1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

SPECULATION Is Luke Rey's Father? - The Evidence For and Against

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by master_shaitan, Feb 17, 2016.

?

Is Rey the daughter of Luke Skywalker

  1. Yes

    234 vote(s)
    36.2%
  2. No

    288 vote(s)
    44.6%
  3. Undecided

    124 vote(s)
    19.2%
  1. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Posts:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    72,425
    Trophy Points:
    171,705
    Credits:
    23,625
    Ratings:
    +78,218 / 26 / -13
    lol that crosses my mind every day here.

    What really confuses me is that some think that Qui-gon was one of these mythical Grey Jedi creatures. I thought he was the true light sided Jedi, and it was the rest that had lost their way.

    each to his/her own i guess :)

    The trailer really has put the cat among the midichlorians. First trailers can deceive you.. don't trust them. Breathe... just.. breathe.
     
    • Like Like x 8
    • Wise Wise x 2
  2. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Posts:
    7,119
    Likes Received:
    10,294
    Trophy Points:
    144,192
    Credits:
    15,678
    Ratings:
    +19,242 / 799 / -292
    Exactly! Yoda even heralds him as being wiser than him and humbly asks for his guidance! Jinn was a great example of how a Jedi should be. Yoda learned a lot from him. But now all that was wrong? Not a chance!
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Wise Wise x 1
  3. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2014
    Posts:
    3,223
    Likes Received:
    72,425
    Trophy Points:
    171,705
    Credits:
    23,625
    Ratings:
    +78,218 / 26 / -13
    Exactly.. exactly ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  4. Shadrac

    Shadrac Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2015
    Posts:
    416
    Likes Received:
    314
    Trophy Points:
    1,807
    Credits:
    1,001
    Ratings:
    +816 / 34 / -3
    I've mostly steered clear of the 'grey Jedi' debate because I wasn't all that familiar with all the references and, with Pablo seeming to have debunked the idea, I though it was mostly dead. But then we have 'Rebels' giving us examples of characters who are at the very least 'grey' force users in Ashoka and Bindu. Bindu is clearly not a Jedi but Ashoka, to me, wasn't so clear cut. She certainly was a Jedi at some point and while the PT Jedi might not consider her a Jedi at that point (in 'Rebels'), I don't think it's necessarily certain that the Force wouldn't still consider her a Jedi.

    For me, I think the issue is that there are those who believe that the PT Jedi way is the only Jedi way and if you stray from that you can't be a Jedi. Clearly the PT Jedi weren't perfect or we wouldn't have had Qui-Gon being in dispute with them and later being proven right and the PT Jedi proven wrong. Qui-Gon, in talking about the code needing to be changed, was clearly suggesting that the Jedi order should be one that evolves and adapts and even change as the galaxy they serve does the same thing in order to fully be able to fulfill their obligation to the galaxy and to the Force. The message is clear; a Jedi order that is stuck in it's rigid code and refuses to accept any change or even opposing points of view cannot last long or hope to succeed in their calling as their own short shortsightedness will bring about their downfall and that's exactly what happened in the PT.

    The term 'Grey Jedi' has taken on a negative connotation to some and I can understand why. One of the biggest themes in Star Wars is the danger of the dark side of the Force so it's understandable that the idea of a Jedi trying to use the dark side at all would be a disturbing thought. Not to mention that it would seem very risky for any force user to even try to dabble in the dark side given it's seductive powers. I would agree that it would probably be a bad idea story wise. However, if the 'Grey' is in reference to where a character stands morally rather than their Force usage than the term 'Grey Jedi' takes on a whole new meaning. Qui-Gon was in dispute with the PT Jedi on moral and code issues yet was still a Jedi. His stance kept him from being on the Jedi council and even swore he would defy them if necessary to train Anakin. Clearly, he was not morally or ethically aligned with them and he certainly wasn't dark and never used the dark side of the Force. He was therefore some where in between or essentially morally 'Grey' if you view the PT Jedi as completely light and the Sith as completely dark yet was still, without question, a Jedi.

    My point is this; given what they keep doing with the new canon like 'Rebels' and now the new trailer with Luke's line that the Jedi must end coupled with Daisy's statement in and interview after the trailer was released that the line refers to a new direction rather than an actual ending of the Jedi, it's becoming pretty clear that we are going to see a different and likely more evolved and successful Jedi order rather than rebuilding the dogmatic and restrictive order that we saw utterly fail in the PT. That tells me the focus will be more on serving the will of the force and being the guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy and less on mandating every aspect of a Jedi's life and getting involved in galactic politics.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  5. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,468
    Likes Received:
    20,264
    Trophy Points:
    146,667
    Credits:
    18,500
    Ratings:
    +24,722 / 65 / -37
    Just the way I see it, but I think there are 2 different (and not necessarily accurate) ways people interpret the grey.
    It's always a sort of middle ground, but the boundaries are not always the same.

