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Is Luke Skywalker an uber-powerful Force God in TFA?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Dark Toilet, Jan 23, 2015.

  1. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Rebel Official

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    I have seen it mentioned on almost every thread that involves Luke Skywalker that he is "the most powerful Jedi ever" (anticipating he may pull down a Star Destroyer, alter the orbit of a planet or moon, or cause some other major cataclysmic-world-destroying event) or that the big baddie of TFA must be incredibly powerful if he/she is going to match-up to Luke Skywalker. I have addressed it in passing before, but I thought a dedicated thread on the subject is warranted since I keep seeing it come up. Is Luke Skywalker really going to be some uber-powerful Force God in TFA or down the line in the ST? Personally, I hope not, and don't think it is very logical, for a few reasons...

    First, Luke's actual training in the Force shown in the OT was fairly minimal and he is supposed to be the last Jedi. So, how does he acquire all of the knowledge and training to become so powerful? He doesn't have anyone to train under and I can't imagine the counsel of Force ghosts is as helpful as actual one-on-one, Master to Padawan training. Does he seek out and find ancient holocrons? I just don't see how he can become so powerful.

    Second, and on a related note, Luke has grown up and lived in an era in which Force-users are all but completely gone and are nothing more than an ancient "religion" relegated to the status of myth or legend. The entire canon narrative after the PT suggests that the Force and its use has been dormant and is only now "awakening." To me, that doesn't jive with one all powerful Force God embodied by Luke.

    Third, the whole concept of an all powerful Force user seems to be more of a dark side concept. What good side Jedi (in canon) has ever sought to become so all powerful? It seems dealing in absolutes (power), is a Sith thing.

    Finally, and please don't flame me for saying it, but the concept of an uber powerful Force user seems to have been developed in the old, now defunct EU (and to a lesser extent in the PT and CW). We saw much more fantastic Force powers in the PT/CW era than the OT, and even more so in the EU. There are certainly a lot of people that want to see Luke use wicked, cool, not-before-seen Force powers. Are those folks more PT/CW and EU fans than OT fans? Do some of the diehard OT fans also want to see this?

    My personal preference for TFA (as an OT diehard) is that the use of the Force (at least by the good guys) remains more nuanced and subtle. For me, some of the charm of the OT was that regular people, like a common farm boy, an on-the-run princess, and a swashbuckling pirate/smuggler, could overcome huge obstacles through their friendship, loyalty, and love for each other - in my mind, the true Force energy that binds all living things together. Although others may disagree, I would rather see our old and new heroes channeling that living Force in a less fantastic way.

    But let me know what you want to see and, more importantly, if you think Luke is going to be an uber-powerful Force God, this is a forum to explain how he has developed that way and how you think he could have gotten there given the existing canon and apparently slumbering Force post ROTJ... Thanks for reading and I am looking forward to any well reasoned discussion on the topic.
     
    #1 Dark Toilet, Jan 23, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2015
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  2. Willybobo

    Willybobo BEES!

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    If anyone is going to be uber-powerful, it's the new baddie... literally codenamed "Uber." To give Luke a challenge.

    Otherwise... eh... why get out of bed if you're Luke?
     
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  3. sbs87

    sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

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    It basically always has to be that the villain is slightly more powerful than the hero until that last second when he is overcome. Otherwise we wouldn't have much of a story to watch unfold. I think Luke will have some intense force abilities but not what I would call "God-like".
     
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  4. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Rebel Official

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    I can hardly get out of bed myself... and obviously the big baddie has to be a formidable opponent. I used the "Uber" description for Luke specifically because we have heard it used as a codename for our strongest villian.

    This makes perfect sense because everybody likes to root for the apparent underdog. That trope is arguably the whole theme of the OT.

    But I'm really interested in the question of HOW Luke developed such "intense force abilities" or WHY would Luke be considered the "greatest Jedi ever"?
     
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  5. sbs87

    sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

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    I think people already look at him as a great Jedi because he brought down Vader and Palpatine. Even though he didn't do it by shear force he still was able to make that partnership collapse and they ended up defeated. Given his bloodline his potential is huge for other possibilities beyond ROTJ so I would also like to see what he is now capable of and mention how he came to these new abilities.
     
