what's any elements on this story. Like "This is the Millennium Falcon? You're Han Solo?"

    "At the end of the movie many people noticed that after Han’s death, instead of hugging Chewbacca Leia hugs Rey who she never met. J.J. Abrams already revealed in the past that this was a mistake. Brandon added that in previous drafts Leia knew who Rey was. They scrapped that since it didn’t have any logic, because we don’t know who Rey is." [X]

    "JJ Abrams: [...]She’s [Maz] telling Rey what she needs to hear, which is, “Stop trying to go home, it’s not right, it’s a waste. And that the belonging you seek is not behind you, it’s a head.” And this is the thing that she can’t accept right now. The idea that she has anything to do with this man that she thought was a myth just this morning, and now here she is being told that his destiny is somehow tied into her choices and her actions." [X]

    "One of the new relationships that we were focusing on was between Kylo Ren and Rey. They’ve never met[...]"

    “[…] But this moment, I think, is actually lovely and the idea that these two women [Leia and Rey] who’d never met knew of each other, and they’re both Force-strong and they’re both bound by their loss and their strength.”

    Rey, all she wanted in the beginning was companionship, friendship, belonging, and the idea that she’s met people who would sacrifice themselves for her with their lives, human and otherwise, is the happy ending for Rey, even though this is a very open-ended story.”

    "And Daisy, who like Rey, had come from this sweet and humble place and was now quite literally carrying the torch for this saga. And her face here, this moment, where she’s reaching out to him and finds a strenght and a determination. And Luke, who looks at her, just knowing what it means to accept this plea to come back and help. And we leave them here until Episode VIII.”

    If Luke is Rey's dad, he doesn't know
     
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  9. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi Commander

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    1. As in "you're the awakening".
    2. No he didn't.

    This...again...really?

    His father's midichlorians were off the chart. He passed this on to his son. That is why Yoda and Kenobi waited 20 years doing nothing - because Luke was the only one (and Leia) with the power to defeat Vader and the Emperor.

    Same thing. The Force gave him a vision. And he didn't sense Padme dying as he was unconscious. Then when Sidious told him he clearly believed him - probably because he could sense it then.

    Indeed. Didn't say it was. Just giving my point of view and explaining my position.

    If you read my posts I suggest that allowing parental relationships might be beneficial and far less risky. But by no means perfect for Jedi who need to avoid attachment. Why wouldn't Luke disown his family? It's too late for that. They're in his life and Luke already let go of his attachment to Leia and co. But that doesn't mean he'd be able to do the same for a wife and kid nor would take that risk. I'm talking about Jedi here. Not ordinary people without superhuman power.

    I'm not trying to prove anything. The writers will write whatever they write. I simply want to stay true to Lucas' mythology. As I say, Luke would likely change that which isn't directly that of the Dark Side but he would or rather shouldn't start allowing a Jedi to be attached, or be ambitious or angry etc. A jedi must be selfless. You aren't selfless if you have attachments.


    Of course it isn't completely selfish. I want to make my other half happy. I want my kids to have a great life and I'd die for them. But I have a partner because of my feelings towards her as well and I had kids partly because of what they would bring me. I also had my own kids rather than adopted (which is more admirable) for selfish reasons. And now that I have them, I fear things happening to them not just because of what it means to them but because of what it means to me. But you know what? That is natural. And it is healthy. And it is ok. But for a Jedi it is not. Not only must they be devoted to the Force but they cannot allow themselves to harbour feelings of jealousy, greed and fear. Because that leads to the Dark Side. And when a Jedi turns to the Dark Side they have the power to cause catastrophe.

    One police officer cannot cause a world wide catastrophe. One Sith (or two) can take over an entire galaxy.

    The power available to a Jedi is infinitely more than that available to a police officer. Power corrupts. And I know you like to think that marriage and being a parent is a noble and selfless but it isn't. If I see someone threaten my child my reaction to them will be a million times worse than if I see them threaten some random guy in the street. I can look dispassionately to a degree at some things I see on the news but if they happened to my family then my reaction would be very different. Is it possible to be a Jedi with a wife and kids and remain absolutely calm and selfless. Possibly. To an extent. And it would be an ongoing struggle. The point about the Jedi is that they have to put the Force first. Before anything else. Could most people put that ahead of their families? I doubt it.

    Qui Gon, Yoda and Kenobi were warrior monks. These were the three wisest jedi we saw on screen. And even after the so called changes to the PT Jedi Order, Yoda and Ben remained single and without families. That says something.
     
    #5329 master_shaitan, Jan 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  10. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Rebel General

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    Well, you could acknowledge the point others have already made about Luke seeing value in attachment, given the relationships that helped him get through the GCW...
     
