Is there a plan after all?

I think this proves my point. LOTR, I wonder what was going to be in that. People were on the edge of their seat waiting to see what was Return of the King was going to be about. In all seriousness, it just shows that for some reason people want Star Wars to be incredibly secretive so we are surprised when we see the films, but be incredibly transparent and not keep the nitty gritty details secret.

 

I think people confuse RJ not having a set outline to follow, with him being allowed to do whatever he wanted. Even if there was absolutely nothing planned for what followed TFA, RJ would still have to have his script approved by Lucasfilm before going forward. And since we know that JJ had to show his script for Ep9 to Bob Iger before he could start production, it's a safe bet that RJ had to do the same.

 

I'm pretty sure a "a story arch = a plan"... a plan doesn't have to be too detailed.

 

Iger on the red carpet for TFA said he had approved the TLJ script that same day.

 

But it has to be more than 12%

 

Rian Johnson himself told us time and time again that that's exactly what happened. Do you really think Johnson has just been lying to us over and over and over?

 

May as well make BattleStar Galactica 1980 EP 8 lol.

 

For me this trilogy does not have a plan and I think this is not necessarily a bad thing.

J.J. and Kasdan’s mission was to start the adventure and create engaging characters that would drive the story forward. LFL hired RJ and Trevorrow to continue the story of these characters, devising new adventures and stories and making them move forward and evolve in an organic, intuitive way. Obviously JJ and Kasdan, when writing their story, envisaged a future for their characters, but they did not impose this vision on RJ. Why? because they knew that any good storyteller/ professional film maker would have the necessary skills to drive these characters forward once he was introduced to them and create a principal line of narrative and theme, even if not completely aesthetically or tonally homogeneous. LFL decision had probably something to do with making the story layered, character driven, organic and, yes, unpredictable.

I do not deny circumstances might have influenced LFL’s decision too: let's not forget that JJ and Kasdan wrote the story under terrible time pressure. They really had no time to think much about the future of the characters they created. I'd say the stress was mighty after Michael Ardt’s went south... JJ and Kasdan probably just wanted to make the new characters as engaging and intriguing as possible before passing the batton to the next film maker... RJ seemed to understand the challenge LFL was facing pretty well, and accepted it probably because he likes SW and was confident about his writing ability.

 

We all had Great expectation of Great story and due diligence to be given to a beloved title that includes depth and meaningful connections to Lucas Original. We got neither.

 

it was a company line (in my opinion).. they made a really big thing of telling us that they would be bringing in talented film makers and letting them do their own thing.

Josh Trank was (allegedly) fired from the Fett standalone movie he was working on.
Gareth Edwards was made to change the ending of Rogue One (admittedly he has rebuked what the press reported and made light of the changes)
Phil Lord and Christopher Miller were fired from Solo. they actually spoke out and said that they were being given "zero creative freedom."
Colin Trevorrow was removed from ep IX for 'creative differences'.

in a very short space of time, LF & Disney have demonstrated that they are in complete control of what makes it to the big screen... whether you like what has made it to the big screen so far or not.

We?

perhaps you meant that you got neither.

'in my opinion' seems to be becoming extinct these days lol

well, he was free to present the movie he wanted to make to LF & Disney.

the movie he made aligned with what LF & Disney wanted. Why wasn't Trevorrow allowed to make the movie he wanted? why wasn't Lord & Miller?

 

What are you basing this belief on, besides the fact that you really want it to be true because you want to believe the people running LFL know what they are doing? Johnson himself said there was no outline:

"I wasn’t given an outline of where it goes or even a list of things to hit." - Rian Johnson

Also, please note this is something he said several times on the record with different outlets. It isn't like it was an off-hand remark he made once and retracted later on, or some vague comment which is being taken out of context. He spoke time and time again about how there was no plan, there was no white board, there was no outline, he was free to do whatever he wanted.

