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JJ Abrams Says Ep 8 Haters May Be Threatened By Women

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by ObiWanKnowsMe, Feb 17, 2018.

  1. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    The difference with Rey is belief. Luke had no idea about the Jedi before he met Ben. He didn't know what was possible. Even in TESB he was skeptical about what he could actually do with the Force. Not so with Rey. She had "heard the stories". Then the Force violently awoke within her, unlike it did with Luke. She then witnessed first hand what Kylo could do and saw in his head what in turn was possible for her.

    Luke's training on Dagobah wasn't about finding some secret Jedi technique for lifting rocks. He didn't have to unlock some secret code in his mind to make things move. He was learning to "concentrate" and control his actions. He could do anything - if he believed. For Rey, because of the above, she was able to Force grab the lightsaber and her abilities beyond that come down to her own belief and control. It doesn't matter if it's a pebble or a hundred boulders, if she believes and focuses, then she can move them. Obviously there are limits and restraints. For Yoda, an 900yr old frog, it requires greater concentration and effort to do things. But Rey is a young, fit, able bodied woman that has the same raw connection to the Force as Kylo Ren.

    And so the difference between Rey and Luke comes down to their personalities, not their training. Luke was reckless and always looking to the future. He rushed his training and hadn't "unlearn what he had learned" (hence being skeptical). Rey is more rational and in control than Luke and she believes more than he did in TESB. But she has her own flaws which will undoubtedly add some tension to her journey, such as her naivety & lacking in self-confidence.

    I just don't think Luke teaching her how to lift bigger options would've been necessary or compulsive viewing.
     
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  2. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    I don't mind belief as part of the explanation, but not the whole of it. I think/feel there should need some practice/training to achieve certain skills. I've heard all the theories and explanations just as you've heard all the arguments and disbelief. Your theories and explanations don't work for me, and my arguments don't work for you because you can suspend your disbelief.

    I agree with you that having Luke teach her how to lift bigger and bigger rocks would not make for a good movie experience. That said, nothing stopped RJ from having a month or two go by after the initial meet between Luke and Rey and then fans could have had time to fill in that stuff much like we did with Luke between his movies. RJ chose not to go that route and rushed forward in the story line. He did not have to, he chose to. That's fine, but now some fans have qualms and can't suspend their disbelief, so he's lost some. He's also made Rey's progression one that is unprecedented. Now if she was a Chosen one, if it was explained she was something greater or at least different than what Anakin was, or that there was some phenomena going on that the Force was at high tide or something, it would be easier to accept, but both RJ and JJ have skipped over those aspect of telling the story and that's where the disbelief stems from.

    Fans can come up with explanations until their blue in the face, but the movies don't support most or any of it. Many theories are complete fabrications, fans writing the story for JJ and RJ who I think completely missed the gaps in the telling of their story. So the fans are filling what wasn't there. The fan theories could work, but there are many of them and some are contradictory, overkill and I'm sure some are not what are intended by RJ and JJ. I feel RJ and JJ need to put those explanations and details in the movie... not to the mundane of showing Luke painstakingly show Rey how to lift slightly bigger and bigger rocks, but simply by implying there was training in there, which fans will assume comprised of all sorts of skill sets, from lightsaber training to telekinesis, to mind control ect...
     
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  3. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    There are so many reasons why this couldn't have happened. Here's 3 to begin with...

    1. Had Rey been with Luke that long and he didn't change his mind - he still wouldn't have taught her anything. Or if he did change his mind about training her then he would've just left the Island with her and helped the Resistance. The film depended upon him turning her down and then sacrificing himself at the end.
    2. The Resistance was being pursued by the FO. People were complaining the pursuit was slow enough. Adding a couple of months to it wouldn't have helped, I fear.
    3. Rey couldn't just stay on the Island for that long. She went there to bring Luke home, not train Jedi whilst her friends were mercilessly pursued and in danger.

    If you have Rey on the Island with Luke for 2 months or so then you change the entire story. That's why RJ did what he did. He had to for it to make sense. You want to blame anyone for that, blame JJ and Kasdan. They're the ones who put an able bodied Luke Skywalker on an Island, hiding from the action, for RJ to explain. And as RJ said, that is what he had to tackle first. Why was Luke on the Island and not helping his friends. The only real direction he could go in was to have Luke feel he is a failure and be depressed. What's more, he had to keep him that way to a certain point else if Luke just returned to action, we wouldn't need a new hero (Rey).