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  6. Kreetle Kris

    Kreetle Kris Rebel Official

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    The last thing I want from the new films are overpowered jedi in ridiculous, physics defying action scenes. No silly flying across rooms, somersaulting here and there just because it looks cool and dear god, no pulling star destroyers out of orbit like in a videogame.
     
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  7. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Rebel Official

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    I agree that conquering Vader/Palpatine made him a "great" Jedi, but he didn't even really use the Force to do that. However, people seem to mean he will have superpowers when they say "greatest ever." I can't argue against the bloodline potential that he has (thanks to the Midichlorians, ouch), but I too would very much like to know how he came into any new super-abilities.

    Amen. Keep it simple for me, too. Leave the superhero, superman stuff to Marvel and DC. I want Star Wars to be more "realistic" and believable... to the extent that sci-fi in a galaxy far, far away can be realistic and believable.
     
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  8. CTownDrama

    CTownDrama Clone Commander

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    I agree with most of this, I mean I do however expect some more force use and greater power than ROTJ for the simple fact of progression but as you said, pulling a stardestroyer down, I must admit I enjoyed that bit in the force unleashed but I wouldn't be too keen on seeing it done in the movies.
     
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  9. daffy72

    daffy72 Rebel Official

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    Although I don't think they will go this route what I'd LOVE to see is an older powerful broken Luke be like the older Paul Atreides from the Dune books.

    One could argue Paul was 'stronger then ever' at the end but he went mad with what he foresaw for the future. He was not willing to take the one path that would enable Humanity's survival. It was too horrible to him.
    Although his eyes had been burned out by being too close to an atomic blast, he could move as if he could see, because his prescience was so accurate. So he had amazing power, it was just subtly used.

    Anyway, that's what I'd like to see- an older Luke who has become powerful from 30 years of meditation and deep concentration, that has fled because people saw him as a sort of messiah, and haunted by what he foresees in the future because he knows there is nothing he can do to prevent it..
    Being in deep isolation looking for a solution...

    Perhaps Rey is NOT the key- but if she's turned to the Dark Side it will just make things that much worse. So he's forced to seek her out.

    If they make him a flawed and unstable character they can get away with bigger displays of power when he's occasionally lucid.

    Of course- going by new age higher magic laws, Buddhism and other mystical practices they could also go a route like that- often, as you increase in power or gain enlightenment there is less and less you actually should DO to affect your environment, because by changing things you're robbing others of lessons they need to learn to grow and as we are fallible, we can't see all the ripples our actions cause. If you just help others, they don't learn what they needed to and your good act in the end becomes a destructive one.

    I don't think its inappropriate in this case to apply spiritual precepts since the Jedi is a spiritual order.
     
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  10. ZebroGodilla

    ZebroGodilla Darklighter Ace

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    Luke as the Force King, eh? I can see it, but here's exactly how I see it. The ST is going to be more OT than PT, and it has already been mentioned the duels are intended to be a combination of OT+ PT, with raw power and speed, nuanced, simple, so basically like poetry in motion, with key moments. So I'm gonna go on a limb here, and say Luke is Mr. Hermit, with a small following of Force users and padawans. His powers have not been "awakened" just yet either, but once the blood of the Skywalker is rejuvenated from the awakening, he has crazy amazing powers, but not just light side powers and all. You see, Luke is in all truth what Qui-Gonn was - a Gray Jedi, or more importantly, a true Force user. Yes, we have Jedi vs. Sith and we always will, but what Jedi force chokes Gammoreans with a twist of his fingers? And in the very next scene uses a Force mind trick and doesn't revert to violence? So theoretically, or Sithcaliber baddie, Kylo Ren, is simply a misguided Gray Jedi like Luke, who is seduced by trying to do the right thing by a Sith. So no, Luke isn't a Force god, but then again, he has huge potential to be. And for those fearful of a omnipotent figure for the light side, Luke isn't gonna be one - he's simply gonna be what Anakin could have been if he were not seduced, though not at the same exact level. So yes, powerful, but not before the awakening. Allows both OT heroes and ST heroes to step up as well.
     
