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Is there a plan after all?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Adam812, Jan 14, 2019.

  1. Rayjefury

    Rayjefury Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]

    That TLJ doesn't explicitly ask these questions is literally my point.

    It's not a strawman, I'm pointing out the contradiction in the principle you argued. You don't see Luke adapt to a change and say we don't need to see it. You see Finn adapt to a change and then argue we still need to see it.

    Yes, again you are echoing my point. These are questions YOU can ask. But TLJ does not prompt you to ask them via it's story. These are questions you ask out-of-universe. You can speculate if Finn is FS, or if he has a Mandalorian origin, or a future X-Wing pilot. But TLJ's story does not prompt you. You absolutely CAN ask questions out of your own personal curiosity, you can speculate, you can even returned to unanswered questions from TFA. TLJ by and large does not invite that type of speculation; especially with Finn's storyline. It's why I suspect none of you who are arguing with me has offered:

    • "Will Finn track down and kill DJ?"
    • "Will Finn start a romance with Rose?"

    Two really easy items that actually have roots in TLJ you could have offered that you don't because Finn's storyline in TLJ is really that forgettable and not worth further exploration. Think about that: the people who allegedly shape Finn's view in TLJ don't even make speculation circuit for what Finn does next. I think that is an indictment in it of itself.

    This is an actual Strawman; an argument you are attributing to me that I haven't actually made. But you're right, it's getting circular. Have a good one

     
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  2. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Sensitive

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    Snoke was doomed from the beginning. Kylo was the BBEG even before TFA started. People here (including me) were predicting Snoke getting killed by Kylo even before TFA came out. Snoke is an easily understood evil mentor/galactic dictator. Ming the Merciless with a 21st century update. He always existed as the last hurdle for Kylo's rise.

    Prior to TFA Kylo already destroyed our OT happily every after. NOT Snoke. Kylo and his betrayal split up Han and Leia, and destroyed Luke's vision of new Jedi. He is and always was the BBEG.

    Rey was always nobody. Maz told her. Her family isn't coming back in TFA.
    The breadcrumbs were there the whole time. The were simply mixed in with familar tropes and lingering expectaions.
     
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  3. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens Jedi General

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    You are not alone:
    Luke feels bad man.JPG



     
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  4. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Force Attuned

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    This is Mark being the jokester that he is most of the time. I hope people aren’t using this as more evidence of how much Mark disliked TLJ.
     
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  5. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Well, you know the answer to this probably doesn't yield hope...
     
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  6. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Yeah... like the Your Snoke Theory sucks thing.
     
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  7. kilowatt

    kilowatt Rebel Trooper

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    [Jedi77-83, ] I just don't think JJ is the type of person who can pull something that like that off, as he is perfect for rebooting franchises, not completing them.
    in his defense Fringe had a plan and was completed in a satisfactory manner.
     
  8. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Should we really care about what Mark Hamill thinks about TLJ? I personally don’t give a hoot about it... His opinion doesn’t validate or nullify mine.
     
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  9. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Actually, I do care what Hamill says because he seems to be right about the movies. I remember reading a quote from him back in 2015 essentially saying that TFA was too much like ANH (he didn't specifically say that in those exact words, but you kind of knew what he was getting at), and he was actually right. Then his quotes in early 2017 on GMA about disagreeing 100% with Rian Johnson's version of Luke, ended up being exactly right again.

    Hamill is still a true professional and gave a great performance in TLJ and no doubt he will give a great performance for whatever role they give him in Episode 9, but the guy has been 100% correct in his assessment of the movies so far.
     
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  10. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    Yes. Yes, we should.
     
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  11. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Force Attuned

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    I think it is ok for people to care or not care. The issue I have is when those who dislike TLJ (which in itself is perfectly fine) try to use Mark’s comments to validate why TLJ is a bad movie. Especially when they cherry pick what he says.
     
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  12. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I don't think this was exactly an earth-shattering revelation of his... Any Dick and Joe could have told you as much...
    That's a matter of opinion though... His opinion... I tend to think Mark Hamill's desire for Luke to survive Episode VIII clouded his judgement in a fundamental way: Luke's whole character in the OT was driven by his fear of turning evil like Vader... This restraint of his was exactly what made him a hero in ROTJ, the same restraint he used in TLJ when cutting himself out of the force after his misstep with Kylo. Luke believed he was doing the right thing by getting out of the fight, exactly as he did in ROTJ during his last confrontation with Vader, when he dropped his weapon and stopped duelling.
     
    #152 Kylocity, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  13. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I read his quote BEFORE TFA came out, not after.