    There's this:
    Light Side-----Grey-----Dark Side
    Implying that the Grey exists as a sort of middle of the Force between the actual light and dark sides.

    And this:
    Jedi-----Grey-----Sith
    Implying the Grey exists between these two orders.

    Now, sometimes, these differences can be inconsequential, but consider if the Jedi order as an institution strayed from the light, as is sort of the case during the Clone Wars and late Republic eras. With the increasing involvement of the Jedi in outside martial affairs, Qui Gon existed in some ways outside of the Order, in that sort of Grey area. Not to say that he was any more Sith, but that he existed in a sort of "No Man's Land" that did not have the rigid structure of the Jedi or rituals of the Sith.

    As far as to whether or not he fully embraced the dark side equal with the light- well, for that, I cannot say, but I kind of doubt it.

    Also, as to which, if either or both, of these interpretations is correct- well, I think that needs some clarification, too.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Posts:
    6,074
    Likes Received:
    9,089
    Trophy Points:
    144,614
    Credits:
    10,159
    Ratings:
    +17,697 / 314 / -187


     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    1,289
    Likes Received:
    1,805
    Trophy Points:
    6,937
    Credits:
    4,640
    Ratings:
    +3,237 / 97 / -34
    "It's a trap!" - Ackbar
    "Well, what do you know?" - Dexter Jettser
    "Look around! I gotta lotta junk!" - Watto

    Just some quotes for you guys :rolleyes:

    I'm honestly not too worried about the abandoning of the Jedi order, primarily because I don't think it'll happen. The only reason anyone thinks with any certainty that the Jedi will end is because of the trailer, but I think that the trailer's a red herring. Jedi has too much attached to it for Disney, or any sane person, to want to drop it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  8. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Posts:
    4,858
    Likes Received:
    5,532
    Trophy Points:
    87,267
    Credits:
    9,050
    Ratings:
    +10,268 / 461 / -131
    I'm not confortable with the traduction I have for reach in and reach out.

    Can someone explain me the concept ?
     
    • Hopeful Hopeful x 1
  9. DarthPilkington

    DarthPilkington Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2014
    Posts:
    1,289
    Likes Received:
    1,805
    Trophy Points:
    6,937
    Credits:
    4,640
    Ratings:
    +3,237 / 97 / -34
    when Luke says to, "reach out" i think he's referring to being aware of your surroundings and such. the "breathe" lines are meant to get Rey to still her mind, and then, "reach out" would be something like, "what do you feel, or notice?"

    we aren't privy to Force abilities and all that, but i guess i would liken it to when a Buddhist is meditating and focusing on small things, like the sound of a bird singing, the way the air brushes against your skin, the smell of flowers, the buzz of a fly, the dripping of water, the temperature of the air, whatever.

    "reaching in" would be similar in that you would calm your mind first and let transient thoughts go away, but instead of focusing on what's around you, you focus more on yourself at an introspective level.

    it's a clumsy sort of translation, but hopefully it's close!
     
    #8749 DarthPilkington, Apr 19, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  10. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2014
    Posts:
    2,350
    Likes Received:
    3,741
    Trophy Points:
    13,667
    Credits:
    5,575
    Ratings:
    +6,696 / 297 / -173
    This Hamill interview has me worried that they took Luke WAAAAY out of character. Hopefully his mini-arc will have old Luke return by the end of 8 or in Episode 9.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Posts:
    6,074
    Likes Received:
    9,089
    Trophy Points:
    144,614
    Credits:
    10,159
    Ratings:
    +17,697 / 314 / -187
    .
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. perrymoon

    perrymoon Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Posts:
    393
    Likes Received:
    656
    Trophy Points:
    4,562
    Credits:
    2,673
    Ratings:
    +1,012 / 61 / -23
    I buy that! Every few times there was 1 character showing some emotion in the prequels, 10 jedis showed up asking for emotional moderation.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  13. dewi

    dewi Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2017
    Posts:
    133
    Likes Received:
    1,219
    Trophy Points:
    7,242
    Credits:
    1,193
    Ratings:
    +1,325 / 5 / -1
    This got me yesterday...

    OB1: "Reach out with your feelings."
    LUKE: "Y'know I could feel something, I could almost see the remote."

    Rey could be the unexplained Neo to the Force. Like Luke, can 'see the Force'. #GoRey
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Funny Funny x 1
  14. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Posts:
    1,196
    Likes Received:
    1,950
    Trophy Points:
    6,717
    Credits:
    3,031
    Ratings:
    +3,037 / 29 / -5
    I've been probably too laud elsewhere about the Grey stuff, Bendu etc...
    So I'll only say here that - watching Rebels and reading the Journal quote in its itegrity - I don't think
    there's a grey use of the Force or more than everything that there is a Grey "side" of the Force.
    I think people are messing up with words and plot lines.

