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SPECULATION Is Snoke the last Jedi?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Darth Arthritus, Feb 5, 2017.

  1. Darth Arthritus

    Darth Arthritus Rebel Commander

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    I have not seen this theory elsewhere, so I'm going to throw my hat in the ring. I'm frustrated because I already created this thread and I lost it the second I tried posting. Oh well.

    I was thinking about the title The Last Jedi and everything that could mean. Who exactly are the Jedi? Is Luke even really a Jedi? Yoda died before he appointed him as such. What if someone survived from the old order. Even if they changed the order significantly, wouldn't that officially make them more of a Jedi than Luke and any pupils of him?

    And people keep saying Snoke refers to Luke as the last jedi. Snoke definitely does not say that. It is subtle, but Snoke says if the resistance gets the droid they will find the last Jedi. Snoke then refers to Luke in the next sentence, but could he have been talking about someone else in the previous sentence? Could he have been talking about...himself?!

    I have seen mainstream articles about Snoke being an ancient Jedi, but I don't think that's the case.

    I think Snoke is...

    ...

    Sifo-Dyas.

    I'm sure you can poke a few holes in this theory, but this is my reasoning.

    1. Whoever Snoke is, we know he saw the fall of the republic and the rise of the empire. We know he has force sensitivity and training otherwise he would have no basis to train Kylo.

    2. Sifo supposedly died in a crash. Snoke injuries, which are similar to what Anakin sustained, seem consistent with a fire and potential impact. His body was presented to Tyranus. Could he have actually survived and learned about the darkside from Dooku?

    3. Sifo had the gift of foresight, which it would seem Snoke has also.

    4. One interesting thing about Snoke is he is the "supreme leader", so one wonders how he got that title. If Snoke is the last surviving member of the Jedi order, he could technically do whatever he wanted and would be the supreme leader over the order since he is the only one. Also, Sifo is the one who ordered the clone army, so he is essentially the father of the empire just as much if not more so than Sheev. I also find it interesting that Kylo knows about and mentions the clones in a conversation with Hux.

    5. Sifo was disillusioned with the order, so deviating from what they taught is not a stretch. He knows that if Luke starts a new order that those Jedi will be more consistent with the old ways, something Snoke opposes. And thinking about Snoke's name, if Sifo was a Jedi since birth, and the Jedi gave him that name, he would probably reject it later given his disdain for them. So Snoke could be his real name, a made up name with hidden significance or none at all, or even a Sith name if he trained under Dooku.

    6. In a potential easter egg, the only time we see Sifo is in the Clone Wars as a HOLOGRAM (I know it wasn't really him), and he uses a line of dialog that is also used by Snoke:

    "We shall see."

    I feel like I'm missing some points, but that's the idea.

    I'm sure there will be counter points, but I feel like I can address them in a manner that will make sense of this theory, whether or not its actually right.
     
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  2. Starchaser

    Starchaser Guest

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    This is an interesting theory.....But I'm willing to bet 10 years of my life that Snoke is not and never was a Jedi. Also, Snoke is just Snoke, we've never seen him before, it has been confirmed many times.
     
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  3. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Coramoor

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    I'm confused as to why there's any question about the identity of the last Jedi. Luke is called the last Jedi in the opening crawl and Snoke calls Luke the last Jedi in the movie.

    It takes some mental gymnastics to argue that the last Jedi in Snoke's quote isn't Luke. The movie is about map leading to Luke Skywalker.
     
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  4. Darth Arthritus

    Darth Arthritus Rebel Commander

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    Leia is also refered to as "he" when she is dressed as Boush and holding a thermal detonator. It is a matter of perspective. From a certain point of view, Luke is the last jedi, but I brought up all of the reasons why he might not be or why someone else could also be considered the last jedi. So if you don't understand, I suggest you reread my original post.

    Snoke never refers to Luke as the last Jedi, but again, this is already addressed in my original post, and the quote illustrates it. Does Luke know of Snoke's location? Could he lead the resistance to the last jedi? Why would Luke do something when found by the resistance that he is unwilling to do on his own? Did Snoke send Kylo to kill Luke's new order? If the resistance kills Snoke, there is basically nothing stopping Luke from restarting the order. Snoke seems weak, like he is vulnerable to attack, and him communicating via hologram from and undisclosed location supports that.

    I know its a little stretch, but an interesting idea for what its worth.
     
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  5. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I'd find it hilarious if the Sifo-Dyas story is wrapped up 15 years after AOTC....the amount of posts I wrote about that guy!

    Snoke might've once been a Jedi. It's possible. And although "the last Jedi" is Luke, it could also be possible that the title somewhat refers to someone who viewed themselves once as a Jedi in some way - before they moved completely towards the light.

    But I doubt he is Sifo-Dyas.
    Unless, Sifo-Dyas was actually Plagueis in disguise who is Snoke....:confused:
     
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  6. Count...your toes

    Count...your toes Rebel General

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  7. Darth Arthritus

    Darth Arthritus Rebel Commander

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    Well, to me, good reasons for a wrong theory are better than bad reasons for a correct theory, or no reasons at all ;).

    Part of it is it is just fun to speculate possibilities even though probably wrong, and part of it is wishful thinking that this story has more depth to it that TFA and that "The Last Jedi" refers to more than just Luke or possibly Rey. To me that is so weak and one dimensional especially when you compare that to all the things that Return of the Jedi stands for, and would give some differentiation from the OT.
     
