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SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by master_shaitan, Feb 17, 2016.

?

Is Rey the daughter of Luke Skywalker

  1. Yes

    234 vote(s)
    36.2%
  2. No

    288 vote(s)
    44.6%
  3. Undecided

    124 vote(s)
    19.2%
  1. Paladinryan

    Paladinryan Rebel General

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    I do think, btw, we'll hear a line like Cassian says to Jyn, but said to Rey: "Han Solo/your father would have been proud of you." Thus enriching Rogue One.

    I also think Lor San Tekka saying "you cannot deny the truth that is your family" to Kylo is a reference to Rey. Leia had Lor watch over Rey. Thus explaining why they cast such an important actor like Max in a small role. And why Rey, the map to Skywalker, and the Millennium Falcon were all coincidentally on Jakku. Having a non-Force user but believer in the Force like Lor watch over a force sensitive kid would have been smart.

    Why do you think Lor gave the map to Poe when he did? I think it's because he knew Rey was of age now.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 18, 2017 ---
    It's also no coincidence Rey hears "I love you" in the trailer when Leia is on screen.
     
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  2. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    You'll have to provide some citations to back these claims. We've discussed the timeline in this thread for over a year and your claims don't match what's been established. We don't know when Ben joined Luke.
     
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  3. Paladinryan

    Paladinryan Rebel General

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    MilleniumFalcon.com released the shot list IndieRevolver/MSW was using. Kylo is depicted as a young kid in that. I believe someone even found the kid's IMDB page at the time, and he was about that old, or could pass as that old.

    This is probably why JJ left it out of the film, and left it for VIII. Because it would make it too obvious if it was in TFA. But they clearly did the Jedi Temple destruction scene, so I'm guessing we'll see young Kylo in flashback, too. Maybe what was even shot (or Rian shot it very quickly because they started filming so soon).

    You say my claims don't match the timeline but then say we don't know when Ben joined Luke. Ergo, you have no timeline to refute my and Magnar's claims.

    EDIT: this is what I mean:

    EXT DAY - 198 - ACADEMY • Leia and Han Solo hand over Young Kylo Ren to his Uncle for training

    EXT DAWN - 200 - ACADEMY • Young Kylo Ren being trained by his Uncle

    INT NIGHT - 202 - ACADEMY • Bodies left behind - Young Kylo Ren is gone

    EXT DAY - 203 - JAGGED TERRAIN/PALACE • Kylo Ren joins The Knights Of Ren

    EXT DUSK - 204 - ACADEMY • R2-D2 upset as his master leaves

    EXT NIGHT - 205 - JAGGED TERRAIN/PALACE • Kylo Ren joins The Knights Of Ren
     
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  4. dewi

    dewi Rebel Official

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    Ya good point there. Completely forgot about how TFW actually begins. So maybe Daisy means that this sequence confirms her parentage.
     
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  5. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I'm not sure how film novelizations from 30 years ago are relevant to the story group releasing a book about Leia's family. The story group hasn't authorized novels on Luke/Snoke/Ben, because they're going to reveal their stories in the film. So far the story group has been very deliberate about the content they've released.
     
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  6. Hannibal41

    Hannibal41 Clone Commander

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    I don't hear 'I love you'. I only hear the Leia quote from ANH 'help me Obi Wan'.
     
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  7. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    None of that may be relevant because it's quite possible the story changed during production once Rian Johnson worked out the narrative arc for the trilogy. He did ask JJ for certain things to be changed.
    Correct. The timeline isn't established. So your claim is purely speculation on your part. Nothing wrong with speculation, I was just looking for clarification.
     
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  8. Paladinryan

    Paladinryan Rebel General

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    The passage about the little "boy" Rey sees, from the TFA novel:

    “A boy appeared at the end of the hallway. She started toward him, and the world turned inside out, causing her to trip and fall.”

    Makes sense if Kylo is her brother.

    Excerpt From: Alan Dean Foster. “The Force Awakens (Star Wars).” iBooks.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 18, 2017 ---
    Watch again. This has been discussed by various people on social media.
     