    Re: Rey's unprecedented power. You say, "Now if she was a Chosen one, if it was explained she was something greater or at least different than what Anakin was, or that there was some phenomena going on that the Force was at high tide or something..." - that is exactly what happened! "Darkness rises and light to meet it". Her power is a reaction to Kylo Ren and we also know that "there has been an awakening". Clearly, the Force has violently awoken and the much talked about raw power of Kylo and Rey is important. It makes them both special. So straight off the bat, you have your "chosen one but different" explanation.
     
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  4. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    Reply to 1, 2 and 3.... Luke tells her he'll train her but that's it, he's done being a Jedi and she could do with that as she wants.... also, at the end of the time lapse, we could have had exactly what went down in days, with the valid and believable assumption that this conversation was going on throughout they could have even added a homage in there a la Rockey or whatever).... as for the Resistance, they could have eluded the FO for months quite easily (from a story telling perspective) within story, and just been found after Rey received some/enough training.... that was a story telling choice (it's funny how you act it's not possible, its like when RJ was asked why Luke didn't fly his Xwing to crait he says because it was under water... uh... because you wrote it that way RJ...)... Rey's friends could have been relatively safe, Finn recuperating and getting treatment or whatever after his horrible injury.

    As for "light meets dark" it feels contrived to me. When the force needed to bring balance in the PT it didn't just download info into Anakin, so why is it doing it now... he was powerful but still needed training. Years of training. A decade of training. Despite being the chosen one, not just a random.

    Nothing forced RJ to do things the way he did... it was his choice... all of it. Was it ideal the way he was handed his portion, no, but with as much leeway as he had, it wasn't that hard to fix.
     
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  5. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Luke believes the Jedi should end. He is adamant. Why would he believe this and at the same time train Rey to be a Jedi? That makes zero sense. And if he was around Rey for a longer period, training her, he'd grow fond of her. And if over two months Rey couldn't persuade him to help, it would've made him out to be a very cold, cruel character. Things had to happen fast. Rey had to leave before Luke came to his senses otherwise him being on the island wouldn't have made sense and there would be no need for Rey.

    This isn't the matrix. Rey doesn't know all that much other than being reasonable in combat and discovering what she did from Ren. Her raw power, which I was referring to, is about her natural connection to the Force. Rey in TLJ is nowhere near Anakin's ability in AOTC or ROTS. But even if it was, it might just be that Rey is more naturally powerful and doesn't have the hangups and conflict that Anakin had which held him back.

    But your way doesn't work. You can't have Rey knock around with Luke for two months whilst everything else goes on (if the FO pursuit is dropped then surely Leia or someone else would've gone to Ahch-To to speak with Luke?) and then get to the end of it and just have Luke either stay there and not help Rey or go to help the Rebels and thus taking away any need for Rey. What's more, we saw what happened when Luke came to his senses and reconnected to the Force (and he had to be disconnected from it otherwise knowingly leaving Han to die and Leia be in peril in TFA would've been unforgivable). He immediately connects with Leia. He sees Yoda. He decides to act. And had he come to his senses when Rey was there he'd have left the island and again, Rey becomes superfluous.

    The only other alternative was to have a scenario where Luke has been Force drained and is in terrible health and literally couldn't help if he wanted to (which would've been a boring arch). But then we wouldn't have had Luke's great moment of power as we saw against Kylo. We wouldn't have had the legend Luke return to bring hope to the galaxy. You might want to trade that off for a rocky-esque montage scene but I wouldn't and nor would Rian Johnson and a whole heap of fans.
     
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  6. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    For your first point, that was RJ's interpretation, that Luke was adamant that the Jedi had to end. It didn't have to be so. He could have taken it as more of a personal failure, maybe even a family flaw, thus Rey could have been deserving of trying and getting the same guidance he had wanted so desperately so many years ago. Instead of needing the Jedi to end, maybe Luke could have seen it as the Skywalker legacy had to end due to its Vader taint. That's just one possibility off the top of my head, there are many others I'm sure if I had months and a team to work on it and mesh it out. Luke's not wanting to help could have been very similar to that of TLJ where he was simply afraid to make things worse. Even if Luke were persuaded to join Rey, it's obvious that Luke won't be the one to turn Ben back to the light, so Rey would still have had her role. Beyond that, Luke having been cut off from the force could have had repercussions to his ability within the span of this movie, had RJ wanted it to.

