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Is the PT really all that bad?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by rvtv, Jan 25, 2018.

  1. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Jedi General

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    That's a really good way of saying it. Look at the opening scenes of Attack of the Clones, for instance. Anakin loses his lightsaber, Obi Wan casually catches it, and then admonishes him for it. At another point, Anakin says "If you'll excuse me" and jumps into the ridiculous Coruscant traffic, falling from an insane height.

    Things just feel like they don't have any weight to them, both literally and figuratively. I guess the closest we have to the Coruscant fall in the OT would be Luke jumping off after the Father reveal, and the physics in that scene are pretty wonky, but at least there was some emotion behind it- Luke was literally more willing to jump to almost certain death than to join the Empire. In AotC, what does this scene tell us? That Anakin is suicidally impulsive? Because that's far more than just recklessness.

    Another example is in the beginning of ROTS. The space battle starts off pretty cool actually (I love me that war drum opening) but the antics on the ship when rescuing the chancellor are almost Vaudevillian. People complain about the humor in TLJ, but I think the first half hour of ROTS is far more cringey.

    Disclaimer that I always make on these posts: And still, as many problems as I have with the prequels, I still love 'em for what they are.
     
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  2. Mosley909

    Mosley909 Rebel General

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    Theirs issues with them certainly, but for me theirs far more to love then hate about these films
     
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  3. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    Fans should watch Star Wars films more often. Some of them would be surprised by how many points that raise criticism in recent films are very much present in other films and no one cares about them or even are praised by them.
     
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  4. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    Yeah, it was good for the time but there other older movies that holds up better like Jurassic Park. I know they used animatronics but the CGI parts of the movie holds up 25 years later. George should of updated the CGI on the orginal bluray release but he didn't. I hope Disney does when ever they re-relase those movies, especially if they go 4k route like TLJ may get.
     
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  5. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    No one should tinker with these movies. Do you know why Toy Story's CG holds up? Not because it's better but because Toy Story is a better film. In terms of technology, Toy Story has dated (and that's absolutely fine.) People pay so much attention to VFX in the Prequels because paradoxically people pay more attention to details in films they dislike.
     
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  6. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    This right here. I agree. ROTS opening scenes was very cringe worthy. R2 annoyed the crap out of during those scenes even when I first saw it in theatres (senior year of HS). They say Rey is a Mary Stu, R2 is the orginal Gary Stu.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 26, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 26, 2018 ---
    I have to respectfully disagree. Toy Story works because it's all CGI and their art style works. The PT mixes CGI with with real people. CGI is very obvious in the PT and 4k tvs bring it out even more. I like the PT BTW. Original Tron movie still holds up and that was made in the 80s. It's painfully obvious that clone troopers are fake and not real people and it takes you out of the experience. There is no physical Clone Trooper movie prop like there is with a Stormtrooper. Also watch Obi-Wan's hand motions when he hugs Dex, its obvious that he's having to imagine the creature. The CGI in Episode 1 holds up better than than Episode 2 and 3. Comparing Toy Story to SW is comparing Apple to Oranges. Jurassic Park, The Terminator, Tron, etc is more of fair comparison.
     
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  7. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    The same principle. These films have dated in terms of CG but because they are well-told stories no one really cares. Or if you want an example from the time of the Prequels exactly, there is Lord of the Rings. There are some CG images that simply don't look that great anymore but because of the films' overall quality no one bats an eye. Also, if we really want to get into the nitty-gritty, most of the FX shots look bad because of poor compositing, which means combining real-life images with CG ones (or shots made in miniature sets, like the Geonosis arena.)
     
  8. Josh

    Josh Rebel Official

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    nah, expectations were just way too high, especially when TPM came out.

    A bad movie in my book is something like Batman and Robin or Trolls 2.
     
  9. JarJar

    JarJar Guest

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    Apart from the inconsistencies GL created through them they are not that bad.There a lots of Jedi and battles and drama.I like them very much.GL is a bad director but has a vivid imagination at least.
     
  10. garakvsneelix

    garakvsneelix Rebel Trooper

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    In my opinion, there's, when we talk about entertainment products like movies (or novels or songs), nothing like "real bad" or (on the other side) "real good". There are subjective opinions and maybe there are more people who like it than people who don't like it (or the other way around) but there can be never a situation, where somebody who says that it's a bad movie, is right and somebody who likes it, just hasn't understand that it's bad.

