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SPECULATION IX, Legacy, and Reylo Ramble

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Use the Falchion, Jan 14, 2018.

  1. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    As stated in the title, this is more of a ramble thread than anything, but I really would like some Reylo fans to help me out here.

    So, the main point of the ST so far (hinted in TFA and spelled out in TLJ) is that anybody can be a powerful Force User, and the Legacy of the Jedi isn't just limited to the Skywalkers. And in the fandom there's been concerns/theories/speculations about Ep IX ending the Skywalker Saga for good.

    But if Reylo happens, wouldn't that negate the whole message of "The Force belongs to anybody," and "The Skywalker Family ends?"

    What side do y'all fall on? How can we reconcile the two?

    Thanks.

    I should state that:

    1. I don't really want the Skywalker Saga to end in IX, but I'll understand why they do it if it happens.
    2. I'm not a fan of Reylo. BUT I do think there is a high chance that Episode IX will incorporate it in some way; and I won't abandon SW if it happens.
     
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  2. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    1. It's a stupid marketing decision 2 kill off every last living Skywalker. That's like killing off every Marvel mutant.

    2. Reylo is nothing but a tease.

    Also anybody can now use the Force without training (Stable Boy). A huge gripe i have with RJ.
     
    #2 Darth Basin The Greatest, Jan 14, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2018
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  3. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Not necessarily. Rey and Ben could still have children. But this doesn't mean they will play a big part in future trilogies. Maybe they aren't even force sensitive.
     
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  4. Boss Vos

    Boss Vos Rebel Official

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    RJ is obviously a huge fan of Harry Potter.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    if Rey and Ben have children, they will be Solos.
    the pro-Skywalker or Don't Care people can shrug and call them Skywalkers.
    the anti-Skywalker or End Saga people can call them Solos.
    it already doesn't matter who or how anybody is connected to the Force.

    sounds like it could be a total win-win for everyone.

    chances are the ST will end with this open-ended possibility dangling.
    Rey and Ben will defeat the FO, they'll smile at each other, then jump into the Falcon off to adventures unknown.
    and as the credits roll everyone can argue whether they build a new jedi order or get married and have 16 kids.

    or both. : D
     
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  6. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    Or neither. :p

    As someone pointed out, if that happens and they have children - that doesn't necessarily means the kids will be Force sensitive. And I don't think it would negate the message even if they are (I doubt we would see if it's one way or another at all). Ray is still nobody. Broom boy is still a nobody. There are many Force sensitive nobodies in the galaxy. We will maybe even see some of them if Rey decides to gather them though I feel EPIX will be more about our heroes personal journeys.

    But, we'll see. JJ was the first who in his commentary to TFA both said that part of this trilogy is origin story of the villain and hinted at Rey and Kylo's connection. He could go both ways - not redeeming Kylo or opening those Falcon doors. We just don't know. This is one of the reasons I like TLJ so much - it freed JJ to take the story anywhere. He might surprise us and come up with a third, completely unexpected resolution.
     
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  7. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Why I don't consider Ren/Ben a Skywalker.

    Guys do u consider Nicole Kidman an American? Do u consider Bob Hope an Englishman? Well guess what, She was born in Hawaii. He was born in England. Most of the world considers Kidman an Aussie & Hope an American.

    Ben/Ren is a Solo.
     
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  8. LarsSkywalker

    LarsSkywalker Rebel Official

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    You just described the movie Logan.

    You realize that right?
     
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  9. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Correction. I mean every mutant. Well Disney/Marvel was going to replace them with Inhumans then the merger was announced.
     
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  10. ReyErso5280

    ReyErso5280 Rebel General

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    Yep i have a feeling this is what's going to happen (in terms of open ended) since JJ loves the mystery box trope
     
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  11. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    Definitely!

    In my opinion, the more personal, the better the story because we can grow closer to individual characters and care more about them.

    It's interesting that TLJ resulted in a very small core of Resistance protagonists.

    This sets up a very interesting ratio of key individuals confronting an expansive First Order as well as Kylo Ren's growing Dark Side powers.

    The Original Trilogy had the most wonderful core of classic characters, even as the Rebellion at that point was greater in size and reach than the Sequel Trilogy Resistance.

    The Sequel Trilogy seems to emphasize individual journeys by keeping central characters -- Rey, Finn, Poe -- on distinct paths of challenges and self-discovery.

    Ben also seems to be very much on his own, even more so now without Snoke hanging over him pulling his strings.

    I'd prefer Ben to stay on that particular journey, leading the First Order as "Supreme Leader" from a distance while he pursues his own journey either deeper into the Dark Side or towards the Light.

    All of this can go in many directions.