    (I'd argue it has gotten closer to the Matrix) I won't get into Rey's ability with the Force. Suffice to say we'll disagree on most points here and move on.

    There is another thread that says Leia could have gone to Ach-to and it would have improved the story. I tend to agree, and RJ could have contrived that had he wanted to, but he chose not to so we'll leave the rest of that discussion to that other thread.

    Leia's responsibilities as general could have been reason enough to have her stay away from Luke (not to give him away to Snoke and the FO, but also to take care of her troops and ships). Luke's reasoning to not go stands in the first explanation, he feared failing due to his bloodline or whatever. Rey's natural talent at the Force could well have simplified things for Luke as he might have only needed to guide her on the mental and intellectual aspects, without needing to show her displays and examples. Most coaches can no longer do (at least not at the same level), and that's why they teach. Rey is quick to learn and believe, so I don't think it would have been a stretch, based on what we've seen, that this could have worked. The end could have played out the same way, more or less, near the end or after the lessons.

    It comes down to this. I think within the expanded lore we've been given, there was plenty of leeway to adapt however RJ wanted. RJ chose to do it this way. His hands were tied in certain ways, but he showed he could untie them with ease if he really wanted to (saber toss, hyperdrive attack, leia poppins, ghost lightning... the list goes on but I need to get to bed). We could have had 95% of the Luke/Rey interaction, all pushed to the end of the however long it was deemed necessary to have her train (montage), and nothing would have been lost. For all we know, there could have been tension between Luke and Leia over the handling of Ben and that's why Leia didn't want to go (on top of the other reasons of her leadership being needed).

    For the extra time of the montage to show Finn recover and Rey train, ect... there was lots they could have cut if they feel that 2 minutes added too much time to the movie... chewie going vegetarian comes to mind off the top of my head (not that I'm particularly bothered by it, but it has no real relevance to the story overall).

    It all comes down to this though. I've put in maybe 20 minutes of thought into this, alone and at leisure and it somewhat works. Give me a team and a paycheck and I could have churned out 10 different alternatives that would have amounted to something similar, and I'm not even a professional writer. I'm not saying this (my) version is tons better, I'm just saying in 20 minutes I can come out with something that works about as good as what was done. It all comes down to choices.
     
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  7. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    To the point he is willing to sacrifice Han and Leia, the galaxy...not help at all? So instead of believing the Jedi should end, he is in exile because he fears the Skywalker bloodline? So what has he been doing on Ahch-To? Waiting, potentially forever, for someone to come and find him so he can train them? It wouldn't make any sense - not to mention the fact that Luke has seen that his dad already redeemed himself and that he himself rejected the Dark Side. What's more, if Luke's issue was that the Skywalker bloodline was tainted and dangerous then what sort of coward leaves exiles himself while his nephew, whom he taught, mercilessly oppresses the galaxy?

    You have to look at what JJ and Kasdan passed on to RJ. Luke exiled himself on an Island and didn't intervene when his family and the galaxy was in peril. If people rejected the idea that he did this because he lost faith in the Jedi (and himself) then I imagine they'd be none too happy if he did it because he was concerned about his powerful bloodline (that has been seen to reject the Dark Side and come back from it - and save the galaxy).

    Afraid to make things worse but train another Jedi anyway (despite the last one turning)? Either way, this whole discussion is about having a good reason for Luke to not train Rey, so your first point here is sort of moot. And for the second, if Luke was persuaded to join Rey then it takes away her agency. Sure, they could have a storyline where she redeems Ben. But just look at Luke in the OT - his masters had to die away so he would be left alone at some point to finish the journey. That is how the hero journey works. Luke had to die. What's more, there was huge importance in the storyline of Luke rejecting Rey because of her background. It added considerably to her conflict and the mistakes she makes in the film (rushing off to turn Ben). If wise old hero Luke was by her side, none of that could happen and the story would be straight forward.

    As for his ability diminishing - this was something I suggested prior to TLJ as a means of explaining why he is cut off from the Force and didn't help his friends. I suggested he could've been Force drained by Snoke. However, had this happened, I wonder how many people would've been sitting here now, bemoaning the fact that we didn't get to see Luke do anything heroic?

