1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

"It's time for the Jedi to end...?"

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Ben-K-OB1, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Posts:
    185
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    3,697
    Credits:
    1,105
    Ratings:
    +412 / 4 / -1
    • Funny Funny x 2
  2. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Posts:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    5,585
    Trophy Points:
    16,317
    Credits:
    6,765
    Ratings:
    +9,458 / 246 / -104
    Keep your money. The ST is centered around Anakin's legacy. Both Kylo and Rey are the sides of his character. Further Lucas has already said plainly Anakin is the chosen one. They aren't going to change that.
     
  3. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Posts:
    185
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    3,697
    Credits:
    1,105
    Ratings:
    +412 / 4 / -1
    What a twist it would be if that legacy was all built on a lie perpetuated by the Sith. It's a giant what if obviously.

    Also, things George said in interviews are considered "making of" or "behind the scenes" information and are no longer considered to be canonical. Things he said stopped officially mattering, October 30, 2012 and ceased to be canon in April of 2014 when everything that wasn't PT, OT or Clone Wars cartoon was declared not canon and become legends.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Posts:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    5,585
    Trophy Points:
    16,317
    Credits:
    6,765
    Ratings:
    +9,458 / 246 / -104
    I am completely aware of what's canon. He's the creator of the series. In speaking about the canon he said that Anakin was the chosen one. They are not going to retcon his primary character out of the position in films they now have the rights to. 6 films centered on Anakin's fall and redemption. He is the chosen one. LFL still bares his name, his successor still runs the show, I hope they are not so foolish to screw up there own continuity.
     
    • Wise Wise x 1
  5. Julius Fett

    Julius Fett Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2016
    Posts:
    1,234
    Likes Received:
    2,688
    Trophy Points:
    11,167
    Credits:
    4,942
    Ratings:
    +4,168 / 21 / -4
    Whilst I agree that it would be unwise to go out of their way to confirm otherwise, I think it's very clear by the reaction to Obi-Wan calling Luke the Chosen One - albeit, yes, possibly only from his point of view - in Rebels that fans are still extremely divided on whether or not Anakin actually was the Chosen One, regardless of what George Lucas said.

    I don't think it hurts them at all to muddy the waters, which Lucas actually had a hand in doing himself, such as when Yoda suggests "A prophecy...that misread could have been" in Revenge of the Sith, and I've also heard and seen many fans argue that Anakin denying the opportunity to replace The Father in the Mortis arc of The Clone Wars to maintain balance of the Force as the Chosen One was him making the choice to not be the Chosen One.

    Sam Witwer, known most prominently for voice-acting Maul in Rebels and The Clone Wars, has suggested that the true meaning of the Prophecy might have been lost in time or translation, or even that being the Chosen One simply implies that you were the one who made the right choice and were able to detach yourself in a time of massive conflict to find the best solution, such as Luke's choice to not strike down his father and instead believe that there was still good in him, or Anakin's choice to act on his son's belief and betray his master to destroy the Sith (this of course gives credence to the possibility of multiple Chosen Ones).

    I think there's still plenty for us to learn about this prophecy, and I won't be surprised if we find out more about it - without gaining any definitive answers - in The Last Jedi, what with Luke having seemingly abandoned the Jedi way and seeking out the first Jedi Temple.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  6. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,818
    Likes Received:
    21,980
    Trophy Points:
    149,167
    Credits:
    19,951
    Ratings:
    +26,705 / 65 / -37
    I think muddying the waters is one of the best things they could do, to be honest.

    The prophecy is vague and (narratively speaking) kind of lazy. Personally, I don't really care about it as an actual legitimate prophecy- rather, I think the Galaxy's perception of it is what's important.

    For instance-
    The galaxy/Jedi's/Anakin's perception of the prophecy and its role in the fall of the Republic
    The Galaxy's perception of the "Chosen One" having helped usher in the new order of the Empire (though technically Vader was pretty low profile)
    The Galaxy's perception of Luke as a son of the Chosen One, and the ambiguity of the possibility that such a title may or may not be inherited.


