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Is the PT really all that bad?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by rvtv, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I couldn't disagree more.
    A small preface: The movies are made for kids. Flat out, no exceptions. Star Wars is for children but can also be enjoyed by adults, like all good children films should be. They can handle heavy themes because they put them over a fantastical setting rather than a grim-real-world motif.
    Spielberg basically made his legacy from 1980-93 on this, children's movies that adults can love and admire. I think this is important to understanding how each series has catered to the different generations.

    Kids differ generation to generation. What kids liked in 1977, kids in 1999 didn't like. What kids liked in 1999, they don't like in 2019.
    It's just different. The humor is different. The tone is different. The technology is different. The world is different.

    Take toys for example. I grew up in the 80s and 90s. I had all the toys. Loved toys. My cousin? Growing up now? At an age where I had enough action figures to practically recreate any scene from Star Wars, he doesn't own one that I know of. His friends really don't either. It's all about digital content. Why play with toys when I can watch someone take them out of the box on YouTube!!!!

    War movies before the Vietnam War were almost entirely jingoistic pro-America films. After the Korean War and subsequent Vietnam War, that changed drastically and the number of explicitly anti-war films grew in huge waves. From MASH to Platoon. Movies began to showcase war as a horror rather than an act of honor as a lot of the post WW2 "Golden Era" Hollywood films did.

    Star Wars reflects that as well.

    Almost all art reflects the generation in which it is made and specifically the consumer target group.
    The 60's & 70's were a time of conflict and strife in America. There was massive distrust of the government and disillusionment was everywhere. *AHEM*
    The 80's & 90's were a time of general "peace" and prosperity in America. But there were always underlying concerns and issues. *AHEM*
    The 00's & 10's are a time of conflict and strife in America. There is massive distrust and a previously thought dead ideological group has re-emerged and has a strange sense of power for an inexplicable reason. *AHEM*

    On top of all this, is just the nature of movies like this. They will almost always grab little kids more. It's most of their first Star Wars so the movies will naturally cater to them more. The humor in TLJ is truly hit or miss for me but it's almost all hits for my younger cousins. Because it's what they find funny now. They don't have these weird biases on what is or isn't Star Wars humor. As if a universe like Star Wars can have only one sense of humor.
    The humor in the PT was incredibly sophomoric at times, more so than any other entries in the series. Especially in TPM.
    But then again, Adam Sandler was huge in the 90's. So was Dumb and Dumber. There's Something About Mary. Austin Powers. South Park had just exploded onto the seen. That was kind of the vibe of comedy in movies then. I'm not stating this as good or bad but rather just as an observation.

    And most importantly. Kids aren't the ones who hate the new Star Wars movies. It's adults. Just like kids liked the PT and adults hated it.
    Adults have insane levels of baggage kids don't have.
    Anyways, rant over. Maybe I'm wrong. Just feels like these movies seem to follow trends...
     
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  2. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    Yeah, RIGHT before. Although his position seemed to change depending on what day of the week you asked him, his “official” line before that point was that he’d never written anything beyond ROTJ. He’d never even thought about it. That there would NEVER be more episodes beyond that point. That was THE end as far as he was concerned.

    I’m sure that’s not actually true. Heck, Mark Hamill has anecdotal stories about George’s sequel ideas back in the 80s. From the creator’s own mouth though, for many years, Episode 6 was the unquestioned completion of his saga.
     
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  3. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Really? Burning Anakin at the end of ROTS is made for kids? You realize the movies since 2005 are PG-13? Let me know what kids movies have someone burning up in lava while losing all of their limbs, while his wife dies giving birth? Kids can watch the movies (as we all did) but please stop this narrative they are made for kids, cause there are some graphic scenes in there that really aren't made for kids.

    Edit: And I forgot about Dooku getting beheaded at the beginning of the movie as I'm sure little kids love stuff like that!
     