    This is not Leia's story. It's Rey's. That's the only point I should really need to make on that front.

    So after leaving his friends and family (and a large part of the galaxy) to die, Luke, who could've done something, sat back and did nothing at all. Then Rey arrived and Luke then trains her for a couple of months to do what he could and should do and then the fully trained Rey goes off, likely with Luke because there would be no good reason for him to just sit on the Island) and destroys the bad guys? It makes no sense and would be bereft of conflict.

    Again, you're not thinking this through. Leia was the one desperately searching for Luke. Doesn't strike me there is tension there. She wanted Luke back from the opening scroll of TFA - she knows he is the last hope for the galaxy. And we know Luke didn't answer that call and was sitting around on the Island. So RJ had a choice:

    Luke heard the call and rejected it. Or Luke didn't hear the call because he is shut off from the Force for some reason.
    Why is he shut off from the Force? If he has lost his power, we'd never get a glorious Luke moment. So it must be self inflicted.
    Why would it be self-inflicted? He fears his bloodline? But then why would he just leave the galaxy to deal with his nephew?
    Bigger than that...he doesn't believe in the Jedi anymore because their actions have indirectly caused the conflict in the galaxy...
    He sees himself as a failure...and his knowledge of the Jedi order has confirmed all this too him.
    So how do we utilise Luke without him removing Rey's agency? He rejects her because of the above.
    But how do we pull him back so we can have this great moment where Luke ignites hope once again?
    Rey rushes off, leaving Luke stranded. Then Yoda arrives and talks sense into Luke. Luke then can do something incredible...
    He can literally take on the FO himself through a projection (had he been there he and everyone would've just been wiped out anyway).
    His effort can ignite the spark, teach Ren a lesson and then leave it to Rey to go on her journey and be the hero.

    That's the story that makes sense.

    A montage that would've made no sense.

    I'm yet to see one that works from you or anyone. Just alternatives that create more problems and would've likely been rejected and criticised by many more fans than we hearing from now.
     
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  8. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Rebel Official

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    Answering your first paragraph, it's funny because that's more or less exactly what TLJ is asking us to believe, insert hate Jedi as an added incentive, but that's about the only difference.

    Luke trains Rey (for say 2months) without the Force, then at the end he does what he does in TLJ (the whole Rey/Luke part almost verbatim). Yoda wasn't dead in ESB, so his masters didn't have to die. As mentioned by many, the force is a fictional construct that is "mysterious". So he could have been weakened until the climax... aslo within 30 years he could have showed up in person on Crait and died there without a significant change to the story (or they could have chosen to do it exactly as in TLJ, just saying the Force is a story telling tool and can be modified by the writer, as we've seen over and over again).

    You brought up Leia, so I'm find if you now want to exclude her (but I'll also assume in 20 minutes I solved those issues and thus you don't want to go into them, which proves my point that any issue with the story could have been solved. It did not have to go the way it did, there was room for improvement.)

    Luke trains Rey because he trained Kylo. At this point he's cut off form the force as he is in TLJ. If you have an issue with this part that's fine, you like many fans have issue with that in TLJ as character assassination of Luke. I get that. But it's no different than what we got. I did not say that my 20 minutes brainstorming will solve all the issues. I just said there were alternatives to the story written that would have worked just as well or better, that RJ wasn't stuck with no options.

    Luke cut himself off from the Force out of fear. He trains Rey without use of the Force, using his knowledge not his ability.
    Luke regains his connection when it becomes convenient (just like in TLJ). Once connected...
    Rey inspires him to come back, once in touch with the Force he feels everything that's gone on and has to answer the call. (just like in TLJ)
    Rey's agency comes when she gets a message stating the dire peril of the slow motion chase (or a better alternative to OJ chase in SW, but that's a different issue entirely... but again, with a little writing could be solved).
    Everything else falls into place as it did in TLJ Jedi, but with a couple months extra added to the time line (or whatever time deemed necessary).

    Is it perfect? No, but neither is TLJ. Take way the story we have, and this is all you would have. I don't see current lover of TLJ having an issue with this asn the story remains mostly the same. The only difference is the added implied time with Rey and Luke for training.

    Lastly, my goal wasn't to come up with something better in 20 minutes, but to show there were alternatives. There were, but if you desire you can steadfastedly keep denying it over and over again and believe poor RJ had no options and couldn't do anything different or better. For many fans, it's obvious the options were there, they just weren't his focus. He had his head canon and that's what he wanted to tell, at the expense of the rest of the story.
     