    I think there's a lot they can still do with this, particularly when its ambiguous. We can see the schisms that form in religions and groups in the real world when people disagree. Different interpretations of the prophecy- whether people believe it was Vader, Luke, or someone yet to come (Rey? Snoke?) could lend themselves to the upcoming conflict in the series.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Posts:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    5,585
    Trophy Points:
    16,317
    Credits:
    6,765
    Ratings:
    +9,458 / 246 / -104
    In most philosophies that have a destroyer and a redeemer there is also a rebirth. Anakin (the chosen one) was the destroyer, Luke brought the hope of redemption, now Rey shows up on the doorstep of an old man needing some training.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
    • Wise Wise x 1
  8. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Posts:
    185
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    3,697
    Credits:
    1,105
    Ratings:
    +412 / 4 / -1
    I do personally believe Anakin to be the chosen one and I agree the 6 movies center on the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker (The Chosen One). However, if the 6 movies are about that then how do the three new movies fit in? It is that line of thought that makes me wonder if the movies will be about the rise, fall and redemtion of a false Chosen One which leads to a skizm in the force, a great imbalance that allows for someone like Snoke to gain such power and the new hope is for the real chosen one to come, I.E. Rey.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Posts:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    5,585
    Trophy Points:
    16,317
    Credits:
    6,765
    Ratings:
    +9,458 / 246 / -104
    Rey is the rebirth.

    Kylo and Rey are in parallel opposition. He is a rich aristocrat who is trying any and everything to rise to a destiny he feels owed. He is the legacy of Vader. He holds Vader's mask hoping to fulfill his mission. Rey like Anakin is from out of nowhere, a scavenger similar to a slave, destiny finds her, she is drawn in. They are the sides of Anakin's nature. Villain and hero. Which legacy moves forward.
     
    #49 Pastor Barndog, Jul 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
    • Like Like x 2
    • Original Original x 1
  10. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Posts:
    185
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    3,697
    Credits:
    1,105
    Ratings:
    +412 / 4 / -1
    I dig that, like a lot. Well said.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 2
  11. Burter

    Burter Clone Commander

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2017
    Posts:
    116
    Likes Received:
    184
    Trophy Points:
    352
    Credits:
    738
    Ratings:
    +303 / 15 / -10
    Sorry but until now Luke hasn't shown anything special that would lead us to think he had more raw potential and power in him than Yoda. TFA showed us this clearly as he not only failed to see how his nephew was falling to the Dark Side but he couldn't even prevent his school of getting slaughtered by a novice and his croonies. If Rey who didn't even know the Force existed just came up and whupped Kylo's butt with no training while Kylo himself already had training from Snoke, imagine then how weak he was when Luke lost his academy? This shows us a incredibly weak Luke by comparison. Vader was not going to simply kill somebody as important as Leia. She would be WAY more useful alive and you have to remember that Lando was able to do what he did simply because Vader was distracted by Luke as he was completely focused on trying to capture him. Had Vader been around when Lando tried his coup, we would have seen a repeat of Rogue One's final scene.

    And yes I understand what you say about the comic but SW has shown us that the movies go above all and with all due respect, nothing in comics has more weight. The real threat here was Sheev period. Maul was dead and what happened to Sheevs plans? Nothing. He just replaced him with Dooku and Grievous in the blink of an eye. Dooku and Grievous both got killed and what did that do to hinder Sheev? Nothing at all as he had Anakin take their place as if nothing had happened and by the time Luke was around Palps was already seeking to have Vader replaced. Now don't get me wrong about what I am to say as I love Vader big time but the movies showed us that no matter how awesome we find him, Vader was just a tool for Palps and nothing more and I'm pretty sure he had others in sight should he loose Vader. Sheev was the real threat here all along and that's why Mon Mothma risked so much on the battle of Endor. She risked everything because Sheev was on the Death Star and they could care less and would't have risked so much if it were just Vader who would have been there instead.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  12. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Posts:
    185
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    3,697
    Credits:
    1,105
    Ratings:
    +412 / 4 / -1
    Luke has 30 ish days of training with Yoda and few days with Obi-Wan. So you can't really compare him to either of those Jedi at that time.

    We also don't know the events surrounding the fall of Ben Solo and the slaughter of the students at the Jedi academy. You are assuming Luke was there and got beat by Ben Solo, Snoke and the Knights of Ren and that's a big assumption.

    Plus Rey was able to beat Kylo because he had just been shot by a bowcaster that destroyed the blast out all the armored Stormtroopers that were shot with it throughout the movie.

    Luke is incredibly powerful. It's referred to often in canon and if rumors hold will be seen in TLJ.
     
  13. Haswaa

    Haswaa Rebel Trooper

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2016
    Posts:
    14
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    145
    Credits:
    534
    Ratings:
    +25 / 8 / -2
    Except that TCW episode confirmed he was the chosen one.
     