    #283 Jedi77-83, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
  4. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    No, not right before.
    In all honesty, through the decades of interviews, I feel that it's pretty clear that he has always been working on 7 through 9, and just considered a vast difference between "working on it" meaning production and not "working on it" meaning, "creative process on my own".

    He pretty much had ambitions for the sequel trilogy right away. All the way back in the 80's he was already talking to the cast about coming back for more, but decided that it was a bad idea because technology wasn't good enough for what he wanted.
    He said more than once, that I remember at least, that he wasn't going to make another Star Wars until the technology had evolved to support what he wanted to do.

    It finally did, mostly thanks to Lucas pushing it through ILM and Lucasfilm, and that's when he did the PT. Considering what story he wanted to tell for 7 through 9, a story that is much closer to his original tangent all the way back to the second draft of A New Hope which was originally titled, Adventures of the Starkiller as taken from the Journal of the Whills, Saga I: The Star Wars, it makes sense to first refocus the story by moving over to the PT and giving the context and building the chiastic structure that he would then go on to employ in the unfolding of the revelation trilogy that he was more of the mind for the ST.

    Star Wars, to Lucas, is not what it is to the fans. It never has been. There's always been a whole world of crap, a very religious world, going on in Lucas' head that circles around this massive metanarrative that is far outside what everyone thinks the OT was about, or what even folks thought the PT was about.

    That's not me saying that; Lucas has repeatedly stated that mostly no one has any idea what Star Wars is about because he doesn't talk about it, and that it's not about what people think it is most of the time.

    So, yeah, Arndt did a treatment in 2012 of what Lucas had in mind. But it's not like Lucas didn't have it in mind.

    The Star Wars that Lucas intended from the beginning, never actually made it out.
    The closest you have for film was the PT; that's about as close as it got, and the only two parts of that which tickle at his original ideas of the Journal of Whills was the midichlorians and the immaculate conception.

    The OT, in many ways, was anything but what Lucas had wanted. It was, but not really. It was very much, to him, the surface layer that was the consequence of the real story going on "behind it all"; the story that he chopped out.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 27, 2019 ---
    It would be a very different thing that what we, as a culture, have come to understand as Star Wars.

    I think that's the major issue with Lucas in general. He's not wrong...I mean, obviously, it's his creation. If anyone's wrong it's the audience.
    However, his creation has gotten so ingrained into American society that the identity of what Star Wars is has become stamped right into it, and that identity doesn't include this hi-sci-fi pseudoreligious exposition of external deistic forces of cosmic nature manipulating humanity like puppets to destinies befitting the benefit of the universe according to the deities, all through the puppet strings of the Force which connects to hooks in the humans called midichlorians.

    I can't think of a more counter-cultural story than that for the classic "American Ideal" of individualism and self-will.
    A BIG moment that a lot of people connect to in the OT is Luke deciding to not turn dark and to instead remain true to his good nature by the force of his own will.

    If you toss in the Whills basically piloting people through the Force, then three things happen:
    1. All of these great moments that appeared to be personal will and empowerments, like even Vader deciding to turn back to the good at the expense of his own life, STOP being free will choices of individualist empowerment.
    2. No one is responsible for their terrible or great decisions. Anakin's not to blame because he was piloted by the Whills, one can argue. And Luke isn't amazing because he's piloted by the Whills. In fact, it makes Anakin and Luke turn into nothing much more than an electron and a positron that the Whills needed to generate so that they could collide them together to get the byproduct that they needed from that pair annihilation process; or rather the process to get to it.
    3. Every Force user suddenly stops being this amazing marvel of awe, and suddenly is this sucker that hasn't any choice but to be drug around by a deistic collective and fooled constantly into thinking that they have anything to do with their own choices, and suddenly every character like Han Solo who doesn't have any midichlorian count worth a damn seems like a real champ and attractive option because at least their available free will is greater than any of these Force wielding...no, Force owned people.
    It's a really cool idea, it really is.
    Just....not for what Star Wars has become.

