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"It's time for the Jedi to end...?"

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Ben-K-OB1, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    The specifics of the Jedi Academy are one of the things I am most curious about. From the books they have released so far it seems maybe like Luke was off looking for Jedi artifacts and history more than he was at the Academy. We don't know how many students were there or if he even had students at all yet, the only student we know he had was Ben Solo.
     
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  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Possibly. I'd interpret it that way as well, but I can see how some would view that as too little, too late
     
  3. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Sith destroyed. Jedi ready to carry on the legacy, democrscy is back.

    Time for the photo shoot and Force ghost team up.
     
  4. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    The Sith were destroyed but not evil force users I.E. Snoke, who was alive at that time. So no balance achieved?
     
  5. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Again not according to the creator.

    The ST is about how the balance will be maintained. Anakin achieved it and now we see how his legacy will play out.

    Its the next step in the cycle.
     
  6. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    Creator or not what Lucas said in interviews is not Canon. Going off canon It would seem that Anikan was the chosen one and achieved balance when he killed Palpatine, this is undeniable in my opinion.

    However, I also think it is abundantly clear that Disney is poking holes and casting doubt on it. As it stands in TFA the force is not in balance and hasn't been for some time. If it was in balance there would be no Snoke, no Kylo (maybe no Knights of Ren, not sure if they are force users)
     
  7. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    This assumes balance is a state once achieved can never be lost.

    Also remember Anakin was "A" vergence in the Force not "THE" vergence.

    Hence its a cycle, destruction, redemption, rebirth, repeat.
     
  8. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    So maybe Disney is not poking holes in Anikan being the Chosen One but poking holes in how that balance was maintained? Maybe it wasn't that Anikan was a false Chosen One or didn't achieve balance but rather a failure of Luke to maintain that balance and in turn a failure of Obi-Wan and Yoda for not properly training him.
     
  9. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Or that balance (harmony) is lost when selfishness thrives.
     
  10. Lady Oola

    Lady Oola Rebelscum

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    Yes the Jedi Temple was destroyed on Yoda's watch but was he the only one responsible for the temple and it's location? No. The temple was at the very heart of a planet filled with corruption and it was even the power base of the most evil Sith Lord ever and the Jedi as a whole failed to see this. Luke on the other hand would be fully responsible for his academy and I'm pretty sure that he wouldn't have built in in Snoke's back yard.

    Yes Rey was shown as an incredibly overpowered Mary Sue but sadly once it's in the movie it indeed can be used as evidence even if it was poor handling on Lucasfilm/Disney's part. You are correct when you say that we haven't been given any indication of Luke's Raw ability but what we did know was that he had strong feelings for his family and he was strong enough to feel the conflict of emotions in a highly trained Sith Lord. Vader was WAY more powerful than Kylo Ren and Luke was able to get to him so I'm pretty sure that after all of those experiences and after so many years mastering the Force, Luke should have at least felt the Dark Side within his nephew and taken precautions. If Rey, mere moments after learning that the Force even existed was able to probe Ren and feel his fears, we are to believe that Luke couldn't?

    Yes Lando planned that ambush but I agree with Burter. Had Vader not been distracted by Luke being there, that ambush would have been cut short by Vader and Lando would be dead.
     
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  11. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    What Luke the only one responsible for the his Temple/School?

    yes, watch ANH.

    Why? Vader was no where near them. He ordered his men to take Chewie and Leia to his ship, he never went with them.
     
  12. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    Luke was not supposed to leave Yoda and Dagobah and go to Cloud City. It was a mistake, unnecessary and the wrong choice.

    Luke leaving Yoda:
    Luke, you must complete the training -
    I can't keep the vision our of my head, they're my friend I must help them - Luke
    You must not go - Yoda
    But Han and Leah will die if I don't - Luke
    You don't know that even Yoda cannot see their fate - ObiWan

    Luke on Yoda's death bead:
    Unfortunate that you rushed to face him, that incomplete was your training, that not ready for the burden were you - Yoda
    I'm sorry - Luke
     
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  13. sbs87

    sbs87 Lord of The Dark Arts

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    The reason Snoke wants to snuff out Luke is because as of that moment, Luke is the last Jedi. At the beginning of TLJ he will still be the last Jedi. The line "its time for the Jedi to end" can easily be a cut from and entire line of him saying something to Rey about the past like "After the destruction of the new Jedi academy I decided its time for the Jedi to end." Once he meets Rey maybe his mind changes. Maybe what he found on Ahch-to already has changed his mind. Maybe when he hears what the FO has done and that Ben killed his father that changes his mind. Theres a whole bunch of good reasons to change Luke's mind and help. The title "The last Jedi" I think is simply the state of the Jedi at this present time. The title means basically "Star Wars : Luke Skywalker".
     
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  14. mrverylongusername

    mrverylongusername Rebelscum

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    well since it's been stated many times that stuff GL has said is no longer canon...

    I'm wondering if the idea that the 'balance' was not simply numerical was one such idea that came from Lucas.

    if so its entirely possible to retcon the fulfilment of the prophecy to mean that anikin brought balance by killing all but 2 jedi.
     
  15. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    You mean if the want to break their 4 billion dollar toy and ruin the saga?

    While I understand Lucas doesn't own LFL. He is one of the largest shareholders of Disney. And despite what people say about how they might be departing from Lucas' vision no one from LFL says that rather they have bent over backward to speak about how they want what they do to build on not overwrite Lucas.
     
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  16. Ben-K-OB1

    Ben-K-OB1 Rebel General

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    Lucas has said many times that Disney was not keen on having him involved in anything

    He said, "I sold them to the white slavers that take these things and..." then he trails off and doesn't finish the sentence. Then later in the interview, Lucas said, “They weren’t that keen to have me involved anyway. But at the same time, I said if I get in there I’m just going to cause trouble. Because they’re not going to do what I want them to do. And I don’t have the control to do that anymore. All I would do is muck everything up. So I said, ‘Okay, I will go my way, and I’ll let them go their way.’”

    Disney gives zero shits about George Lucas and what he thinks about Star Wars.
     
  17. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Not according to Lucas' hand picked successor.

    Also Disney is smart enough to know that they can't radically depart from SW lore without losing fans. Further they are going to make changes that diminish marketable characters from the previous films.
     
  18. Canadian Ronin

    Canadian Ronin Rebel General

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    but they have ignored his stuff and done their own thing. They aren't making Lucas's star wars anymore.
     
  19. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    For every Lucas quote saying they aren't going with his ideas there is Kathleen Kennedy saying they are still using his ideas.

    Also there is a big difference between telling different stories in the SW universe and breaking the rules of SW and turning it into something else. Some of the changes people are pushing IMO make it something else. Worse retroactively changing the existing saga.
     
  20. Lionberger19

    Lionberger19 Rebel Trooper

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    In Revenge of the Sith Palpatine tells Anakin "if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace...a larger view of the Force" could Luke now think along his views now?
     
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