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  9. Moral Hazard

    Moral Hazard Force Sensitive

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    Nah, it's not really about disagreeing with you (I think there's many different fair readings out there) - just trying to understand is all.

    I only asked what character you were talking of when you referred to a "mouthpiece" for the "crusade" (I'm still not sure:rolleyes:) and where this idea that SW makes "men" look stupid came from.

    No worries if there's no short answers - forget it. :)
    FWIW I appreciate you taking the time to explain your concerns.
    I got their interaction, just not why some blokes take it so personally or find it so offensive.
    I guess I don't see Finn looking "stupid" from his hand holding attempts or asking about boyfriends - no shame in that!
    Funny maybe, stupid no.
    Again, I don't disagree with you, I just don't get the sex-based reading and would be wary of extrapolating the actions of any male fictional character in a movie to "men" in general!

    Fictional narratives often utilize juxtaposition and foils to illustrate differences in characters.
    Sometimes this involves having a character look weak or foolish in order to highlight the strength of another, differences in treatment or attitude, or just demonstrating their character arc as they grow.
    Sometimes these characters are female, at other times male.
    Meh, it's no big deal. ;)
    ST Leia's not without potential failures either.
    She failed to inoculate her son from Snoke's manipulation and chose to risk having hot-shot-Poe as an ally despite his obstinate nature and lack of security-culture.
    A difference is the interactions between Rey and Finn aren't explicitly about their sex and have other plausible readings.
    The one explicit men/women reference (about women always finding out the truth) wasn't demeaning in any way and, even if it was, it's saying something about the character speaking and not the sex of the audience.
    Fair call.
    I'm glad you shared all that earlier evidence from the execs about them wanting to put more females on screen etc - I hadn't heard all that.
    After centuries of men treating women like second-class citizens the odd gag at men's expense wouldn't bother me - even if I did see it in the ST!

    I guess I don't really read ST character interactions as a lesson in feminism so much as a lesson in power, hierarchy, and love in a fictional universe at war.
    Despite this I can see how things could be read that way and assume allowing for such a reading would likely be intentional by TPTB. :)
     
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  10. ObiWanKnowsMe

    ObiWanKnowsMe Rebel Official

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    Whatever. I included the link to the article. People can read it. JJ said what he said. I'm not going to argue it. It's not clickbait either.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 17, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 17, 2018 ---
    What do you want me to do. Specifically quote every sentence he said in the paragraph? It's a headline to generate conversation on JJ's point of view. You and him are both wrong.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 17, 2018 ---
    “If you are someone who feels threatened by women and needs to lash out against them, you can probably find an enemy in ‘Star Wars.’-JJ Abrams in response to some SW fans who Majorly Disliked TLJ. JJ is blatantly saying that some Ep 8 haters are threatened by women leaders. I don't know how anyone sees this as click bait. My title is accurate.

    Btw I love TLJ. I'm just posting what JJ said!
     
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  11. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    Since the the article is a misrepresentation of JJ's statement it's most definitely written in such a way to drive traffic. Just look at this thread. Tons of people didn't even bother to check to see if JJ actually said what the article claimed.

    You did post the quote though, so it's not your fault that people choose not to read.

    You could have mentioned that the headline "J.J. Abrams: ‘Star Wars’ Fans Who Didn’t Like ‘Last Jedi’ Are ‘Threatened’ By Women " is a misrepresentation of the quote, but the thread title is also a misrepresentation of the quote. I don't think you have an ax to grind here so it's not your fault. It's just frustrating seeing articles like this when their only purpose is to drive traffic and not tell the truth.
     
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  12. Oggthrok

    Oggthrok Clone

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    I finally got to watch the movie again on home video, and I think I can give Holdo-haters a pass.

    It's possible to hate a character just because one is misogynistic; I've certainly heard a lot of people hate the new Star Wars films just for having "too many woman and minorities."

    But, Holdo isn't presented as just another hero, who people hate for being a middle-aged woman with purple hair.

    If you took the actress out and recast Admiral Holdo with, say, Michael Ironside, you would still have a blustery commander who talks down to and punishes a character we are meant to view as one of the heroes. He intentionally hides his plan from people who need to know it, invites a mutiny, and only redeems himself by committing suicide in a desperate attempt to hurt the enemy. We would remember him as an officious foil for the heroes, an antogonist who finally did something good in the end, not a role model for young men.