    However, as many have pointed put here, I agree this ST will better explain what balance is.
    But I think we have to start from what know for sure:
    The Chosen One is not an usual Force sensitive being.
    So much so, he's prophesied.
    He's prophesied as the one that have to bring balance again.
    He's special because balance is special.

    To use a metaphore, let's say that Force = Nature.
    In nature, you've got life and death, but them both are needed to allow life to existe.
    You've got the sun and the photosynthesis but you've also got vulcanic eruptions.
    They destroy everything, but later on those places affetced by the eruptions will be the most fertile.
    In this sense the Nature is in balance.
    Same as the force.

    Now, the way I see it is that the Jedi accept and serve the Balance.
    They are passive.
    Because they know that everything leads to... life. That the Force itself leads to it.
    They accept their own death, their own fates and those of the ones they care for.
    They only fight (or should fight), those that interfere (and for defence).
    And they always do it keeping a certain attitude.

    Sith or Dark User not. They use their power to manipulate for their personal purposes what surround them.
    In doing so, they disturbe the Balance.

    That's why I cannot see a good use of the dark side. Or something in between.

    Balance is not between Light Side "use" and Dark Side "use" of the Force.
    Balance is the Force itself, following its own path or will, without interferences.

    Balance is a cosmic force too much bigger to be reduced in the actions of usual force sensitive people.
    It takes the all galaxy or... the Chosen One.

    If so, who is Rey?
    Is she someone came to complete the prophecy? Much like Luke did in the OT, redeeming Vader?
    She may be that. Regardless who her true parents are (she may be or not Anakin's blood)
    Is she someone came to help Luke starting a new Jedi Order?
    She may be that too.
    Because, yes, Luke tried but there was a threat hidden in the UR.
    = the dark users were still around.
    = there wasn't balance.

    And given everything that came from the Aftermath serie, that threat - somehow - has been around since the PT time.

    Many say that this conflict Lght Users/Dark Users has to come to an end.
    And that to reach that end both "Jedi" and "Sith" have to come to an end, definitely.
    I don't agree. And I don' think Luke does. That's what he says now, what he probably thinks is more likely to happen. What he may fear.
    Not his agenda. In fact: he did not kill himself. He did not allow someone to do it. He will train Rey.

    Dark users have to come to and end.
    And since there are no more Jedi (-> Luke is the last) a new order must be founded.

    PT-> the Sith came back and start to disturbe the Balance (that's why EP. I is called the Phantom Manace)
    Ends with the Jedi almost extinct and the Sith in full stregth. IMBALANCE
    OT-> Ends with the Jedi and the Sith (dark users) amost extinct. IMBALANCE because the dark user are still around, as we now know.
    ST-> end of them both, no more "almost".
    But since the Dark users are gone, BALANCE
    However a new Jedi Order - to serve the Force and the Balance - is founded.
    It all ends when the Phantom Manace is fully gone. Using a metaphore it ends a second before EP I begins.

    It could work like that. Without any need to change the nature of the Force, what we are used to and what made SW looks different
    than any other frachise.

    That's of course my personal point of view.
    And I may be wrong but honestly I don't see nothing till now in canon that is 100% telling us they're going into another direction.
    I guess they're building a deeper story telling and that people are "reading" things in a different direction.
    Which is intentional by the writers. They are using red herring but very carefully: they never contradict what's being told
    and stated in the last 40 years.

    However if so, if as I suspect, the ST is meant to better answer and explain what the Balance is, what the pophecy was really about
    Rey's character is far more interesting.
    And it's in line with what Colin Trevorrow said:

    “[Episode IX] is something that needs to honour a story that’s been told over a period of 40 years,” (...)
    “I don’t want to ignore any of it, and I respect all of it. It’s something I think the fan base is going to embrace.”
    “Rey is a character that is important in this universe, not just in the context of The Force Awakens, but in the entire galaxy,”
    “She deserves it. We’ll make sure that that answer is something that feels like it was something that happened a long time ago,
    far away, and we’re just telling you what happened.”
     
    #8754 lealt, Apr 20, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
  15. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,033
    Likes Received:
    13,951
    Trophy Points:
    144,267
    Credits:
    13,657
    Ratings:
    +18,832 / 303 / -95
    It seems people just don't like Jedi's. When you say you don't like what Jedi's say about self control you're actually saying is you don't like Jedi and you wish they were different. If you want Luke to change this or that about the Jedi Order what you really want him to do is not be a Jedi anymore.