 

The OT also had no plan to follow but the execution was masterful compared to the Sequels

 

That's the only exception to the rule though and it still caused problems. Luke and Leia wasn't siblings until ROTJ which made the kissing scene in ESB weird and awkward and Darth Vader and Anikan Skywalker were 2 different people but ESB changed that and made Obi-Wan into a lair in ROTJ. Having different directors to film each movie was a huge mistake by Disney IMO. They should of made JJ direct all 3 movies or hire someone else in the beginning to direct all 3 movies. Also George Lucas over saw the OT to make sure the 2 movies gelled with each other. ST only has a vague outline where only the key points were mapped out but the jounrey to get to that point was never mapped out. Han was always going to die in 7, Luke was always going to die in 8 and Leia was suppose (is) to die in 9. Now the path on how those character was suppose to be killed off, I believe was up to each director.

 

There also had to be an outline of the major character's direction and their journey... "Rey becomes a Jedi, is the hero. Kylo/Ben is conflicted from the start, ends up redeemed and or dead..." Etc. They knew where these characters were going... how they got there was up to the writers and directors. That's what an outline is... a plan. Poe originally was going to die in the first movie. But they changed their mind. But he's not our hero/anti-hero/villian.

 

I like both of the ST movies - but I still think Disney made a huge mistake by deciding each director should write his own movie. I get that Arndt not working out combined with the pressure to have a movie in theaters by 2015 had something to do with it. But there's no rule that says directors also have to be the writers. Even if Arndt was unable to complete the scripts on time, they should have a had a significant, detailed outline in place for all three films before starting any of the scripts. And when Arndt fell through, they never should have let JJ and Kasdan write the first movie without a clearly established plan for where all the plot-lines they started would finish. Frankly, it never should have been up to RJ to decide who Rey's parents were - that should have been established before he was even hired. Lucasfilm should have immediately hired someone to take Arndt's place, overseeing the direction of the entire trilogy. Similar to how Kevin Feige runs the MCU.

Then RJ wouldn't have been written into a corner trying to come up with a reason why Luke hid on a remote planet for years. And Colin Trevorrow wouldn't have been struggling to put together the story for Ep9 right up until production was supposed to begin.

And yes, I know the OT got made up as it went along to a large extent - but it was still the product of one man's vision. It's awfully hard to make a coherent trilogy by tacking a second and then a third independent vision onto a story once it's already in motion. Every television program has a show runner for a reason.

I was thrilled when they brought JJ back for Ep9, because it gives us the best chance of having the movie feel like a proper conclusion for what TFA started. Unfortunately, as much I really did enjoy TLJ, it's likely to always feel out of place.

 

Kind of a relevant point given the upsetting Oscars news, but I think it's important to point out that making a movie is a lot more than actors, dialogue, and plot points.

Cinematography and editing are the cornerstones of filmmaking, and a director as stylized as Rian Johnson would absolutely see things that way. When he says he was "free to make his own movie", I think it's pretty reasonable to think that he meant he was able to be creative with his craft, but not that he was literally given free wanton domain over Star Wars canon.

 

So you are saying he could have made "Looper 2" and called it Star Wars The Last Jedi? I think what you are paying far too much attention to is people in a business doing all they can to paint a good picture of working together. Dont get me wrong I do think RJ worked together very well with LFL, but you act like he simply was told to run along and do what he wanted. Not that they got together regularly, remember he moved to San Francisco to work with LFL, to go over ideas including I am certain a kickoff meeting where they went over the arc for the main characters coming out of TFA. Did RJ have issues with some of the arc's? Maybe, maybe not. We dont know. If he felt the arc's were logical and what he could work with why wouldnt he think he had incredible freedom since they were on the same page from the beginning.

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Off topic, but I have never had an issue with the kiss even thought they were brothers and sisters. We didnt know yet and they didnt know yet. So it works either way. I also think dont have issue with Obi-Wan telling a lie (Is it a little white lie?) since it stops, at least temporarily, Luke from heading in the wrong direction.

I also dont think that multiple directors is an issue with the story. It is oversight and plan which I 100% believe LFL had since 2013. Art of books even give us evidence of this and evidence they did use GL ideas like Luke going into exile. The issues mentioned about ESB wasnt direction it was GL still working on story. Really like any trilogy (unless based on other media) should do.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 13, 2019 ---

What Oscars news?