SPECULATION IX, Legacy, and Reylo Ramble

What if I told you that as a woman, I find your opinion insulting to me and all women? What, you think that a woman who never showed any interest in "bad boys" will suddenly change her mind after watching a movie where a female character falls for that type of male character? Oh no, save the wominz from the evils of fiction! You could argue that Reylo would send a bad message to little girls (and you would lose that argument, just so you know, but you're welcome to try anyway), but nope, you had to take the "bad for women" route. I long for the day when feminists will no longer see women as brain dead children who can't make their own choices. You people like to complain about misogyny while being completely oblivious to the irony of the situation. And before you ask why I "went off" because of a single sentence, allow me to explain: your ideology has all my contempt, I find IT to be extremely detrimental to women, and sometimes I can't help but show it. Also, please don't point me to the dictionary definition of feminism. If you do, I'll point you to the dictionary definition of communism. Either you see why, or you don't.

 

Sure, feminism is in the eye of the beholder, it's quite a few directions to it these days. And, you might argue that Reylo is not a detrimental message to young girls...even though the the thought that a preferred partner is a an unstable egoistical murderer who basically wants to control everything is hard for me to get. Because...abs?

I see a feminist blog about this here. Seems she is atheist. (So you might be right that she could be a communist too)

https://faithlessfeminist.com/blog-posts/nice-guys-still-finish-last/

And I guess this female fan is quite misogynistic applying these thoughts on "Reylo":

https://www.thethings.com/reylo-toxic-heres-15-reasons/

It is also possible to see it from a modern perspective, advocating that this is what girls really want and are indeed wired to want, and not a social construction. This guy might be on point.

https://media.tpo.nl/2015/01/23/julien-blanc-absolutely-right/

Anyways...I will just look at the splendid fan art. I wonder if the artists are male or female...

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2018 ---

 

I do want romance in Episode IX, but it does not have to between Rey and Kylo Ren. I get such an asexual vibe from Rey. I think she is going to go down the traditional Jedi route of no romantic attachments to any of our other male lead characters. If I were to pair her up with any of our male lead characters, it would be with Finn. Her and Poe have not set up any relationship (platonic, friendly or otherwise) in the trilogy yet. So it would feel forced (no pun intended) to have Rey be romantically linked with Poe. Kylo Ren is too much of an unforgivable mentally abusive jerk towards her. It just feels so wrong. When he told her that "You are nothing, but not to me" - RED FLAG. Girl, get away from him. So if she were to have a natural romantic relationship, it would have to be with Finn. But we know that Finn is going to be romantically involved with Rose. So Rey will be the Luke, Yoda, or Kenobi of this sequel trilogy. No romantic attachments for our Heroine.

If she does hook up with Ben Solo, it better be that he killed the Kylo Ren part of himself and went full fledge into the light. Otherwise, the only other alternative is for Rey to go Darkside. Ben Solo maybe gothic hot, but Girl, you can do better...

 

First off, you're reducing a complex character to "an unstable egotistical murderer". If you're looking for that, look no further than Hux. But that's besides the point. Regardless of what he is, Kylo IS dangerous to be around, there's no denying that. But did you miss the part where Rey leaves Kylo when she realizes she can't be with him the way he is? Where she makes the right choice? What message do you think THAT sends? Or do you have a problem with the thought that they might end up together if he changes for the better?

No, my point wasn't that feminism and communism are similar. My point was that their dictionary definitions sound good but are equally irrelevant in practice, and people STILL use them in arguments (which is pretty funny). Also, I'm an Atheist myself, and no, that doesn't make me more likely to be a communist.

And allow me to quote that lovely post (that you linked):
"As a woman who grew up in a religious cult run explicitly by a hard-hitting patriarchy"
Did she grow up in Yemen or a similar place by any chance? No? Then she doesn't know jack about patriarchy and institutionalized religious oppression, does she? I don't trust her judgement, so whatever she has to say is irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. Also, I don't know what the hell is wrong with that blog, it froze my laptop, I had to do a hard shutdown, and I've been waiting 20 minutes for it to start working again. And it's still not working right! It must have been the damn patriarchy at work.

Yes. But the article is ridiculous start to finish, so that's just one of the writer's problems.