    The Sith are extinct after the OT. I'd argue that the Jedi are a fundamental part of the balance of the force and that balance is now tenuous because the Jedi are so few. I'm sure the Jedi faced tons of challenges and dark force users over the course of one thousand years, but their numbers were a huge advantage in maintaining balance.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  16. Smullie_1138

    Smullie_1138 Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Posts:
    195
    Likes Received:
    429
    Trophy Points:
    2,932
    Credits:
    868
    Ratings:
    +571 / 4 / -0
    @Julius Fett
    @Shadrac
    @lealt

    I'm with you on this and agree the term "grey" recently has received a somewhat negative notion to it.

    As Luke says in the TLJ trailer, "it's so much bigger". There is so much more to the Force than just the views of the Sith and the Jedi. It's been said before the view of the Jedi has become narrow and dogmatic by the time of the PT.

    Qui-gon defied this, he's in the "so much bigger" camp if you will. And don't forget Dooku. Dooku eventually left the Order. Of course he became a Sith, but it's still interesting Dooku and Qui-Gon (master and apprentice) both shared a different view to the Jedi, albeit they both acted on this view in different ways. I really hope their story will someday be expanded upon.

    Also Palpatine wasn't completely wrong (what did I just say????) in remarking one has to understand a larger view of the Force. The problem, again, lies in how he uses this understanding i.e. being a Sith and ultimately using it for egocentric reasons.
    Just like one of the above members mentioned, when one wants to understand religion, it isn't sufficient to just pick one an stick with it. You have to have knowledge of all the other religions as well.

    Speaking of, we mustn't forget the scene in TPM, where Qui-Gon uses the Force to influence the dice and therefore freeing Anakin. I think this is something the Jedi order would frown upon, even though this action came from believing Anakin is the Chosen One.

    So again to all the nay-sayers, even if you don't like the term 'grey Jedi', try to think of what this term even means. These last few pages alone contain some great examples. Whatever the Story Group is going to call it, wether it's grey Jedi, the one in the middle, the balance, etc, considering everything regarding the Force in canon these last months/ years, this is going to be the way forward. A new understanding.

    As always, this thread is on of my favorites.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  17. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2016
    Posts:
    4,033
    Likes Received:
    13,951
    Trophy Points:
    144,267
    Credits:
    13,657
    Ratings:
    +18,832 / 303 / -95
    This is a quote from Palpatine who happens to be a Sith lord and a completely evil person in the Star Wars universe.
    It's not wise to draw conclusions from an out of context quote that might not even been the film.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 2
  18. lealt

    lealt Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2016
    Posts:
    1,196
    Likes Received:
    1,950
    Trophy Points:
    6,717
    Credits:
    3,031
    Ratings:
    +3,037 / 29 / -5
    yeah... why not? It works. I can definitelly agree. I only said that because the correct answer - I think - depends in how exactly
    Snoke backstory will played out.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 20, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 20, 2017 ---
    I swear this the last time I say it because I don't wanna bother you any further. :)
    But, it's not that I don't like the term.
    It's that I think the Grey in the JOTW has nothing to do with a (kind of) use or side of the force.
    That being in the middle is not the balance.
    Balance is a different thing from the the grey mentioned in JOTW and from Bendu.
    That's the conclusion I came to, watching Rebels and connecting all the dots. https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet....ended-and-why-bendu-never-was-the-gray.11675/

    And I guess we shall wait untill the last 5 minutes of ep. IX to fully understand the JOTW quote, thouth some clues are given.

    If so, any theory about a new kind of force, may be compelling, interesting, but... that's not what they're building.
     
  19. perrymoon

    perrymoon Rebel General

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2014
    Posts:
    393
    Likes Received:
    656
    Trophy Points:
    4,562
    Credits:
    2,673
    Ratings:
    +1,012 / 61 / -23
    First of all I was just kidding.

    Now, storywise. Why not? I would like Luke to change things. Religion changes over the years cause the world changes. Jedis have fallen over and over again. Perhaps Luke wants to try another path. I don't care if it's called jedi or another thing, because it's the force what amazes me, and keep discovering what's behind it.
     
    #8759 perrymoon, Apr 20, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  20. Smullie_1138

    Smullie_1138 Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2016
    Posts:
    195
    Likes Received:
    429
    Trophy Points:
    2,932
    Credits:
    868
    Ratings:
    +571 / 4 / -0
    @DailyPlunge
    Thanks for reacting only to the first part of that sentence ;-)

    And yes, right now it's only one line in the first trailer, but that's why they call it speculating.
    Funny .gif though, I think I'm going to borrow it and use in many random ways in whatsapp conversations hehe.

    @lealt
    I was talking about people reacting to the term grey in general, not me reacting to you personally. Sorry if you took it that way.



    All I'm trying to say is, what if there's another way? What if Luke found another way? I really don't know what that should be, but my guess is this will be addressed in ep8/9.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
Loading...

Share This Page