    A comparable character might be Lt. Gorman in Aliens - an officer who no one respects, who's needless lack of information in orders gets people under his command killed, who then eeks out something of a redemption trying to defend Vasquez before committing mutual suicide with her to deny the enemy their bodies.
     
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  13. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    Poe didn't need to know. In fact, he finds out the plan and immediately leaks it to DJ. That's why he didn't need to know. Holdo isn't the problem. She's doing her job and got undermined by Poe.
     
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  14. Oggthrok

    Oggthrok Clone

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    Absolutely agreed. But the dynamic is like an old 80s action movie, where the loose-cannon cop is trying to take down the bad guy by ignoring the rules, and the Chief calls him in and is like "Dang it McBain, I told you to back off, and now you steal a bus and drive it through he mayors front door? You're off the case, and one more stunt like this, I'll have your badge!"

    In reality, we would more than be on the Chief's side; the cop who ignores the rules leads to abuses, evidence being rendered inadvisable, and innocent people getting hurt. But, in the movie, the loose cannon is the hero, and it's expected the audience will assume the chief is a stick in the mud who cares more about procedure than justice, and will go "Stupid Chief! McBain gets results!"

    So, you have Holdo taking command, trying to salvage something from this situation, and a hot head that her closest friend just demoted is sassing her; she's fully within logic, reason, and rank to tell him off and send him away. But, they had to know a lot of the audience would be going "Stupid Holdo, Poe gets results!", regardless of her gender.

    On a different note, I love the female characters, but I wish so many of them didn't blow up. As the proud parent of a little girl who likes Star Wars, it sure is tricky to be like, "Look honey, it's a Tallie toy, with her space ship! She's an ace A-wing pilot, who dies in the landing bay before she does anything. On second thought, lets get this Jyn toy, she was instrumental in destroying the Death Star! Although... it did blow her up after almost all of her friends died. Nevermind, lets read a Forces of Destiny comic! This one is about sisters, just like Frozen! But, they're the Tico sisters, and they travel in space together. What's that? You want to see the movie they're in? Well, they're in a movie, but not together... and one of them blows up in the opening scene, and the other spends the movie coming to terms with her death... On second thought, why don't we just play with Rey, Disney hasn't exploded her yet..."
     
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  15. Steven Lewis

    Steven Lewis Rebel Trooper

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    While I enjoy, but not overly like the ST, the wife actually hates it and only tolerated TFA because she likes Han Solo. I'm pretty sure she isn't threatened by women.

    Personally I think social media and such should be avoided by politicians and such on a professional basis. JJ and others should simply ignore the majority of the comments and leave it to the corporations to give out a statement.
     
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  16. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    I really don't understand this thinking. There's a very loud, very small, and very bigoted crowd out there and ignoring it won't make it go away. If JJ is asked about this group he shouldn't lie and say it doesn't exist.
     
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  17. Steven Lewis

    Steven Lewis Rebel Trooper

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    I suppose its a case of being more clear, so that the 'haters' are not all grouped together in being racist bigots, because they are clearly not. Nothing in life is black and white, and grouping those whom dislike/hate the movie with that toxic minority does nothing but make the majority disgruntled.
     
  18. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    The 'bigoted' crowd is a very small group of people and the problem is when JJ makes statements like that, it sounds like he is lumping everyone who hates TLJ together (maybe it is intentional, maybe not). There are always going to be trolls on social media as it's just the downside of giving everyone (even fake accounts) a voice 24/7. If you pick a fight with them, it never comes out good because you devolve down to their level. I see it all of the time when I'm on sports forums for my favorite teams and there is always a handful of idiots who just spew nonsense, and you just don't engage them. They want to be engaged, they want to be heard, as that is the only reason they are on social media is to get a rise out of people. You have to ignore them like flies.
     
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  19. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    At no point does he lump everyone together. He very explicitly makes it clear he is referring to a very small vocal group. Any place or person claiming he is making it sound like he is talking about "everyone" is either lying or distorting what he said to fit their own narrative.
     
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  20. DailyPlunge

    DailyPlunge Jedi Commander

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    1000% this! The context of the question and the answer are clear. It's silly to be outraged by it.
     
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