    Ben could try to fulfill his desire to become or surpass Darth Vader, perhaps even trying his hand at ruling the galaxy on his own from Vader's castle on Mustafar, relying more on the Dark Side of the Force than the First Order.

    Hux is another unknown variable. He was a comedic vehicle and punching bag in TLJ, but perhaps he still has a major role to fulfill. Elsewhere on this forum I proposed that, if Snoke is somehow able to live on by transferring temporarily to another being, perhaps that could be Hux. In that situation, Hux could be a new challenge for Kylo Ren who suddenly needs Rey to help him repel Snoke's attempt to return and transfer again.

    Rey could decide, like Luke, Ahsoka, and Qui-Gon, to follow her own path outside of the Jedi doctrine.

    Poe could have learned from Holdo and even be willing to sacrifice himself for the Resistance (reborn as a "Rebellion" as the end of TLJ).

    Finn could even step up and become a leader within the Resistance/Rebellion and/or lead what I proposed earlier: a Stormtrooper uprising, helping to defeat the First Order not through violence but through making the First Order aware how they were manipulated -- brainwashed and mind-controlled -- since birth to fight for a Dark Side cause.

    In my opinion, TLJ offers a potentially great setup for a variety of circumstances in IX. The storytellers should be able to extrapolate some amazing storylines.

    An equally compelling question is how much closure can / will / should be attained at the end of this trilogy. I don't expect everything to be neatly concluded, but I believe most or all major questions and conflicts should find some honest degree of resolution.

    Done well, without shortsightedness, any "end" of IX could make for an even greater beginning for future generations of Star Wars stories.
     
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  12. JarJar

    JarJar Guest

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    Our heroes should journey together.And I think Kylo should have a cruel coldhearted bastard of a psychopath disciple.
     
  13. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    I do think circumstances in IX could happen to make that so!
     
  14. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Could you explain what you mean by Reylo, and why you think it would negate the message of the "The Force belongs to anybody"?
     
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  15. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    Sure! By Reylo, I use the portmanteau* to connote a romantic relationship between the Rey and Ben/Kylo Ren. It's the most popular version of their "ship name" so to speak. I assumed if a relationship like this does occur, future writers and authors will want to make the two parents. They did with Luke and Leia anyways (and Luke wasn't even in a relationship in the movies!). If that's the case, the Skywalker Saga continues, and fans might feel like the Skywalkers - due to their strength in the Force and their roles in major events in the last three generations - have a sort of monopoly on the Force. Sure others can use it, but because in-universe we've only seen a small amount of people use the Force between the ROTS and TLJ (and even fewer in the movies), casual fans and even more hardcore fans will feel like if the main character is a Force User, they have to be related to the Skywalker family tree in some way.

    Look at Rey. Part of the major speculation around her post-TFA and pre-TLJ was "Who are her parents? Is she a Kenobi? A Solo?* A Skywalker?" We didn't really ask "Why is she so strong," without including the context of heritage. And a lot of people are STILL hung up on this.*
    Maz asks Han "who's the girl" before her major Awakening moment with the Lightsaber. Most of us thought Rey couldn't be that strong in the Force if she wasn't related to someone. And we were all wrong.

    But if Rey marries Ben and they have children, does that negate the message? Sure, she and those she trained are Force Sensitive. But whatever children she has with Ben would most likely be stronger, and most definitely major characters. I feel like it might be a step back. The message that TLJ hits us over the head with is that The Force and The Light Side are bigger than the Skywalkers. Bigger than the Jedi. Even bigger than the battles going on right now. We see that in Rey and Broom Boy. But if Rey and Kylo get together and have children, we're really not seeing that. Rey might become an exception to the rule, or worse, the shining example to a rule that everyone praises, but we as audience members DON'T see observed.* I DON'T WANT THIS TO HAPPEN.

    But this all assumes Ben survives the PT, he and Rey get together, and that there will be a Sequel Sequel Trilogy (I think the nickname for it was the NT or Next Trilogy some years ago...). And those are major assumptions at that. Sorry, this post was way longer than it meant to be. I hope this cleared some stuff up. If not, I'll try again and make sure it's shorter! ;)

    *I really wanted to use the word "portmanteau." Sorry about that.
    *I differenciate Solo and Skywalker in the questions, but they serve the same purpose for this point - if she was from either, she'd still be the descendant of Anakin.
    *Fortunately most of the people hung up on this aren't really in this forum...or at least I haven't seen them.
    *Skye/Daisy from Agents of SHIELD Season One comes to mind. She's a great hacker and a good character all around, but people praise her when it hadn't been deserved yet. Post-Season One, she really earned all that praise. Sadly, I haven't watched since Season 3 (I moved and where I am it's pretty much impossible to keep up with shows).
     