    You'd really have to start entirely from scratch and do it all again to go that route. Trying to knee-jerk the story into that direction at this point....lol. Boy, you think people are pissed over TLJ?
    Jesus...imagine what would happen if Lucas, through film, told fans that Luke has been on cosmic auto-pilot this whole time?


    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  5. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    You can't compare the PT/ST planning with the OT simply because Lucas didn't know if he was going to make any sequels. ANH (1977) is a standalone movie, that was made with an ending that could have sequels (Vader doesn't die). He didn't even know if he wasn't going to make a Part 3 when shooting ESB simply because he was self-financing it, and SW would be dead if the movie bombed.

    The PT & ST were a Trilogy before they started writing them, so they knew there would be a 3 part arc. It is amazing the OT came out with a nice arc cause Lucas was writing them on the fly. As for Disney ST, they maybe using Lucas ideas, but my biggest beef is there is no overall arc in this Trilogy, or even macro point to it. The PT was written with a Macro Arc of the Empire/Emperor overthrowing the Republic/Jedi, and the Micro Arc of Anakin turning to the darkside. I honestly don't know what the Macro Arc of the ST is (there is no world building), and I don't know what the micro arc is (Possibly Rey/Kylo Ren balancing the Force). If it is about balancing the Force, they probably could have made a better Trilogy without calling them 7,8,9 and set it in a different era as that would have freed up so many story avenues that are restricted now cause it's part of the Saga.

    That is what I mean by planning, as it isn't about having every little detail written out before they started shooting (I totally understand that things change and writers/directors may do something different). I'm talking about whether the ST has an arc that gives the Trilogy a reason to be called 7,8,9 other than just using the OT characters and Ben Solo as part of their lineage. I don't see it in the first 2 movies, and I honestly don't think that JJ will be able to pull it off for Episode 9 cause he is not that type of writer. He is good at rebooting franchises, but he is yet to show me in his writing that he can pull of a Trilogy arc like he is doing now. In fairness, it isn't easy as a lot of writers in movies/TV just don't have the writing chops to pull it off.
     
  6. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    Yes.

    And so is this:
    [​IMG]

    And this:
    [​IMG]

    Kids movies used to be hardcore. Hell, ever read Hans Christian Andersen "Fairy Tales" that everyone just kept handing to their kids for a century?

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  7. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Temple of Doom was the first PG-13 movie, as they wanted to give a stark warning to parents if they bring young kids. But nice try!
     
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  8. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    Lucas didn't know what the plan was for the OT.
    He had a general gist, but had absolutely no idea where he was going until he got there.
    He had this giant world metaplot, but he didn't develop that until much later really.

    He had to turn to Kasdan to flush out just about everything beyond some vague concepts, and even at that, even in ROTJ, Kasdan, Arndt, and Marquand have all talked about the whirlwind of unknowns and last minute writing that went on in that film, and we're not talking about little things that were just putting fine points on things. The entire opening was a giant unknown for a lot of the time, and the big ESB reveal wasn't even known to Kasdan as if it was actually real or not until later on and he reminded Lucas that they should probably have someone other than Vader confirm the paternal connection because that came out of no where and no one's going to believe Vader.

    Lucas didn't even know whether Leia and Luke were lovers or siblings until half way through the writing process of ESB!

    The unplanned nature of Star Wars has repeatedly been the source of very awkward and humorous consequences.
    Lucas had an overall idea and plan as a general concept - to tell the story about humanity's relationship to the cosmic forces of the universe and our debt to the universe and society for being a living thing within it.

    Everything else was a shuffle.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  9. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Bambi's mom being shot.
    Mufasa being trampled to death.
    Batman's parents being killed.
    Superman's home planet being destroyed.
    Littlefoot's mom dying.
    Bridge to Terabithia
    Travis shoots Yeller.
    Old Dan and Little Ann vs the mountain lion.
    Watership Down.

    all the original fairy tales lol

    Yeah man. at no other point and time in children's media has violence and sadness played a role.