    Luke's exact quote to the Emperor in ROTJ, "You're wrong. Soon I'll be dead.......and you with me." So already knew he was sacrificing himself for his friends, but taking The Emperor and Vader with him when the Death Star blew up (If Vader did not turn back to the light). That is a HUGE difference than ST Luke who pretty much said to his sister and best friend, "Peace out, can't help you!" As Hamill said, "Luke would have regrouped and thought of a Plan B." Instead we got 'Peace out to my friends' Luke which is VASTLY different then OT Luke who would do anything for his friends, including sacrficing himself on the Death Star just to kill the head of the snake.
     
  14. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    I agree, when Mark Hamill said The Last Jedi was the best Star Wars film since Empire he was right.

    The documentary covers this all pretty well and Mark eventually came around and supported what Rian was doing for TLJ.

    Mark had some pretty crazy ideas of where Luke should do in multiple quotes in the past. In the end, Mark is an actor and not a creator.
     
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  15. KeithF1138

    KeithF1138 Rebel Official

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    Starting TV series that are planned to go on indefinitely are always hard. When it comes to movies it is different. I really dont recall movies where he completed them poorly. I think if Lost was redone now it would be planned to only go a certain amount of seasons and not wait to get renewed each year extending out how the story must play out.
    --- Double Post Merged, Feb 12, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 12, 2019 ---
    Why? As much as I love Mark Hamill has he ever distinguished himself as a film maker? Writer? Director?

    People put on him he must be all knowing somehow because he was an actor that played a role. Then love to take conversations in interviews and leave out context and cut content to make points.
     
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  16. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Well he had already read the script... I bet he wasn't the only one who thought TFA somewhat echoed ANH during that first table read... As I said, that was not an earth-shattering revelation.

    He didn't though, abandon his friends. He removed himself from the fight because he considered himself part of the problem, because his own dark side impulse had precipitated Kylo's turn to the dark.

    His plan A was his only plan, because exiling himself was the only solution he saw until Rey and Yoda convinced him otherwise.
     
    #156 Kylocity, Feb 12, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  17. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Rebel General

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    He is an actor (why did you leave that out of your list of people who contribute to the artistic success of a movie?), and he most certainly has distinguished himself as a fantastic actor and the man who played one of the greatest heroes in cinematic history.
    The question was simply "Should we really care about what Mark Hamill thinks about TLJ?" I answered that question. You mentioning whether or not people take him out of context is 100% irrelevant to the question I answered.
     
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  18. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    You're right, Mark Hamill is a great actor, probably one of the best in the whole SW saga. But @KeithF1138's point is, that Mark Hamill knows nothing about writing or directing.
    Hamill's version would have been ROTJ Luke on steroids and that's boring and bland IMO. Would I've like to see a different Luke in TLJ too? Of course! But I also enjoy the now canon Luke. It's the more realistic approach and furthermore much more fitting for the story. So, I'm glad Hamill doesn't write his character on his own. But keep in mind: he also worked on Luke together with Rian!
     
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  19. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I love Mark Hamill. He is a delightful man, who even though disruptive and sh*t stirring, is also incredibly funny and likeable... I think that, because he has become a man of incredible fame due to that first SW success, and because he, to a great extent, owes his comfortable livelihood to fans he has engaged with, fairly directly, over the years, he seems to have taken the mantle of representing the voice of grass root fandom, a fandom which has IMO disproportionally idolised his character over the years... I also think that Mark Hamill might, over all those years away from playing the character of Luke on screen, come to engage more with this shiny, heroic and nostalgic Luke the fans turned his character into, than with the Luke as presented in the OT: a Skywalker with the potential to tap into the dark side for love, like his father, and who responded to this threat within himself becoming an example of peaceful (even passive) warrior.

    I also think that Mark Hamill constantly talking about he "absolutely hating everything RJ had done with his character" was part of his promotional spiel for TLJ... It was a bit for effect, to be subversive, to grab attention... Because what's clear is that Mark Hamill loves attention (nothing wrong with that btw). In interviews he is easily the most comfortable host among the SW cast, directors and producers, so it's not surprising he tries to grab the limelight as much as he can during them by stirring the pot... and he is so powerful and well loved that nobody can stop him... only himself, which I think he might do in future by self editing, as he has seen first hand how unhealthily people has latched on to his words...
     
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  20. Jaxxon

    Jaxxon Force Sensitive

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    I used to think this until I watched the official documentary "The Director and the Jedi." Hamill's dislike of TLJ isn't a secret they try to sweep under the rug. Lucasfilm is very open about Hamill's feelings, they just believe that the vision of the writers and directors supersedes the vision of the actors. As it generally should when making a film.
     
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