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  9. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Her vision also includes Luke, Knight of Ren, the voice of many Star Wars characters, and many different Star Wars locations. Not sure why her seeing a boy means it's her brother.
     
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  10. Jedihopper

    Jedihopper Rebel General

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    Actually, if it is Rey Solo (and I've started to lean this way) - that is the one the would seem fairly obvious, given many points listed here:

    • She can fly the Falcon.
    • She can speak Wookie.
    • She is embraced by Leia at the end.
    • She is sent by Leia to get Luke, instead of Leia going.
    • She is left on Jakku where LST is watching over her. He's old school, and calls her Princess Leia, in effect.
    • She is left on Jakku where the Falcon is.
    • Han offers her a job and seems emotional...(more on this in a sec) when she says she's never seen all the green in the galaxy.
    • "Who's the girl?" Han answers but it's cut away...
    • Leia's mother ring, which Pablo still refuses to address, that has two stones. (or rather, he refuses to debunk the theory)
    If anything, Rey Solo is what is hinted at in the film.

    This is actually exactly what I've been thinking.

    She hid her from Han. The newer novels have suggested she felt darkness in the womb with Kylo...if it comes out in his backstory that at 9 or 10 - Anakin TPM age mind you, he had some darkside outburst or something, and he was off to Luke at that age, then I could see her hiding Rey. Especially if the marriage to Han was on the rocks...

    Great twist. Was going to ask what you thought, but clearly you are still Rey Solo.

    Great thoughts. The newest novels did say that she felt that darkness in the womb. That changes a whole heck of a lot for me.

    Also a great twist, it could be part of his redemption if she brings her brother back.

    As much as you reference Bloodline, you have to also reference the last book in the Aftermath trilogy, where it states that Leia feels darkness about Ben in her womb...that has more weight to me, than even Bloodline, which fast forwards several years ahead where the tragedy of the (presumed) dead child might already have been in 10 years of family silence.

    Exactly.

    As you've all been able to gather, I'm leaning much more towards Rey Solo now. Probably almost to the point that I think ReySky is done.

    There are other things too - the way they kept referencing Carrie as "the princess" during Celebration, particularly GL. The way that they are wanting to not only have Rey be the new strong female hero, but also honor the past in Leia.

    Frankly, her death may have even played into this somewhat, but I think it was always the plan....

    If Rey is her secret daughter, who becomes the savior, she redeems Luke and his training, makes right Han Solo's death and the parenting failure of Ben, and it also honors Princess Leia.

    And in story, she might also help bring her brother back.

    When the trilogy ends, she ends up the leader of the new jedi/force users/whatever they will be called AND the resistance/republic, thus reaching all the way back to Anakin/Padme and Luke/Leia (per Colin T's description of what IX is supposed to do) and completing everybody's arcs.

    More and more, I'm thinking this is the way they are leaning.

    (Do we have any cannon timeline for when Han and Leia's relationship got rocky? When they separated? If it was around the time or slightly before Ben went to Luke (and assuming ben was 9 or 10), this all fits well.

    Hell, Leia could've stashed her on Jakku with Lor San Tekka to watch and arranged for the Falcon to be taken from Han and placed there. He also conveniently ends up with the map to Luke, that Leia sends Poe to go get...maybe her plan for Luke was going to get him and tell him to get Rey now.

    Han seems in his Rey scenes to me like he's sort of figured it out in his mind but not sure for certain...but it's starting to dawn on him that maybe...just maybe...Leia kept a secret.

    And when people say - but he didn't seem all that concerned when Kylo took her on Takkadona...unless he was starting to suspect that Kylo was her brother and wouldn't harm her.)
     
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  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    Marriage was still going strong in Bloodline. They split up apparently after Ben became Kylo around five years before TFA. However, that's from Bloodline and apparently that book about her family is meaningless. :)
     
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  12. dewi

    dewi Rebel Official

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    If they are siblings, I would think that's kinda obvious and boring for us viewers. Leia saying "He's your bro" or Luke saying "I'm your uncle", doesn't have that much of a revealling effect. It is a possibility tho, and it could work well as a story for this trilogy.
     