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  16. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    what if the two most powerful Force users in the galaxy have Force-null children?

    i think the idea is that genetics alone does not determine your strength/abilities to tap into the Force (like Rey).
    does it matter if Ben married someone else and had kids and Rey did the same?
    if Rey's children (with or without Ben) are powerful, then it's the same problem, different bloodline.

    so no, i don't think whether Rey and Ben have kids together undercuts the message.
    they won't be the only Force users in the galaxy, regardless.
    and if the storytellers want to tell stories about them in particular, that's fine, give the Skywalker fans what they want in that regard.
    but it's not just Ben's bloodline that matters. Rey Nobody is still supplying 50% of the genetic material to make that happen.
     
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  17. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    Yeah that's the ideal solution. So many interesting things you could explore there!

    I just (unreasonably and unnecessarily) worry that Rey Nobody could be overshadowed by Rey Nobody Who Became Somebody Because of Her Husband and/or New Family. I don't want Rey to lose what makes her, her. But I don't think she will (I don't think she CAN). And I don't think Disney will mess it up. J


    Some would say they've been trying to replace them for a little longer than that (AVX and Inhumanity anyone?)
     
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  18. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    this is kind of why i think they will leave it open ended until they can come up with a clever solution or the cultural temperature changes (rather than trying to push it). not that i think Rey has anything to worry about in terms of getting overshadowed by Ben.
    if they end up together, the whole idea is balance, so she will always have strengths to counter his weaknesses, and the converse is also true. Ben may dominate in the eyes of some diehard Skywalker fans and there's no controlling that, but i don't think that's problematic per se.

    and maybe they would choose to have no children of their own, but to adopt instead: to take in orphans (like George himself did) as a nod to nobody children all over who can always be somebody whether they were born to the most powerful Force users in the galaxy or just brought into their family in another way.
     
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  19. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    I consider this a potentially legitimate concern in general. It's often enough portrayed in media (music, movies, books, TV) that "someone is no one until they are loved" and in some ostensibly stable and socially-approved relationship.

    I think the truth is more along the lines of "someone is no one until they accept who they are": you are the source of your most personal identity. Which elevates the importance of perception, self-esteem, and one's overall concept of self-image.

    Rey's search for belonging, her inward commitment to an unrealistic (as of TLJ) familial reunion, all speak toward her sense of self and some degree of denial (up to TLJ).

    Accepting the truth -- if what we were told in TLJ was the truth -- is a sign of mental maturity in Rey -- an already mentally strong character who could already face down Kylo, hold herself back from striking him down in TFA, survive Snoke, and easily best his Praetorian Guard.

    Luke's lessons and dialogue with Rey will also contribute to her character, particularly as she relates to, interacts with, and understands the Force.

    Because of this, I think Rey is less susceptible to having to define herself through other people's eyes as of TLJ.

    She is gregarious, eager to help those who mean much to her (like Luke), but she is very much her own person -- resourceful enough to have survived for as long as she did on Jakku -- yet not entirely hardened or tuned out of life according to that challenging past.

    She was established early on in TFA as being compassionate towards BB-8 -- at least twice, I believe: first saving the droid from another scavenger and then refusing to sell the droid to Unkar Plutt. She has a natural tendency to care and to lead.

    Her natural sense of initiative and her openness to the Force can help her find more answers yet, I think, if she learns to trust in herself and in the Force.

    Even there Luke could be helpful as well, helping her trend towards the Light Side of the Force, while the ancient Jedi manuscripts might prove least helpful in developing any stronger sense of self.

    The old Jedi doctrine would certainly preach towards being selfless, avoiding attachments, remaining dispassionate, but, very much like Luke, I believe Rey can intuitively navigate situations and maintain, if not strengthen, meaningful and loving human connections while remaining true to the Force and, most of all, herself.

    Sort of reminds me of Shakespeare's character Polonius addressing his son Laertes (brother of Ophelia) in Hamlet:

    "This above all: to thine ownself be true,
    And it must follow, as the night the day,
    Thou canst not then be false to any man."

    (Even a sort of echoic of the Journal of the Whills in that second line: "First comes the day, then comes the night.")

     
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  20. zazeron

    zazeron Rebelscum

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    i think that leia and ben solo were both suppose to live in the end with a platonic reylo romance...now I think the chances of a reylo romance with sexual consequences and children just been guaranteed. disney wants to make more saga movies
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 18, 2018, Original Post Date: Jan 18, 2018 ---
    rey having the family she always wanted does not negate any message about the force...especially when she is a nobody
     
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