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Is Star Wars about the Galaxy, or the Force (to you)?

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by cawatrooper, May 10, 2022.

?

What is Star Wars, to you... (if you had to choose?)

  1. It's a story about the galaxy and its people.

    2 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. It's a story about the Jedi, and the mystical elements of the Force.

    5 vote(s)
    71.4%
  1. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    In thinking about my disappointment in Episode IX, I think part of what is so frustrating to me is how I was hoping to see so much more about the galaxy rising against the First Order... and instead, that was basically relegated to a brief 15 second montage of ships arriving at Exegol and other stuff Lando did offscreen, while the main plot of the movie was more about vague pseudo-spiritual Force User stuff.

    Which, I think in a way, is kind of the crux of Star Wars. We even see Han discussing a similar topic briefly with Kenobi in A New Hope.

    Obviously the Rise of Skywalker is what I'd consider a bad example of a force-centric story, but I DO think they can certainly be done.

    So, what is it to you? Is Star Wars more about the people of the galaxy- scoundrels, soldiers, starships, citizens? Or is it about the Force, the Jedi, the mystical aspects? No fence sitting, you have to choose! ;)
     
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  2. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Maybe this counts as fence sitting, but I see them as expressions of the same thing. Star Wars is all about competing extremes of positive and negative and the balance found between them.

    The galaxy, as a society, is at war with itself. The Force, as a spirituality, is at war with itself. The Skywalkers, as a family, are at war with themselves. Our heroes and villains, as individuals, are at war with themselves. At every level, all the players are dealing with that same push/pull struggle to find some version of harmony. Which is what we ourselves are also all doing in our own daily lives: split between acting out of our best and worst natures.

    When Star Wars really sings, in my opinion, it’s treating all these layers as equally important and showing how they’re all inseparable and interdependent - a symbiont circle. Yeah, I agree that TROS underserves the social element. But really I think that’s true of the ST as a whole. It doesn’t make that significant effort to relate what’s happening at the broader macro view to what’s happening at the more immediate micro view.

    Rey’s journey to becoming self-actualized is also the galaxy’s journey. As she conquers her fears and doubts, so too does the galaxy. But while we’re treated to an understanding of how Rey gets to each step in that personal journey, we don’t really have that parallel for the galaxy. The people were scared to act because they thought they were alone. But then they realized they weren’t . . . . . . . the end.

    Anyway, all of that dimwitted brattling to say “force-centric” since that’s the bridge-point between those two layers: the individual and the society. It can all be reduced down to ‘light versus dark’, ‘hope versus despair’. It’s the bonding element that holds it all together.
     
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  3. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Rebelscum

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    For me, it was about the Skywalkers. And Han.:rolleyes:
     
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  4. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Why not both? I mean, Star Wars was about a small band of nerf herders; with a space monk wizard, who took on big nasty for the sake of walking carpets and walrus men everywhere.
     
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  5. Sheddai_Lightkeeper

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    Spiritual/psychological:
    Inner light side in consciousness: Jedi (luke)(artoo)(yoda ghost)(obi-wan ghost) Luke Sky walker, your inner spiritual sun. (blue) (green)
    Inner dark side in consciousness: Sith (emperor)(dark)(vicious)Live in the collective unconscious ready to rise inside of you.


    Material world:
    Outer light side in world: Republic (padme) Rebellion (leia) Resistance, Leia the moonlight trying to bring that sunlight into the world if shorty shows up to get her out of the new moon, and if she can get unchained from a giant space booger who makes her dress in skimpy outfits.
    Outer dark side in world: Empire (pwned) Dark moon (death star)(stormtrooper)(stormy 2)(stormy 3)(phasma)(tie)


    Both.
     
  6. DeeRush

    DeeRush Clone

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    Both.
     
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  7. madcatwoman17

    madcatwoman17 Rebelscum

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    As a kid, if there was one thing that stood out for me with the OT it was how the hero discovered that the villain was actually his father. I remember some years back Empire magazine had a top 100 plot twists you never saw coming - and the 'I am your father' scene topped the lot. These days it could never happen as the internet is always leaking stuff, but it was one heck of a shock.