    And I will add, none of the violence in Star Wars is particularly graphic. Outside of the arm being lopped off in ANH or burned up Anakin. There's little to no blood squirting.

    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 27, 2019, Original Post Date: Mar 27, 2019 ---
    Firstly, Temple of Doom is PG.
    Red Dawn is the first PG-13 movie.

    The rating system, especially here in the States is absolutely stupid and arbitrary. It's a bad argument for deciding what children should or shouldn't see.
     
    #289 RoyleRancor, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  10. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    Yeah...it was a kids movie.

    Kids movies were hardcore. Star Wars is a kids movie at its core. Always has been.

    "You know, I'm really not supposed to say this, and I wasn't supposed to say it then, but you know, it's a film for 12 year olds. It was designed to be a film like mythology of, 'This is what we stand for. You're about to enter the real world. You're 12 years old. You're going to go into the big world. You're moving away from your parents being the center focus. You're probably scared; you don't know what's going to happen, and here's a little idea of some of the things you pictured - pay attention to friendships, honesty, and trust, and doing the right thing, living on the light side, avoiding the dark side.' Those are things it was meant to do." - Lucas​


    What Lucas has often said that Star Wars is not is a "Silly" kids movie. It's a kids movie; just not a silly one without weight to it.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #290 Jayson, Mar 27, 2019
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  11. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    You seem to have missed my point by a fairly comfortable margin here. Simply put: whatever you or I ‘think’ George had on his mind, he said multiple times before the buy-out that there would be no Episode 7. The six part story we got is all there is. Plain as that. If @Jedi77-83, or anyone else, wants to take the man at his word, then they’re justified in doing so. It is what was said.

    George Lucas: "I never had a story for the sequels, for the later ones." source

    George Lucas: "I've left pretty explicit instructions for there not to be any more features. There will definitely be no Episodes VII - IX. That's because there isn't any story. I mean, I never thought of anything!" source

    Logically, that claim can’t seriously be true. Certainly he had SOMETHING in his mind for what happened next, but without actual proof of such, it’s only opinion. Opinion =/= fact.

    Cheers
     
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  12. Trevor

    Trevor Protector of the Jedi
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    The VF article, despite being dated "2014" seems to be a re-print as it appears that it was written in 1998-99, and honestly, a lot of things can change in nearly two decades, and I don't personally believe that with the successes of his creation, that he didn't know the rest of the story.
     
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  13. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    Yeah, and he also said back in the 80's and 90's that he had no plans for more Star Wars films, and yet there's the PT.

    Lucas repeatedly outwardly stated that he didn't have plans when asked by media news outlets, and yet in interviews about Star Wars in general repeatedly talks of having never stopped working on it, and having always wanted to make a whole series (i.e. 1 through 9), and that he was immediately interested in 7 through 9 right away, but felt that it wasn't possible to do yet.

    This is why I said that there appears to be a difference to Lucas between the idea of a plan in terms of production plans, and creative plans.
    His answers about never having plans always, in one way of looking at it, are absolutely true at the time someone was asking, and equally true is his comments about always having intentions of writing and making the whole saga.

    Actually, according to Mark Hamill, back at the time they were shooting the OT, Lucas was even designing around the idea of a FOUR trilogy set, at least at some point - at least that was Hamill's impression.