    Of course, there are aspects, where it is not that easy. When there are movies or books or songs with unethical content (e. g. unquestioningly racism), of course there should be a discussion about it because behind this there are much bigger topics that have got to be negotiated, but I think, this isn't the case with SW (especially since Episode VIII has ended the whole "You must have the right (Skywalker-)blood"-thing ;) )...
     
    #30 garakvsneelix, Jan 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  11. singlern05

    singlern05 Rebel General

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    Hayden Christiansen was that bad. Jar jar too. Otherwise I really like the PT. Ian McDiarmid was exceptional as was Ewan McGregor and Liam Neeson. Liked the overall story and special effects were fine for their time and don’t bother me much but obviously lessons were learned about over-reliance on CGI.
     
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  12. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    I cannot help but wonder if most people don't really want to know this. Every time this topic comes up, I noticed that a lot of people go out of their way to restate their opinion on a certain movie, TV series or episode, novel, etc., as if it was a fact. Time after time after time. I don't know. Are human beings basically incapable of even accepting the concept of "opinion", even in the realm of art and entertainment?
     
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  13. TheSenate

    TheSenate Rebel Trooper

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    I loved the prequels, but then again, I'm a sucker for most Star Wars movies (Episode VII being an exception, of course.)
     
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  14. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

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    Oh, yeah.
     
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  15. Background Character

    Background Character Rebel Official

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    Yeah, the thread asked for my opinion. I gave it. I never proclaimed it to be the undisputed truth.
     
  16. SKB

    SKB Force Sensitive

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    No. There.... is.... anoth-er.... new.... bench-mark.... (yoda 2)
     
    #36 SKB, Jan 31, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
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  17. kuatorises

    kuatorises Clone Commander

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    this is quite funny, but the new movies are in no way, shape, or form worse than the prequels.
     
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  18. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    IMO - at this point I'll take the PT over the ST. I hope Abrams knocks IX out of the park and sways me back over to the ST side.
     
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  19. General_Tarkin

    General_Tarkin Rebel General

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    The ST made me re-evaluate my opinion about the PT. I came to appreciate some parts of it far better, than anytime before...

    Visually, TPM is still one of my favourite epsiodes. Since I grew up with the PT, my nostalgia is incredibly strong towards TPM (it's far lesser to ep II and III though). The TPM video game adaptation is one of my earliest gaming memories... Along with the Podracer game, the visual guide book, the collectible stickers and so on. I think as kid it was one of the greatest things ever for me. And I still feel some of this, when I watch TPM. The atmosphere, the visual style, the music... It has a certain uniqueness.

    However, while I came to appreciate many aspects of it far better, I still think most of the PT is hard to sit through as an adult. I like the ideas behind the episodes far more than the movies themselves. The idea of how a democracy dosen't fall, but is "given away", or Lucas's parallels between the Bush administration and RotS... All interesting to think about. Especially with Lucas's commentaries.

    But I believe the more you think about what's actually happening in these movies plot-wise, and how most of it directly contradicts with the OT (like how Han dosen't know anything about the jedi or the force in ANH, despite being in his teenage years during the clone wars, and the fact that his trustee and partner actually fought along with Yoda) the less sense they make, unless you do some olympic- style mental gymnastics...

    The examples in OP's post are some of the worst parts for me when it comes to the PT. Imo most of the battle scenes (outside of TPM) aged terribly. Especially when you compare it to some other movies from the same era. I can rewatch the march of the Rohirrim from LotR anytime, but the arena battle in AotC or the opening "epic" space battle in RotS will always stay a convoluted, oversaturated mess to me with Lucas attempting to shovel as much crap to the screen as possible instead of actually creating a battle scene that makes some logical sense.

    I also really dislike the lightsaber battles. Pretty much every single one of them. With the exception of Obi-wan vs Anakin, most of the duels just aren't developed enough for me to able to engage with the character's interactions. This is something that imo the ST so far does much-much better than the PT.
     
    #39 General_Tarkin, Jan 31, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2018
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  20. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Force Sensitive

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    My take from ANH is Han was fully aware of who and what the Jedi are/were. But he did not believe in the mystical Jedi powers. He did not believe in their "hokie religion". Not believing and not knowing are two different things.
     
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