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  13. Jedihopper

    Jedihopper Rebel General

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    "It's another Death Star."
    "This was the Death Star major. This is Star killer base".
    "So it's big. We'll blow it up. There's always a way to do that..."
    "It's shielded."
    "We disable the shields."
    "Right. We'll get the shields down, hit with everything we've got and take down their big gun."

    I frankly don't think Disney gives two shits if things are kinda obvious and boring for us viewers.
     
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  14. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    Most people think Solo is out the window because they pulled the whole 'but they don't directly recognize each other' trick again (echoing Star Wars (1977)). So it's not obvious to them if they fell for that.
     
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  15. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    Going through all these posts, and having wrestled with the topic on my own since Episode VII, I find myself these days hoping the storytellers, in allowing the question of Rey's parentage to loom so largely and centrally so as to eclipse the larger story to be told, are justified in that decision.

    I'm hoping it does turn out to be important point, something integral to the very heart of this sequel trilogy, given how much conversation and debating this one question has provoked.

    Here we are at over 430 pages, and, to cite another example, over at the Jedi Council Forums, their "Rey's Lineage" thread is now over 1,700 pages. Amazing.

    This has grown to become such a pivotal or divisive point, so much that, whatever the explanation, whomever she turns out to be, if anyone -- whatever answer or information is presented in VIII and/or IX -- the end result has the potential of simultaneously generating much excitement, disappointment, and underwhelming.

    So, hopefully the anticipation many of us collectively feel is somewhat proportionate to what might be reveled as an essential aspect of this character.

    If, on the other hand, this familial matter turns out to be insignificant, irrelevant even, I believe that would be an inordinate and unnecessary infusion of mystery into a storyline which already leaves us asking so many questions and making so many speculations.

    Personally, I look forward to moving past this question and getting to the deeper storyline at hand, especially the future of the Jedi, the mysteries of the Force, Snoke, and all the rest. There really are so many other things to be considered after this :)
     
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  16. Paladinryan

    Paladinryan Rebel General

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    Glad we agree Jedihopper!

    The fact that Han and Leia both did their own thing and spent time apart a lot supports the idea that she could hide a pregnancy. Plus Kylo started going bad early, so Han may have spent less and less time at home.

    Let's not forget Snoke senses Kylo's compassion for Rey in the novel.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 18, 2017 ---
    By the way, this idea that Rian changed things---Kennedy said a lot of his ideas were the same as theirs.
     
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  17. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    If Rey & Ren are siblings (hey look, 1 letter different! still though) my jaw will hit the ground.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 18, 2017 ---
    Also at this point I'm 99% sure she's Not the daughter of Mr. & Mrs. Random of Chandrilla. Or Mr. & Mrs. Imperials of Cardia.
     
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  18. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Some new faces here jumping in without being clear of the facts or questions that need answering.

    If Rey is a Solo why was she presumed dead when her mother senses when those around her perish? She says at the start of TFA novel that she'd have known if Luke were alive or dead. Same likely goes for Luke and Kylo.

    When Kylo, Leia and Luke meet Rey they don't know who she is. If they had met before then they'd sense it was the same person.

    When Han and Kylo meet Rey, if she were taken from them age 5, then they should realise who say is (they've never seen a body and would know her death wasn't sensed). They find this orphan from Jakku who bares a resemblance to their daughter/sister, who is strong with the Force, has been connected to them in a fatalistic way (Luke's saber, the Falcon etc) and is the right age. Yet Han never even muses that she could be his daughter and in the novel it makes it clear that Leia doesn't know who she is after Han speaks to her.

    Han and Leia do not talk about their dead daughter in what is their last moment together (which is important from the audience POV) but also in the context of talking about their sons fall - surely this event would have had the biggest impact, the death of his sister? Yet this huge moment isn't ever spoken of and they only ever talk about losing their son. Weird. It would tarnish TFA.