    But we know that Lucas at least always wanted three trilogies:
    "The first script was one of six original stories I had written in the form of two trilogies. After the success of Star Wars, I added another trilogy. So now there are nine stories. The original two trilogies were conceived of as six films of which the first film was number four" - Lucas
    - Once Upon a Galaxy: A Journal of the Making of Empire Strikes Back by Alan Arnold, 1980, p. 177

    "There are essential nine films in a series of three trilogies. The first trilogy is about the young Ben Kenobi and the early life of Luke's father when Luke was a little boy. This trilogy takes place some twenty years before the second trilogy which includes Star Wars and Empire. About a year or two passes between each story of the trilogy and about twenty years pass between the trilogies. The entire saga spans about fifty-five years...After the success of Star Wars I added another trilogy but stopped there, primarily because reality took over. After all, it takes three years to prepare and make a Star Wars picture. How many years are left? So I'm still left with three trilogies of nine films...The next chapter is called "Revenge of the Jedi". It's the end of this particular trilogy, the conclusion of the conflict begun in Star Wars between Luke and Darth Vader. It resolves the situation once and for all. I won't say who survives and who doesn't, but if we are ever able to link together all three you'd find the story progresses in a very logical fashion." - Lucas
    -Once Upon a Galaxy: A Journal of the Making of Empire Strikes Back by Alan Arnold, 1980, p. 247-248

    So both things are true.
    Lucas never had an actual story written for the sequel, but he absolutely had plans, design ideas, and concepts of where he was thinking of going with it.

    He even recently disclosed a more detailed look at what his 7-9 would have been and it is very, very, very different from what we're doing now...and I don't think fans would have liked it much on the whole.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #293 Jayson, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  14. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    I’m not personally aware of any quotes where he specifically said episodes I - III would never be made. Maybe you could educate me?
    I absolutely agree. My point was that if someone chooses to view the story as complete with ROTJ, they have every right to do so as that was the very deliberate impression we were given by the only person whose opinion on the subject actually matters.

    By all indication, before the Disney deal (when sequels became inevitable), there weren’t going to be any more entries in the series. ROTJ was his selected end point. I’m sure the universe lived on in his head in some capacity, but as far as its cinematic incarnation (the version we were intended to see), the story was complete. It began with the discovery of the ‘chosen one’ and it ended with him doing what he was chosen to do.
     
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  15. eko32eko7

    eko32eko7 Clone Trooper

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    I just wanted to chime in, briefly, to support your position. I grew up on Star Wars and I have been consistently stuck by how much Lucas, apparently, respected his audience (12 year-old kids). I started watching Star Wars when I was quite young; like 6ish.

    For example, I have always appreciated the fact that Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru's remains were displayed onscreen so there was no ambiguity as to what happened. It was a harsh reality and the sort of thing lots of child oriented media would be tempted to gloss over. Did I find the scenario scary? Heck yes I did, but that's okay. Kids should find such things scary, but that doesn't mean the presence of such situation in a movie somehow indicates that movie isn't made for kids.

    George Lucas trusted me to deal with my feelings in a responsible manner. This is an approach I wish more people would take and let it influence their interaction with the young-lings.
     
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  16. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Yep. Kids should be scared. When you learn how to handle difficult things as a youth, it makes it easier to handle when you're older.
    Death, loss, fear, hate....the tenets of the dark side are the difficult topics to discuss with kids...it isn't a coincidence.
     
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  17. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    He recounted the overview of his disposition at the time in the 2004 documentary, Empire of Dreams:

    "The challenge is always trying to do something that is all-consuming with having a private life. And I had made the decision after Star Wars that I had certain goals in my private life. One was to be independent of Hollywood. The other one ultimately was to have a family. I finished Return of the Jedi; I figured that was the end of it for me. I figured that, 'Well I've done it. I've finished my trilogy.' This is what I started out to do, this is what I was determined to get finished, and it was overwhelming and difficult but fate has a way of stepping in. I ended up getting divorced right after the film, Jedi, was finished, and I was left to raise my daughter." - Lucas​

    And back in 1983, and published by the late 80's and read by fans by the late 80's and early 90's you had things like this floating around...