  14. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Posts:
    185
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    3,697
    Credits:
    1,105
    Ratings:
    +412 / 4 / -1
    Some argue that when Anikan refused to take the fathers place and left Mortis he stopped being the chosen one. That his duty as the chosen one was to remain on Mortis and balance the force.

    And then there is that rebels episode where ObiWan said the chosen one was Luke.
     
    #54 Ben-K-OB1, Jul 26, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2017
    • Wise Wise x 1
  15. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Posts:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    5,585
    Trophy Points:
    16,317
    Credits:
    6,765
    Ratings:
    +9,458 / 246 / -104
    But Obi-Wan already announced his doubts in ROTS "you were SUPPOSED to be the chosen one." His grief has colored his opinion of Anakin. His speculative hope was Luke would fix it."

    Ambiguity builds up the complexity of the series but the creator flat out saying that Anakin was THE 1.
     
  16. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2015
    Posts:
    185
    Likes Received:
    251
    Trophy Points:
    3,697
    Credits:
    1,105
    Ratings:
    +412 / 4 / -1
    I think Anikan is the chosen one but it is that ambiguity that makes me wonder
    • Anikan did indeed destroy the Sith, albeit by joining them and later turning back to good and killing his master and dying in the process. So it would seem that Anikan brought balance to the Force by destroying the Sith
    • In the aftermath books we find out there is a dark force in the unknown regions of space the Palpatine wants to find because he thinks it is the source of his power. Many believe this dark force to be Snoke (A powerful dark side user who is said to have been around long enough to see the fall of the empire).
    • 5 ABY Ben Solo is born. We know from the book Bloodlines that Leah felt this dark force (again many assume this dark force from the unknown regions to be Snoke) reaching out to Ben Solo in her womb
    • Then sometime between 28 - 34 ABY Lukes Jedi Academy is destroyed by Ben Solo, the Knights of Ren and Snoke.
    My questions
    • How could Anikan bring balance to the force when there is a powerful dark side user still alive in the unknown regions?
    • The Jedi stood for 25,000 years and finally the chosen one comes and restores a balance that lasts 28 ish years?
    If you look at Episodes 1-6, The Clone Wars cartoon, interviews with Lucas then yes, of course, Anikan is the chosen one, without a doubt, 100% yes. However, the story and the universe is being expanded and changed thanks to Disney's acquisition of Star Wars. So if you add in Episode 7, the Canonical books and comics I think it becomes clear that Disney is starting to chip away at the idea that Anikan is the Chosen One.
     
  17. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,818
    Likes Received:
    21,980
    Trophy Points:
    149,167
    Credits:
    19,951
    Ratings:
    +26,705 / 65 / -37
    Just for clarification, the quote is (emphasis mine):

    So I'm not entirely sure Obi Wan is saying Anakin isn't the Chosen One- rather, that the Chosen One squandered his potential and shirked his duties.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

    Joined:
    May 13, 2016
    Posts:
    1,831
    Likes Received:
    955
    Trophy Points:
    4,217
    Credits:
    1,182
    Ratings:
    +1,906 / 413 / -301
    We haven't been given any indication of Lukes Raw ability - thats why I a said its reasonable to assume. We don't know the details of his school being destroyed - the Jedi Temple was destroyed on Yoda's watch, does this mean he isn't that powerful? I wouldn't use the poor handling of Rey as evidence - thats just poor handling of Rey.

    Lando planned that ambush, no reason to think the ONLY reason it happened was Vader (who wasn'tw it them at any time) was busy.

    Killing Vader would be a HUGE victory for the rebels an dblow the Empire. Thats why they risked so much to kill him in Vader Down.
     
  19. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Posts:
    4,818
    Likes Received:
    21,980
    Trophy Points:
    149,167
    Credits:
    19,951
    Ratings:
    +26,705 / 65 / -37
    A big reason for the Clone Wars (narratively speaking) was to disperse the Jedi (including Yoday) across the galaxy, making the taking of the Temple and the effects of Order 66 possible. I wonder if we'll see that Luke's Jedi were also spread thin- or if there were just so few of them that it didn't matter.
     
  20. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2014
    Posts:
    4,391
    Likes Received:
    5,585
    Trophy Points:
    16,317
    Credits:
    6,765
    Ratings:
    +9,458 / 246 / -104
    Shirked until his sympathy for his son tossed the sith lord into the bowels of the DS2. At which point he had fulfilled the prophecy.
     
Loading...

Share This Page