  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Rebel Official

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    Welcome to this thread. I think you're new here.... anyway.

    That interview has come up here a few times before. The problem with the quote is that 30 years passed and Lucas' ideas for Luke and the Jedi order changed during the development of the PT and during the Clone War series. For example, Mara Jade was never part of Lucas' plan for Luke.



    It's fun to see those videos, but it doesn't really tell us much about the current trilogy.
     
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  12. Bandini

    Bandini Force Sensitive

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    We don't see this with the same eyes. Attachment brought fear and anger to Luke ( you can't really deny me on that one ) and he finally found peace by letting go his saber.

    We discussed this much and we won't agree for the main reason that we don't see the movies the same way.



    Does that guy look wise at the start of this video. Palps having cramps at his belly as much as he's delighted to see young Luke on the way to the dark side.

    And Luke doesn't make the rules, the Force does. As Master Shaitan said, it's empirical, the way thousands of jedis felt the Force. You don't change the rules for you own pleasure especially when you're the last.

    Great power means great responsabilities.
     
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  13. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi Commander

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    Attachment = selfishness.
    Luke let go of his attachments. He loved people. As every Jedi should love everyone.

    I've just posted a dozen quotes on the previous page by GL on this very subject.
     
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  14. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Rebel Official

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    Of course... Yoda thought Anakin was too old to train, but they really didn't have a choice but to train Luke when he was older. How many exceptions can you make? At some point you don't have a Jedi anymore. You have a force user living by their own code. That's not selfless, it's selfish.
     
  15. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi Commander

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    "This is obviously a very pivotal scene for Anakin because this is reuniting with his mother and his youth and at the same time dealing with his inability to let go of his emotions and allow himself to accept the inevitable. The fact that everything must change and that things come and go through his life and that he can't hold onto things which is a basic Jedi philosophy that he isn't willing to accept emotionally and the reason that is because he was raised by his mother rather than the Jedi. If he'd have been taken in his first year and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn't have this particular connection as strong as it is and he'd have been trained to love people but not to become attached to them. But he has become attached to his mother and he will become attached to Padme and these things are, for a Jedi, who needs to have a clear mind and not be influenced by threats to their attachments, a dangerous situation. And it feeds into fear of losing things, which feeds into greed, wanting to keep things, wanting to keep his possessions and things that he should be letting go of. His fear of losing her turns to anger at losing her, which ultimately turns to revenge in wiping out the village. The scene with the Tusken Raiders is the first scene that ultimately takes him on the road to the Dark Side. I mean he's been prepping for this, but that's the one where he's sort of doing something that is completely inappropriate."
    --George Lucas

    "The scene in the garage here, we begin to see that what he's really upset about is the fact that he's not powerful enough. That if he had more power, he could've kept his mother. He could've saved her and she could've been in his life. That relationship could've stayed there if he'd have been just powerful enough.He's greedy in that he wants to keep his mother around, he's greedy in that he wants to become more powerful in order to control things in order to keep the things around that he wants. There's a lot of connections here with the beginning of him sliding into the Dark Side. And it also shows his jealousy and anger at Obi-Wan and blaming everyone else for his inability to be as powerful as he wants to be, which he hears that he will be, so here he sort of lays out his ambition and you'll see later on his ambition and his dialogue here is the same as Dooku's. He says "I will become more powerful than every Jedi." And you'll hear later on Dooku will say "I have become more powerful than any Jedi." So you're going start to see everybody saying the same thing. And Dooku is kind of the fallen Jedi who was converted to the Dark Side because the other Sith Lord didn't have time to start from scratch, and so we can see that that's where this is going to lead which is that it is possible for a Jedi to be converted. It is possible for a Jedi to want to become more powerful, and control things. Because of that, and because he was unwilling to let go of his mother, because he was so attached to her, he committed this terrible revenge on the Tusken Raiders."
    --George Lucas

    "The key part of this scene ultimately is Anakin saying "I'm not going to let this happen again." We're cementing his determination to become the most powerful Jedi. The only way you can really do that is to go to the Dark Side because the Dark Side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side which is the Dark Side, but ultimately it would be your undoing. But it's that need for power and the need for power in order to satisfy your greed to keep things and to not let go of things and to allow the natural course of life to go on, which is that things come and go, and to be able to accept the changes that happen around you and not want to keep moments forever frozen in time."
    --George Lucas

    "It [SW] will be about how young Anakin Skywalker became evil and then was redeemed by his son. But it's also about the transformation of how his son came to find the call and then ultimately realize what it was. Because Luke works intuitively through most of the original trilogy until he gets to the very end. And it's only in the last act - when he throws his sword down and says, "I'm not going to fight this" - that he makes a more conscious, rational decision. And he does it at the risk of his life because the Emperor is going to kill him. It's only that way that he is able to redeem his father. It's not as apparent in the earlier movies, but when you see the next trilogy, then you see the issue is, How do we get Darth Vader back? How do we get him back to that little boy that he was in the first movie, that good person loved and was generous and kind? Who had a good heart".
    - Time interview (Bill Moyers) 03/05/99

