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Is the Star Wars Universe Racist... Against Droids?

Discussion in 'General Movie Discussion' started by jarjarstinks, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. jarjarstinks

    jarjarstinks Rebel Trooper

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    Cracked.com posted an episode of their show "After Hours" the other day discussing the question of whether the star wars universe is racist against droids. This is a question that I always thought about and it has bothered me for a long time. Insofar as droids seem to have personalities, interests, and the ability to feel pain (in Jabba's palace we can see droids being tortured after all), the way that they're treated by everybody is rather egregious. I mean they are designed to serve, but there are ethical quandaries that need to be discussed when we get to the subject of AI.
    I'd like to see what you guys think. I'll post a link to the video. It's not that serious, but leaves room for discussion.

    http://www.cracked.com/video_19048_why-star-wars-secretly-racist.html
     
  2. Shawshank

    Shawshank Rebel General

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    Is this serious?

    Are we discussing racism against non-human entities in a fictional galaxy?

    I suppose they were feminist too because Padme and Leia showed their midriffs once.
     
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  3. jarjarstinks

    jarjarstinks Rebel Trooper

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    I just thought it would be an interesting discussion. By all rights, droids seem to have the same kinds of interests as humans do since the humans of that galaxy made them capable feeling pain. And C-3PO always worries because he feels that he has something to lose. Treating them like second-class citizens just seems wrong.

    Just to be clear, this isn't meant to be a slight on the Star Wars universe-- I love the Star Wars universe. Nor is it some PC SJW stuff I'm trying to pedal. I just think that in a universe that seems to have everything so figured out when it comes to race-relations between other species, they haven't confronted the problem that artificial intelligence poses in that respect. I think it helps us reflect on how we'll treat non-human robot intelligences when they appear in our own lives many years from now. Why is that so preposterous?
     
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  4. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    I’m with you here. There’s always been something a bit inconsistent in the society’s treatment of droids. In the prequels you have them being used as cannon fodder by the separatists. Characters easily dismiss droid deaths (destruction). The ease with which Bail Organa decides to wipe a sentient C3P0’s memories always struck me as harsh. In the original trilogy it is lessened somewhat, but still noticeable in the Cantina when they won’t even allow droids to enter (do droids have their own hangouts? Separate entrances? )

    I’ve always been torn between whether that tonal inconsistency was by design or by accident. On one hand you could make the argument that biases existed in the republic. The overly confident, lazy nature of that “ideal” society would seem likely to be built on the backs of slave labor. That it is institutionalized under the empires “humans only” policy and still perpetuated by yokels in the outer rim would seem fitting. If we see efforts for more acceptance of droids as sentient in the sequel trilogy, then I would guess it was by design.

    On the other hand. Part of me has always guessed that this is just error in judgment on George’s part. In the OT, you could easily make a clear distinction. People don’t really respect droids, but the good guys treat them nice and the bad guys don’t. (Jaba’s disintegration chamber comes to mind). But in the prequel trilogy, using them as war drones, and watching the disregard seemingly good characters like a Bail Ogana or an Obi Wan, have for them doesn’t fit within that model. Its possible George just forgot he had intended to show droids as second class citizens and just turned them into machines, but he still needed C3P0 and R2D2 to be sentient, so he was caught in some fuzzy middle ground.

    As is usually the case with things like this. I lean towards the latter being the more likely explanation, but I’ll choose to watch as if it’s the former as it makes for more interesting viewing across all 6 movies. And when the sequel trilogy messes with that continuity again, I’ll have to retcon my theories to fit.
     
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  5. jarjarstinks

    jarjarstinks Rebel Trooper

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    Speaking of battle droids, now I'm thinking about the clones in the same way. In a lot of ways their use as cannon-fodder is even more egregious since they are also complex individuals. I never understood how the republic could justify clone warriors the way they seemed to justify battle droids. Does them being clones make them any less people? What if some of the clones don't want to be soldiers?
     
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  6. SunnyD

    SunnyD Rebelscum

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    Karen Traviss' 'Republic Commando' quadrilogy (disregard the fifth book) addresses this issue nicely and effectively.

    Great, now watch me get a bunch of hate for dropping Karen Traviss' name.
     
  7. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

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    In reference to the droids not being allowed in the Cantina, I always figured it was a sort of "They're not going to eat and/or drink, they'll just take up space a patron could use" sort of deal, just like some real-life bars/clubs will turn people who are below the drinking age away (or charge an outrageous cover). I'm probably wrong, but I always thought it was humorous to look at it in that light.

    This is one of my favorite things that The Clone Wars touched on. In it, you get to see the frustration of the clones themselves at how they're being used essentially as droids, even though they are all real people. Clones yes, and modified at that, but still real people. It was somewhat remarkable when you would see one of the characters actually care for them. Though even that was rare enough.

    There is a fine line for that though. I'm remembering Obi-Wan's line from the beginning of EP III, when Anakin expresses concern over the welfare of the clone pilots behind them. He says something like "They're doing their job so that we can do ours." I always thought that was interesting because he seems to be acknowledging they are real people who have a duty they need to perform... but at the same time glosses over the fact that the duty and obedience to die was thrust on them from birth.
     
    #7 John Crichton, Sep 26, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2014
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  8. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
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    I can kind of see that. But the choice of the language... “We don’t serve their kind here” is chosen specifically. That sounds like an aggressive bias. Harsh words for a harsh policy. If it was just to save space for paying customers, I think it would have been a simple, no droids allowed.
     
    #8 Rebo, Sep 26, 2014
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  9. John Crichton

    John Crichton Rebel Official

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    Heh, yes you're right on the wording/tone. Maybe they do have special foods or drinks, like Bender in Futurama with that weird blue-flame "food". I suppose it would be interesting to see if they do have any hangouts... Meanwhile I'll still keep looking at it in my naive "everyone's nice and happy" way just for kicks. ;)
     
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  10. ekg

    ekg Rebel General

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    In "Kenobi" they explain that specifically on Tatoine anyway, droids take jobs from moisture farmers, which creates the "racism" towards droids. its "legends" now, but I buy it.
     
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  11. Vehcra

    Vehcra Guest

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    I always thought of it as Part of how Life is there..Tatooine is in the Outer Rim, not as "civilized" as the Core Worlds, and even Kenobi basically said that Mos Eisley a special Kind of a Shithole. Maybe the rough Life there makes most Inhabitants even more rough and...unfriendly.
     
  12. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Racism aside, droids in the GFFA are unmistakably a slave class. They're depicted as self-aware as any person, but are relegated to literal property with no control over their own fate. That's some dark stuff, man. I don't expect any sort of earnest dive into that any time soon though. An 'inconvenient truth' as it were.
     
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  13. Jedi Master Wysk

    Jedi Master Wysk Rebelscum

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  14. kuatorises

    kuatorises Rebel Commander

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    They are mindless shock troops who kill innocent people and you're upset they are used as cannon fodder?
     
  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    I hate to contribute to the thread necromancy here, but you're right- even when Star Wars seems aware of this issue, it's treated with levity (almost sarcastically, really).

    Even as recently as Solo, the idea of "droid rights" is basically mentioned with the mocking derision that an Incel might mention feminism.

    And I get it- there obviously isn't a direct analog for IRL droids, so it does seem kind of silly from a real world perspective.

    But it's still kind of unnerving to see a clearly sentient group subjected to what's pretty clearly a brutal slavery. Even main droids like 3-P0 are often the fodder for cruelty by our heroes.
     
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