    "I am afraid that if I did another Star Wars movie, I'd be straying from my path. To me that would be like being seduced by the dark side, but more than anything else, I think I'd be unhappy." - Lucas.
    May, 1983 interview (book published in 1989), Icons: Intimate Portraits: The Dark Side Of Lucas, Denise Worrell, p. 174​

    Lucas, basically, swung, and ever since has, back and forth between dreading the idea of doing more Star Wars and being unable to shake the compulsion to complete the entire thing. That nagging compulsion was pretty much the only thing that ever drew him back again and again, and after the PT, with the huge impact to his time, personal life, and stress all over again just like the first time around, coupled with the fan's reactions, when it came to doing the final trilogy - as he sat down to gear up to do it, he basically said, "Screw that!"

    "Why would I make any more, when everybody yells at you all the time and says what a terrible person you are?" - Lucas
    New York Times interview, 2012​

    Actually, that's the thing...Lucas had publically stated both directions when it came to the idea of more Star Wars movies.
    In the late 70's he was talking about a prequel and a sequel trilogy, and yet after Jedi and his divorce he was found to be talking about never making any more.

    His opinion constantly changed. It wasn't that everything was done after Jedi. Not at all, Lucas made that openly public in the middle of making Empire that he had three trilogies in mind.
    After Jedi, he basically was burnt out and decided to can the whole idea of making more Star Wars films.

    THEN, after the wounds healed down the line, by the mid-90's or so, he felt back up to the task and also pressed for time with the films that were coming out; that it would soon surpass the opportunity for Star Wars to fit into the world.
    After the PT, he was yet again completely pissed off and tired of it all - he even cut off his own internet at his home!

    Then, he decided that he did actually want it to be finished, but at the last moment of pre-production, basically grabbed Kennedy (who was already on-board for the film as she always has been for anything Lucas has wanted to do) and said, to paraphrase, 'Screw it. I'm tired. I'm done. I don't want to do this. I want to sell this thing whole cloth. You do it.'

    And now? Well now he has a part of himself that regrets doing that, not because Disney is royally screwing up the saga - that's not what Lucas has talked about. He has seller's regret just because it's his "child" (his word for it) and he gave it away; he's not doing it.
    But at the same time he's openly stated that he's enjoying seeing Star Wars films for the first time as a fan.


    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #297 Jayson, Mar 27, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2019
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  18. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    No doubt that Lucas has changed his mind every few years on the Saga (12 movies than 9 movies, then 6 movies, etc), the point is the 1-6 story does make sense as a complete story.

    Everything comes full circle in ROTJ that began in TPM where The Emperor dies, Vader dies, Luke redeems him, the Rebels win, etc. If you read an outline from Gary Kurtz from the early 80’s, Lucas didn’t have Luke face off against the Emperor til Episode 9 as he goes looking for ‘the other’ in Episode 7. But Lucas wanted to end the Saga in 1983 and they compacted 7,8,9 into Episode 6.

    That is why Episode 7 is essentially a reboot because they had to develop a new villain cause The Emperor and Vader were killed in Episode 6. They had to develop new enemy organization that can goto War with the good guys.

    That why my original point this morning when I said that i finally realized the 1-6 story Lucas was telling after seeing how the ST was executed. There was no way the ST could ever totally connect with the 1-6 story the way ROTJ ended.
     
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  19. Jayson

    Jayson Rebel Official

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    Yeah, but Lucas would disagree there because he had already conceived of the story going forward.
    Kurtz' remarks actually don't line up with Lucas, in 99 at a convention, revealing that he had plans drawn up in 78 where Vader would be killed in VI, and VII Luke would continue his fight as a full Jedi, and in VIII Luke's twin sister would show up and in IX the Emperor would finally be revealed and killed.

    Even after Jedi came about, and he had time to cool off, he (not Disney) had story outlines for the final trilogy and didn't think of it as not connected to the first 6; he didn't consider Luke's story finished at this point.
    He was finished, but just not quite yet, because he had to hand off the torch, and Lucas had that built into his mind already back when writing what would become the line, "No, there is another."