    Do we really think that Rey would remember nothing at all about her parents? She already knew Han's name and legacy and when she sees him, nothing clicks. If The Solo's don't know who she is and Luke doesn't know who she is, then really only Rey can know - so how can this be revealed? If she doesn't recognise Han as her father, then who will?!

    Maz confirms Rey's fears to her: "they're [your family] are never coming back". Now whether this means they're dead or never coming back to a Jakku, it would be a weird thing to say when daddy is upstairs! Surely Maz would have an inkling Han could be daddy? Or if not, it would simply just make Maz, who is presented as a wise force user, as stupid.

    That'll do for now...
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 18, 2017 ---
    Just a brief point, I thought Rey Solo made the most narrative sense pre-TFA. I'd have dug that. But I think that film buried that idea along with the fact that I think they're ending the Skywalker saga with this trilogy. Rey is unrelated and so can continue the Jedi whilst the Skywalker's leave the GFFA for good...
     
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  19. Jedihopper

    Jedihopper Rebel General

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    1.) Why were Anakin/Vaders kids presumed dead when Leia was right in front of him for half of ANH? He says verbally that he senses the presence of Obi-wan on the deathstar...and he's not family. Plus Anakin/Vader is the chosen one born of the midichlorians. In any event, we're talking now about Leia knowing and hiding her from everybody else.

    2.) You can't prove that Leia didn't know who she was. Han, perhaps. Kylo it seems. But Leia runs up to her, ignoring Chewie after Han's death, and hugs her. Has a conversation with her offscreen that results in her going to find Luke, and not his sister. But if Leia hid her, neither Kylo or Han would know.

    3.) It's not that weird...if she'd been presumed dead for 10 years or more, it would be normal for their family to keep it in silence. Or, if we are going the Leia hid her route, that whole thing is moot.

    4.) Rey wouldn't know if she was abandoned by 5, and cared for by guardians (Lor San Tekka?) before then because Leia hid her from birth. And Luke and Han wouldn't know - but would start to feel/suspect after more time was spent. As Han seemed to do, and Luke will do in VIII.

    4.) Actually, as has been debated here often, Maz's EXACT line is "Whomever." Whomever you're waiting for, (which could very well just be guardians who had to ditch her for all Maz knows), isn't coming back. Maz senses greatness and future, and Luke in her destiny. She's not a Jedi...by her own admission. But she senses that much. Again, if Han didn't know about her, but is maybe starting to suspect something...it makes it all the more interesting that the Han and Maz convo WASN'T shown.

    NOTE - I'm not out and out arguing with you Shaitan, although I believe each point to likely be true.

    Just saying that none of that is settled science, so to speak...there are plausible counter-points to each one.

    The debate rages on....

    (although perhaps should be merged/recreated into a larger "Rey's Parents" thread)
     
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  20. perrymoon

    perrymoon Rebel General

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    By the way, if we are going to take so seriously every sentence that pops up in the trailers, maybe we should remember TFA trailer was Luke voice saying

    The force is strong in my family,
    My father have it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power too.

    Now I highly doubt he was talking to Ben. TFA is a movie about Rey finding Luke Skywalker.



    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 18, 2017 ---


    This is very interesting, because indeed, Ben going dark and Rey's birth could perfectly match.

    In the TFA novel is stated that Han sees the face of his son grown up for the first time. This means Ben fall to the dark side pretty young, cause we know from the film that Leia and Han divorced after Ben left.

    If Luke was about to have a child, for instance, it's the perfect opportunity for Snoke to tell Ben "dude, Luke's baby is going to be much more powerful than you. You will never top that and you won't be the strongest one if that baby learns the ways of the force."
    In his anger, Ben destroys the academy in a movement against Luke, but when he's in front of the baby, his light side calls and he's unable to kill Rey (that could explain why Kylo kill one of the knights of Ren, if that knight was about to do what Kylo didn't do). That left and opportunity for Luke to give Rey someone else when she was still a baby (therefore, as Leia, from her point of view at the moment her parents are the ones who adopted her).
     
    #8680 perrymoon, Apr 18, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2017
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