    The film is ultimately about the dark side and the light side, and those sides are designed around compassion and greed. The issue of greed, of getting things and owning things and having things and not being able to let go of things, is the opposite of compassion - of not thinking of yourself all the time. These are the two sides - the good force and the bad force. They're the simplest parts of a complex cosmic construction.
    - Time interview (Bill Moyers) 03/05/99

    LUCAS: The message is you can't possess things. You can't hold on to them. You have to accept change. You have to accept the fact that things transition. And so, as you try to hold on to things or you become afraid of -- that you're going to lose things, then you begin to crave the power to control those things. And then, you start to become greedy and then you turn into a bad person.
     
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  16. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebelscum

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    Is it really unthinkable that a person with completely different life experiences with no ties to the pt era Jedi would domthinks a little differently?

    Oh, wait we already know he did.
     
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  17. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Rebel General

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    But the same could be said for Vader- he WAS a sith for several years before he decided to finally form a meaningful attachment to someone and let his feeling for his son lead him to destroying the Emperor. The difference is, Luke acted instinctively and with anger- Leia was in no immediate danger from Vader, yet he still hammered away at his father. Vader, on the other hand, did only what he needed to do- he killed the Emperor to stop Luke's torture.

    BOTH formed attachments, even though one was on the path to the dark and the other to the light. Oversimplifying things isn't the way to go.
     
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  18. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi Commander

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    I'm sorry but this is completely wrong.
    It was Vader's attachment that turned him bad. It was by seeing his son's example and acting selflessly that he was redeemed. He, like Luke, let go of his selfish desires - his attachments.

    Again, attachments are not feelings of love or compassion. It is the selfish desires you have for things or people. The need to control and possess.

    And Leia was under immediate threat. The Emperor was about to kill them all (from Luke's perspective). The Emperor and Vader told him that if he turned he could save his friends. That offer was on the table. And then when Vader threatens Leia, this is what sets Luke off and makes him angry. His attachment to Leia. But then, as he looks upon his beaten father he sees what he will become. He then does the rational thing, not the emotional thing and throws down his saber. This is Luke letting go. And that is what inspires his father.
     
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  19. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebelscum

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    Yes really, evidence against your bs will keep coming up. Who knew?

    Prove Luke's mediclorian level is the same as his fathers. Citation needed.

    Watch rots, anakin is never unconcisous.

    It's to late to disown a family csuer they are in his life? I suggest you look up the meaning of disown then respond. And who says Luke couldn't treat s wife and child like he didn't Leia?you pass off your assumptions as fact to justify your desire.

    Lucas didn't have mythology about st era Jedi.

    Those 3 also didnt train multiple students at once.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 11, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 11, 2017 ---
    So we find Luke was a Jedi able to have a family (even without s wife and child his is true) AND has accept s change. And becaus ehe wasn't able to find thunder balance, it's something he is able to teach to his student. This isn't s wife and children or family is bad, it's greed is bad. If you conflate family with greed ........well that's you
     
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  20. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi Commander

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    Star Wars Episodes I-VI (1977-2005).
    Why was it assumed that Luke and Leia would be powerful and the only hope for the galaxy? Why did Yoda and Ben not train someone else rather than wait for Luke?

    When he awakens from the suit and asks where Padme is - seems to me that he's been out of it.

    .

    I. DIDN'T. SAY. HE. COULDN'T.

    I said he wouldn't know if he could or not. Not being attached to a wife and child is very hard. It would take a lot of discipline and training. It wouldn't be very fair on them either. And it wouldn't be a great thing for his vulnerable students to follow. Therefore I HIGHLY DOUBT Luke would choose that path.

    Star Wars is about compassion vs greed, selflessness vs selfishness. The Jedi and Sith represent the two side. Go figure.

    I'm not saying certain mechanisms wouldn't change. I'm saying that attachment is bad for Jedi. A Jedi with an attachment is not going to be a Jedi for very long.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 11, 2017, Original Post Date: Jan 11, 2017 ---
    I think I can decipher this...

    Again, I am not saying Luke would automatically turn bad. I am saying that he'd know the risks. He'd know he isn't infallible. He'd know the responsibility he has to the order and his students. He'd know he wouldn't have time to be a great father.

    Based on that, I don't think he would choose to have a wife and kids. I don't think he'd go against that older doctrine.
    Your argument is that he could. Sure. He could. But would he risk it? Or should he risk it?
     
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