I have to quote this one too:
"But women do want to be lead, overwhelmed, overmanned."
As infuriating as that sounds, it's actually true for many women. Too bad he forgot to use the crucial "many". Without it, that sentence makes him sound like an idiot. Generalization is the ultimate proof of stupidity, hopefully he just made a mistake. And no, the argument there is not that women are attracted to bad boy jackasses. It's that they're attracted to power (just like men actually, all people are attracted to power, in all its forms). There's a big difference between the two, and only idiot women manage to confuse one with the other. Speaking of which, movies don't have the power to drop women's IQ, and don't have the power to raise it either. And I'm back to my first point.

 

Star Wars is a fairy tale. it's not a movie's responsibility to raise your children.

also, the Rey & Ben fanclub do make really pretty art. gotta give them that! : D

 

Also, look no further then what Leia fell for... Han did a 180 for his arc.

 

You want Kylo Ren to be redeemed? Fine. But for me, with redemption must come death. He doesn't really deserve more. And if Kylo Ren become "redeemed" in "Episode IX", who will be the main villain? General Hux? I just don't see it. If this story did not feature Force users as main characters, sure. But it does feature powerful Force users as main characters . . . including the current leader of the First Order. So, who will be the main villain?

"Many" women does not automatically mean most women. We don't even know if that means more women. Every time I think of Reylo and how it was especially depicted in "The Last Jedi", I feel so much anger and frustration. Why? Why on earth did Rian Johnson think it was necessary to even hint a possibility of those two being interested in each other within a few days after the events of "The Force Awakens"? Why on earth did Kathleen Kennedy allow this to happen? What were they thinking? This is just nauseating to me.

 

Are you seriously comparing a patricidal emo murderer to Han Solo? What did he do other than blasting Greedo and decide to help instead of staying out of the conflict?

 

Yes, a weak example. He no doubt has hung out with the "bad crowd." Han has killed people, by the way. That being said, he was a smuggler, pirate and a scoundrel.

 

he also cornered Leia and touched her without her consent (explicitly against her wishes).
if we want to get pecky about "relationships" in Star Wars, thus far all the romances have been problematic.*

Ben yells at Rey in the heat of a moment. big whoop.
Rey is not a victim. she is never not in control when she's around him.
look at him. he's completely whipped.


* except Kanan and Hera, i suppose. they were okay. XD

 

Hux is also an egoistical murderer, but arguably more stable. Kylo is basically a better looking version of Hux with force powers. And, forgive me for saying so, but you do define a "right" choice here in rejecting Kylo. What makes that "right"? The reasons your fellow fan wrote and you called ridicilous? This seems conflicted to me.

I don't think the definitions are irrelevant at all. Sure, feminism can be interpreted broadly, but a definition will still hold up in may cases. You really can't redefine communism as anything else than doing away with private ownership and workers taking over the means of production at it's core either.

It isn't hard finding religious sects that have this oppression in the US. Maybe you should read up on the way things work with hasidic jews, sects/cults like Quiverfill, (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiverfull) or Islamic fundamentalists in the US. Must be tough for women breaking out of these societies to be doubted as well. The rest of the post seems a little paranoid, but you are probably trying to make a joke(?).

What parts? The one's pointing out that is embraces fascism, that Han Solo would roll over in his grave, or that i reduces Rey to a prize? Or others?

You do realize that you are agreeing with an article that advocates courses with these lessons as the curriculum? I don't see this as real power...just abuse and cheap tricks. By the way...Kylo does seems to check quite a few of those boxes. He does seem good at smashing things and displaying weapons Not bad in the threat department either. Perhaps you should read up on Julian Blanc and his theories on women and see if you really agree. I do find it strange that you find the woman writing why she feels Reylo is a bad thing misogynistic, while embracing a man praising these courses.





Actually, I think most mentally sound men and women seek a partner that can be their equal. Though you have a point; women are more likely to be attracted to status. (While men will often favor looks and age) Often, status will mean power...but I think it is downright pathological to get the hots for fascist murderers. Advocating it will be detrimental in my view...but we will just have to disagree there.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2018 ---

Never did see Han personally having a whole settlement executed...killing all of the jedi apprentices not lining up to join him...working for a fascist order that killed the population of nine planets...kill his father with his own hands just to further his own ambition and stand by as his mother got blown up by his allies. Deep down you know the comparison is so much off that it is pointless to compare.

 

Rey and Ben are each others' equal.
the whole point of the story so far is balance.

 

Kylo kidnapped Rey, and entered her mind. Basically mind-raping her. Killing her father figure, trying to kill her new friend... and killing her (useless) mentor.