    Originally it read, "Now we must find another", and then, "No...we must search for another". The first iteration because he was setting up to kill Luke off and continue on the sequel trilogy without Luke. Later he decided not to do that, but just keep the element of danger for Luke by having that line remain in as a possible and eventually lead everyone to conclude this was all about Leia, which it is, but Lucas had been thinking about how to pass it on to another era after Luke all the way back at Empire, and that cycle would be about capping off the full saga - that Luke didn't finish it off entirely, and that's because he hadn't handed the torch off and we hadn't seen him train Jedi to carry on after him. That's why Lucas' version of VII, when he got around to pre-prod with Arndt was all about Luke training up Kira and the trilogy being all about Kira as supported by Luke.

    All the way back in 1981 Lucas said that each trilogy would be a different set of characters, and that his thinking was that only the droids would carry over.

    You can even see the remains of this thought process in Yoda's line to Luke in ROTJ, "Pass on what you have learned..."
    Lucas is setting himself up an out, even while at the same time hitting one of his all-time low points emotionally and not having any interest in doing more Star Wars after ROTJ at that moment.

    And now Lucas has revealed a basic description of his ideas for 7 - 9, and basically Luke is in them through to 9, dying in 9, and the focus is on introducing the Whills and the protagonist Kira taking the helm as Luke fades to the background more and more.

    Star Wars trilogies are each self-contained.
    You can watch any of them and they are fine on their own.
    If you want to stop at ROTJ and ignore the PT; you're good.
    If you want to stop after ROTS and ignore the OT; you're good.
    If you want to start at TPM and end at ROTJ; you're good.
    If you want to keep them all; you're good.

    Lucas always (well, at least since after ANH) had the sequels in his back pocket and considered the idea that the "real" story is a story that spans three trilogies.
    It altered from stretching what we have as ROTJ spanning the entire length to compressed into the ROTJ a bit, but almost immediately equally transitioned to ideas of concluding the three trilogies with a final trilogy that was more about Luke passing on the torch as he was instructed to do by Yoda - all be it, starting out as a hermit who didn't want to train this new apprentice, but then does. That was Lucas' idea. Arndt, who wrote the treatment, is the one who decided that it would be probably better to push that idea off until 8 and not use it for 7, and that's what ended up happening.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  20. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    This is all wonderfully verbose and charmingly belabored, but ultimately, again, not addressing my point. It’s tantamount to the ‘fool me twice, shame on me’ adage. Because George is notorious for waffling on this particular point, he’s not to be taken at his word? For the years following the completion of the prequels, George was very publicly vocal about never continuing the story - adamant beyond necessity. He could have left the door open to the possibility, but intentionally chose not to.

    Maybe that was only an artefact of his mindset of the time. Maybe it was just to encourage people to stop pestering him about ‘more’. Maybe he’d always secretly planned to get back to it all along. Regardless, in the time between the OT and PT, he did not commit the same degree of effort to communicating finality to the audience.
    _______________________________________________________
    Stahl: "What if someone else, besides you, came to you and said, 'I want to make episode seven.' Could you see that happening?"
    Lucas: "No."
    Stahl: "No? Absolutely positively? You're really closing the door without any wiggle room whatsoever?"
    Lucas: "Right, there is no episode seven,"
    interview
    _______________________________________________________
    The idea of someone interpreting that sentiment as sincere is not galactically unreasonable to me. It doesn’t deserve an ‘um, actually, little do you know’ dismissive response. It’s a perfectly valid position to have. It’s what we were unambiguously told multiple times. George’s story, from his own mouth, was finished and there’d be no more.

    Now, I don’t personally happen to share that view considering quotes like the one below, but I’ll absolutely defend it as a legitimate perspective to have. It's what was said.

    George: "At first I was contemplating selling the whole thing to Fox... I'd just take my percentage and go home and never think about Star Wars again. But the truth of it is, I got captivated by the thing... And I can't help but get upset or excited when something isn't the way it's supposed to be. I can see that world. I know the way the characters live and breathe." source

    Internally, I'm sure he'll never truly be done with it. It's a part of him.
     
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