  8. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    Nope, I think it's a clear but also deeper reference to Luke: he was TLJ before, and will be forever (they will cease to exist and a grey Order will rise, likely gaining other new members in the Force due to the awakening in TFA).

    Still have Snoke down as Gallius Rax or Plagueis, with strong arguments for both; to those who argue that "Snoke should just be Snoke and a new character", that's not a good idea; the ST will fail to have any urgency if Snoke isn't somehow stronger than the last Big Bad, Palpatine, and Plagueis and Gallius can make claim to being overarching/continuously arching villains.
     
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  9. Darth Arthritus

    Darth Arthritus Rebel Commander

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    You haven't seen the movie, or even a trailer yet, so how is anything clear? Speculation and discussion is all we have right now because there is not enough evidence for anything to be "clear". At this point the things that aren't clear are just as possible as the things that may seem clear.

    The reference of "The Last Jedi" to Luke is not an exclusive idea, the title can easily refer to him and be more than that. I'm not arguing what will be, I am arguing what is possible. Just like Return of the Jedi refers to Luke in a variety of ways and refers to Anakin returning to the light side of the force, a concept likely not obvious before the first trailer came out.

    And I think about it this way too: I like the idea of "grey" force users, but would they be anything more than just Jedi with less ridged morals or expectations? If you're gonna muddy the waters, then muddy the waters. Because there is more than one shade of grey ;). To me, Snoke laying claim to the Jedi order and restructuring it to his own, darker standards is interesting. It also challenges what being a Jedi really means, which fits with making the Force more ambiguous than light vs dark.

    But the other point is giving Snoke a relevant back story that fits with the overall story of the trilogy and gives significant motivations for his actions. To have a Jedi from the old order (that does not identify as Jedi or Sith), that deviates from their teachings and opposes Luke's version of the order is interesting to me.
     
  10. B99

    B99 Rebel General

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    All this speculation is silly and pointless imo.. Yes, There may be a bigger or deeper explanation to TLJ, but LUKE Is the freakin last Jedi..

    "When gone am I, the last of the jedi will you be.." - Yoda (ROTJ)
    "The droid will soon be delivered to the Resistance. Leading them to the last jedi" - Snoke (TFA)

    But nope. Its' not obvious enough..
     
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  11. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

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    Great points, and I didn't mean to seem to absolute in my conclusions, so I must apologise.

    You did actually just give me some ideas, though. Personally, at this point I believe Snoke to be one of three characters: a fallen Whill (the one who found the secret to immortality), Plagueis (making him the over-arching villain of the saga) or Gallius Rax (Palpatine's more-or-less adopted son).

    I believe that the ST is aiming to establish an Order unlike the Jedi or Sith, one devoted entirely to the Force.

    To quote the Journal of the Whills (7:477):
    First comes the day
    Then comes the night. (PT - fall)
    After the darkness
    Shines through the light. (OT - return)
    The difference, they say,
    Is only made right
    By the resolving of gray
    Through refined Jedi sight. (ST - balancing the Force?)

    That, taken from George Lucas' early works in creating SW, was recently recanonised due to its inclusion in the TFA novelisation. The Star Wars journey, as you may well know, was to be written and told by these superior beings - Whills. The idea that came to me whilst reading your post is that Snoke may not be a Jedi, but he could be a Whill, and he may attempt to "resolve the gray" (that being Kylo in his instance, and Rey in Luke's) regardless of his faction.
     
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  12. Darth Arthritus

    Darth Arthritus Rebel Commander

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    Well lets just close down the site if speculation and discussion is pointless. What is wrong with you guys??

    I guess that means it's clear Leia is actually a man because 3PO says "He's holding thermal detonator".

    I guess that means Anakin and Vader are separate people because Obi-Wan says Vader killed Anakin.

    I guess that means Luke never went back to Tatooine because he said he was never going back.

    I guess that means Yoda never trained Luke because Yoda said Luke was too old to begin the training.

    But reread my original post, essentially everything that is being challenged is already addressed there.

    Context people...context.

    Do I need to explain all the reasons Yoda have could have been wrong, or partly wrong? The future is always in motion, Yoda doesn't know EVERYTHING, and Disney has already done a LOT of retconing. And Yoda says Luke will be the last Jedi even though he wasn't even a Jedi yet by Yoda's own explaination and Yoda did not know whether Luke would even confront Vader, kill him, or be killed by him. So you are saying it is completely clear and 1000% impossible that any Jedi survived from the old order without Yoda knowing. That would be a mistake to make that claim, it is certainly possible.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2017 ---
    No need to appologize, thanks for the response. I'm afraid I come off a little strong sometimes, but that's the problem when typing contains no tone and you are a sarcastic and straight forward person in the first place :)
     
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  13. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Yeah I agree, they can't just keep inventing new characters without having old characters and stories too otherwise audiences could get alienated and it wouldn't be as much fun.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 7, 2017, Original Post Date: Feb 7, 2017 ---
    The force was balanced but Anakin in ROTJ.
     
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  14. Count...your toes

    Count...your toes Rebel General

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    Hey, word yo, sometimes it's a lot of fun to just ask questions, nerd out, and speculate

    Much love

    Peace
     
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