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  11. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Rebel Official

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    I totally agree with this view that the more you understand the Force (and thereby more powerful you are?), the less you actually do. It fits nicely with how Luke resolved the ultimate confrontation with Emperor Palpatine by throwing down his weapon and refusing to fight any more. Also, the OT Yoda was more of a pacifist than he was in the PT, as I'd like to think even he learned from the experience...

    I also like the Gray Jedi idea for Luke... with newly developing, increased powers, rather than already being the Uber Jedi. After all, there is no further character development with him already being the "Force King" as you described it. Although, this being a passing of the torch, I suppose that character development arc will likely reside with the new heroes rather than the old...

    Does anybody think that at the beginning of TFA, Luke will already be uber powerful? If so, how?
     
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  12. ZebroGodilla

    ZebroGodilla Darklighter Ace

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    If he's uber powerful, it's from instinct and innate talent for the Force. I mean, he bases his lightsaber on Kenobi's and creates a synthetic crystal for his lightsaber too, and manages to up his Force powers after leaving Yoda, while still also helping the Rebellion. If anything , his deep desire and some Holocrons he could probably find and all probably could make him really strong. I personally don't buy it, but it is possible
     
  13. Darth Lexor Kai

    Darth Lexor Kai General of the Future Folk
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    accept in the case of Dr. Manhattan
     
  14. thx1138

    thx1138 Clone Commander

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    I agree it wouldn't make sense for Luke to be so powerful and godlike after only basic/late training and then having no one but Force Ghosts to council him. But to play devils advocate, what if it was because he was the only Jedi left, the only force user for that matter, and the force is basically Luke's b1tch - or Luke is the only source for the Force to work through (or something of that nature.) That could explain his powers and how according to some rumors he is actually insane, seeing into the future, living in isolation etc.​
     
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  15. ZebroGodilla

    ZebroGodilla Darklighter Ace

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    That's pretty similar to my previous idea, but then would or ST heroes work with him or against him O.o
     
  16. MasterCrash

    MasterCrash Rebelscum

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    I wouldn't say Luke is going to be god-like, but he is basically going to be an old, wise Jedi master, much like Obi-Wan or 'Old Ben' in ANH. I think the rumors about Luke being an old hermit have some accuracy. Like Obi-Wan and Yoda, Luke has probably secluded himself from the rest of the world to grow stronger in the force. At most, I think he may be Yoda's 'replacement' of sorts. There is a lot of Star Wars lore about a greater force at hand, one that allows some to become immortal, and seemingly omni-powerful or 'god-like', but all of that just adds to the intriguing myth of the Star Wars universe, and I don't think it will be much more than that going forward. But even if it's unlikely Luke will be 'god-like', he is definitely going to be a much stronger and more wise and powerful force-user.
     
    #16 MasterCrash, Jan 24, 2015
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  17. Darth Plagueis and Revan

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    Luke is like the Omega man, the galaxy and all its treasures are his oyster.
    All the holocrons of coruscant for example. Palpatines libraries (probably including Plagueis')
    Morriban.

    Everything is left to him, since he is the most powerful being in the universe at the end of the OT and capable of slaying any monsters in his way.

    Such a reality was I suppose the dream of a Sith, so I'm sure the burden/responsibility came down upon him hard.
    Mortis' destruction plays a part too I guess, because, ONLY luke exists to balance the force (until his sister rises).

    What does holding this balance of good and evil do?
    Well at least he has his father to council him.
     
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  18. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    Being powerful doesn't really mean god-like. I'd say Luke is very wise, knows when to fight and be self controlled.

    He may know some more force powers even but Luke has learned quite alot I'd say since ROTJ and will be powerful in the force just not as we expect. Meaning...overconfidence and weilding around like Kylo is gonna be trying to do.
     
  19. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Sensitive

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    I hope they do not go ridiculous with Luke's power. As a kid I liked Superman but I learned something other than Kryptonite nothing hurts him. . . NOTHING (I know he now also has an issue with magic but not when I was a kid). People often talk here about it takes the tension from a story if we know the character can't die or can't be beat. I don't need to see Luke crash 2 galaxies together with his mind. The stronger a character is the more contrived the weaknesses become.
     
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  20. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

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    No. He's more like the Gandalf of the film, same with Han Solo.
     
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