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Is The Last Jedi about the experience of enjoyment being a necessary precursor to self-awareness?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Trokanmariel, Dec 24, 2017.

  1. Trokanmariel

    Trokanmariel Clone Trooper

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    In The Last Jedi, is the theme or motif that self-awareness is created by the experience of enjoyment - that enjoyment has to happen before self-awareness happens?
     
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  2. Migatte no gokui

    Migatte no gokui Rebelscum

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    Self awareness requires thoughts to some extent
    Enjoyment doesn't, it just is
    People wanted to be guided by the movie, instead they had something that just "was", from which they could take whatever they want. Like life.
    Where JJ told people when to cry or when to be happy, Rian lets some space for freedom of emotions.

    I don't know if I'm off topic and didn't get you at all or if it is something like that
     
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  3. Trokanmariel

    Trokanmariel Clone Trooper

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    The pattern in TLJ is impulse - Poe's impulse, Luke's impulse in the flashbacks, Rose's impulse on Canto Bight
     
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  4. Migatte no gokui

    Migatte no gokui Rebelscum

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    Gotcha, then it's not so far from what I was pointing out (well maybe the philosophy of it in a sense)
    You're right, the characters all act on impulse which I found to be interesting. It makes them seem more "honest" I think, like real people.
     
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  5. Hunin

    Hunin Rebel General

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    I do think that the truth of your observation plays a large part in some of the negative reactions we are seeing.
    To portray what are, in memory, purely mythological characters in that manner is unavoidably to profane them.
    I hope JJ doesn't drop that particular ball more than anything else.
     
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  6. Trokanmariel

    Trokanmariel Clone Trooper

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    It is a real pattern, because there are too many characters who can be associated with the same idea. The actual idea itself is reminiscent of Tom Ford's Nocturnal Animals, in terms of the sharpness of the idea. Nocturnal Animals and The Last Jedi are neck and neck when it comes to intellect
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2017 ---
    That's what I find very ironic: virtually all of the internet backlash to TLJ is about Luke Skywalker, and yet Luke's treatment in TLJ is part of the metaphor. It's possible that all or most of the critics are simply oblivious to the motif of the film
     
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  7. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    Can you elaborate on this concept? What does enjoyment/impulse leads to self awareness mean exactly? How is it different from the failure is one of the greatest teachers idea?
     
  8. Trokanmariel

    Trokanmariel Clone Trooper

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    Self-awareness is judgement. Impulse is the absence of thought. Thought can't be before the absence of thought, and that's what TLJ is dealing in: the paradox that while judgement is sane, sanity has no choice but to be dependent on insanity.

    Being dependent on insanity makes insanity immune from criticism, which makes the immunity from criticism the creator of criticism.

    Criticism is value - the protection from value creates value.

    For value to be correct, value has to be something which is a weapon.

    Rey is a value: Luke has to protect himself from Rey
    Poe is a value: Poe becomes violent towards the resistance
    Finn is a value: Rose has to attack Finn
    Kylo Ren is a value: Rey has to protect herself from Kylo
    Rose is a value: Rose becomes volatile on Canto Bight
    Leia is a value: Poe has to be attacked by Leia

    The theme in TLJ is that a value is a literal source of violence

    Overall, the message of TLJ is potentially that value is true, but because of the desire of value to be treated as value the consequence is that value has to be violent towards itself - Nocturnal Animals can be interpreted the exact same way, with respect to the fates of Laura and India Hastings.

    Nocturnal Animals is a mirror image to The Last Jedi - and it won't be a coincidence that both films revolve around the colour red

    Either TLJ or Nocturnal Animals could be the greatest movie of all time - either one of them or Alien Covenant, which is easily the best in the Alien series
     
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  9. Aglarion

    Aglarion Force Sensitive

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    Thank you, that was an interesting read, may I ask what philosophy inspired your thoughts about this?

    To be honest I can't agree or disagree with your interpretation of the movie since I mostly disagree with your initial conceptual premises and conclusions.

    I guess I probably disagree since I thought that alien covenant was not only a disgraceful chapter in the Alien series but also one of the worst movies I have seen.
     
  10. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    I find your belief system fascinating....
     
  11. Trokanmariel

    Trokanmariel Clone Trooper

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    If the pattern is present, then I'll expose the pattern. It's to the credit of TLJ that it has many patterns that can be detected - another example being the idea that reality needs to help identical versions of itself to be the same style of co-existence; it's just a shame that the original trilogy doesn't lend itself to the same depth of analysis

    When it comes to Alien Covenant, I have the opposite opinion: Aliens was a disgrace to the series, and Alien Covenant has rectified the abuses of that film
    --- Double Post Merged, Dec 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 24, 2017 ---
    Thank you; what's your own perception of the film?
     
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