    Ultimately the OT began as a fun filled 'guys in white hats, guys in black hats' romp...but turned out to be anything but. The PT cemented the fact that hate, fear and anger are in all of us and the best can fall - often for very human reasons. The PT for me also showed the Jedi in a less than sympathetic light, which I actually liked. In real life there is no such thing as pure evil and pure good, and that to me was the message I took away from the OT and PT.

    I (perhaps foolishly) believed that the ST trilogy was going to address the flaws in the Jedi and that being a 'darksider' didn't necessarily make you a 'bad guy'...I think Johnson had that idea, because his film was full of shades of grey. He had Adam Driver play Kylo at his most human. He had the 'idealistic' Rey show more of the 'darker' traits we had seen in TFA. He had DJ show Finn that the Resistance bought their weapons from the same suppliers as the FO. And then of course there was the 'yin and yang' images in the cave on Acht To and a lightsider and a darksider fighting side by side together - it seemed to practically yell that the future was a different kind of Order without the hate and selfishness of the Sith and - let's face it, the inhuman dispassion of the Jedi. The Christian church had to evolve and accept gay and women priests, just as the Jedi needed to stop forcing their followers into the cloistered life of space monks. I particularly liked how when Rey reached for the legacy sabre, it split rather than go immediately to her as it did in TFA, as if the rebuilding of the sabre would mirror the eventual coming together of a darksider with light - Ben Solo - and a lightsider with dark - Rey.

    TROS disappointed me on many levels but the biggest disappointment next to Ben Solo's fate was that at the end of the entire Skywalker saga....nothing really had changed. Apart from the heroes all gone and their bloodline with them. As a result to me the only thing the ST achieved was wiping out Lucas's characters.
     
  8. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

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    Both.
     
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  9. DarthSnow

    DarthSnow Sith in the North
    Staff Member

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    I don't think I'm ready to answer fully just yet, but I want to start with an observation and see if I can work an answer out of that.

    I was entirely psyched that the BoBF was going to be the first SW project without any force users, Jedi or Sith, Imperial or Rebels, etc. It was going to be an isolated adventure in the GFFA. A few episodes in I was more convinced of this than ever, of course until BoBF S1 turned into Mando S2.5.

    And I don't mind that, not at all. I really liked BoBF. But the world didn't, not until Luke and Grogu entered the picture. And maybe that's all we need to know, on what makes Star Wars well, Star Wars. Without the Jedi, Sith, and the Force stuff, what are we invested in? Another futuristic dystopian society? That's way too pessimistic of a thought for me but it has been something I've been tossing around in my head recently.

    It does all work together, the state of the galaxy and the Force. But without the Force, the galaxy would be much, much different.
     
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  10. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    There are two different questions going on here. One is "what is Star Wars to you?" The other is "Between these two choices, which is Star Wars more about?"
    The answer to the former changes over time. As a kid, Star Wars was just that - Star Wars. It was a series of movies I enjoyed with my dad before the OT, my friends with the PT, and as a reader and comicbook fan all throughout my life. As I got older, and when I discovered ASOIAF and The Wheel of Time (but had yet to read it) and truly dove into epic sagas, I started to feel as though Star Wars was the next, big, epic saga that could encapsulate our culture and values at their best. That thinking lead to a lot of disillusionment. Nowadays, I'm not sure what Star Wars is to me.

    The second question I can't answer either. It's both because one can't live without the other. Star Wars can't just be about mystical forces, or else there'd be nothing to ground it. But it's not just about people in a galaxy far far away, because then it wouldn't move us like it does. It's about how the mystical forces move in people, who then shape the world around them, I guess. Or maybe I'm wrong.
     
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  11. DeeRush

    DeeRush Clone

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    I would say both, but I think it's more about the Force than about the galaxy.
     
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  12. Angelman

    Angelman Servant of the Whills -- Slave to the Muses
    1030th Grand Admiral ***** (Mod)

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    For me, it's about the people first. Without it being about the people, the Force stuff has no context or stakes, and it's all just super heroes/villains smacking one another with laser swords. No, peoples and cultures and peace in the galaxy is what its all about.
     
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