Just because he is a sniveling weak loser who gets his ass handed to him in the end doesn't exactly exonerate him.

 

i didn't say it did.
i said she's not a victim.

the only people making Rey less for her willing interaction with Ren Ben are the people who call her a victim when she isn't one.

 

Storywise they are depicted as balanced as Angelina Jolie vs the guy I referred to above.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 18, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 18, 2018 ---

Yeah, nice willing interaction. I see no victims here....

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 19, 2018 ---

Or here, for that matter.... Seem like a pretty willing interaction to you?

 

yes, i said her willing interactions. being tied to a chair is obviously not a willing interaction.
reaching out to him through Force Skype and coming to him on the Supremacy are.

the problem is that people act like they are in a relationship in TFA. they're not.
therefore there's no "abuse". they are combatants in a war and behave toward each other accordingly. he kidnaps her, she cuts him up.
they have no relationship until Rey says "I felt so alone" and he answers her "you're not alone", and she says "neither are you."

now they have a relationship which we can judge based on their behavior. and what happens?
they make promises, they misunderstand one another, he makes a spectacularly bad proposition to rule the galaxy, and she turns him down.
both of them feel equally betrayed.
so they resume being combatants in a war.

that's it.

that's the whole of their "relationship" up to this point.
anything beyond that is just us as audience members projecting on them.

there are no victims here. just two powerful Force users who don't know what the heck they're doing and are looking past one another at objectives in opposition.

 

Actually, she wasn't a combatant, she was just a civilian being hunted down by the FO, and interrogated. Later found to be of value, and thus not killed outright like others.

She never reached out to him, that was Snoke's doing. A trap. She seemed to go because she "though she could save him", a pathological behaviour that lands quite a few damaged and killed women in the real world. Affirming that he is indeed a murdering psychopath with anger management issues wanting to control the galaxy, she leaves. And yet we still have people rooting for that relationship. It's like Palpatine and Yoda courting...

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 19, 2018, Original Post Date: Jul 19, 2018 ---

And...why not go for Rey and Hux? That would be cute too!

 

again, because this is a fairy tale. and because it's about heroic choices.
right now her heroic choice is to reject him; in ix his heroic choice needs to be rejecting the First Order
(which, if you want to point to an abusive relationship, there it is, not even subtly coded in the subtext of the story).

people who are rooting for this relationship are rooting for two people who are broken to find healing.
projecting "abusive" onto the two of them is only that: a projection.

and to be honest, i still don't think they'll end up together as a romantic couple.
i think they may help each other grow up, ultimately support one another, find the balance, share compassion.
they don't need to be "in love" to demonstrate what heroic love truly is.

and why would anybody reject that as a premise?
Han, Leia, Luke: all of them would welcome Ben back with open arms if he were contrite.
i want what they want. i want their kid back, safe. i want Ben to have a chance.
Rey being a part of what could make that happen is only problematic if you think she's a victim of some kind.

and i do not.

this is a conversation worth having, but if you just want to be silly, we can just post shipping pictures instead. XD

 

Because it was the better most interesting story coming out of TFA? One cannot blame a writer for wanting to tell the best story presented to him.

I’m a feminist who likes the idea of Reylo. I don’t see any “abusive” relationship between Rey and Kylo ( that is just a narrative created by people who don’t understand what abuse really is).

However I take exception to what you’re saying here. It is a misconception to believe that feminists patronise women. Feminism’s only goal, and therefore definition, is gender equality. To say that feminism, as a movement and a philosophy, sees women as brain dead is wrong. It is true that some so called feminists talking about SW are frequently too quick to use the words “abuse” and “rape” when talking about Reylo, but not all feminists do that, me being one of them. SW is a work of fiction. Rey and Kylo are equals (we have 2 films reminding us of that). Most Reylo followers want Rey and Kylo together “after” (and the word “after” is important) Kylo becomes Ben (good). I don’t want any angsty unhealthy relationship. I just want a good story.

And please, let’s stop equating Kylo with Hux. Kylo is a fully fledged character with a conflicted psyche. Hux is a one dimensional character. These comparisons are ridiculous and do not help the discussion.

 

I think you can rest easy @Kylocity.
Judging from @Dawn's posts around the Cantina you can safely infer a pair of quotation marks around "feminists" in that comment!

*immediately realizes that this isn't the time for a man to presume what a woman really meant to say, quickly throws in a gif for the Reylo's and runs away.*