JJ Abrams Says Ep 8 Haters May Be Threatened By Women

Star Wars has the most passionate fans of any franchise. So when 10% of them are unhappy you're gonna hear about it.

Let's just look at some of the crazy stuff we've seen:

- People screaming at the director on Twitter
- People voting over and over in online polls
- The moronic petitions

I have to admit I'm surprised that people are still doing this two months after the film.

I'll give them points for passion, but they're still a tiny minority. Most people live/love the film. Claims to the contrary are simply wishful thinking.

 

I belong to very, very small Star Wars community where its main focus is another franchise (BioWare games). That being said, the majority of the people in that thread hate the movie. So, it's not just the "very vocal minority" that hate the movie. I liked the movie, but I think it's more the 10% that hate it. Except their not doing crazy things that you suggest; JJ can't ignore the normal negative responses either by putting it under a umbrella.

 

There's simply no hard evidence to suggest it's a very big group. Even on this site the online poll had it less than 30%. This is a site for hardcore fans. It seems likely that it's a larger percentage of the hardcore fans, but it's less than 10% of the general audience.

Now that Lucasfilm is punching out a lot more movies I think these types will either quit watching or learn that Star Wars is not what they thought it was or something. Thankfully, these movies have been good so far. If the movies were bad and box office disasters there would be a course correction.

 

Funny how no one had any problem when this second grade little ragamuffin did the following:

Built jet-propelled racing vehicles with the engineering prowess of an MIT professor.
Mastered advanced robotics, creating a fully functional humanoid droid.
Raced jet-propelled racing vehicles through dangerous canyons that killed or disabled the vehicles of several other professional career racers.
Beat professional career racers from across the galaxy in a high-profile race.
Flew a starfighter off world that he'd never set foot in before into an enemy starship, used proton torpedoes to destroy the ship from the inside, escaped completely unharmed from the ship's complete explosion and returned safely to the planet of origin.

Yet Rey's abilities are just too much of a stretch.

GET F-ING REAL.

 

**munches popcorn while reading comments**

Carry on, my friends.

 

We’ll never know a true % of fans that loved and hated it. But I will say that Disney believes there is a backlash or they would never be constantly defending this movie.

They never did this to the extent with TFA because THAT was a vocal minority. I loved TFA and most people I know loved it too. Among my friends for TLJ were split down the middle as it’s a very divisive movie.

I honestly never seen this divisiveness among my friends as usually we agree. We all think ESB and ANH are the best, then we rank ROTJ, TFA and R1 and think the PT are flawed movies. But TLJ we are all over the place as some love it, some like it, some dislike it and some utterly hate it with a passion.

 

JJ Abrams answering a question about upset sexists isn't "constant defending." The idea thee's constant defending is a figment of your imagination. The biggest difference in terms of post film coverage between TFA/TLJ is that Rian Johnson is more open to taking questions about his film. This has always been the case with RJ's films. When RJ answered a fan's question about The Brother Bloom it wasn't a news story on hundreds of clickbait sites.

There are scientific measures of audiences who saw the film and an overwhelming majority liked/loved it. This film is clearly more divisive that TFA, but I predicted that would be the case before the film.

 

RJ just admitted on social media he was shocked by the backlash and never saw it coming those few days after the release. But said he stood by every decision in the film. Even HE admitted there was a backlash.

Again, I’m not saying everyone hated it as I think it’s split among the fans. Those polls are useless to me as I don’t know one person who voted in any poll so they are probably as correct as the ones that had Hillary beating Trump.

 

I'm not sure what this has to do with my point that he's always been very interactive with fans about his films. Also, how could anyone can prepare themselves for the type of vitriol he's received on Twitter.

This is off topic, but the polls in the election accurately showed Hillary winning the popular vote by a couple of points. Just because you don't know anyone who has been polled doesn't mean the science is bad.

 

This was a thread whose title and article completely misrepresented a comment.
JJ says randoms who feel threatened by women will find something to hate in SW and now people who disliked the movie think JJ's attacking them.



And so another thread descends into the abyss of haters vs lovers and mary sue-or-not debates.

 

black panther...a objectively better film than anything disney star wars put out since 2016....got review bombed and was only saved when mary sue and other media outlets went apeshit on social media...to pretend the alt right had no role having TLJ get a lower score than phantom menace and helped the backlash get huge is woefully arrogant at best.

 

Are you saying that people like young Anakin? lol... A lot of people didn't, I think the only thing that shielded him was the actors age. If he had been in his late teens early 20s he would have gotten more flack. Add that it was GL vision, it made it harder to argue. I think now that there are new people leading the SW charge, people feel more confident in disagreeing with the new vision or direction and even decisions that are made.

The last point I'd like to make is that Anakin never met with Luke and was awed by Luke's power the way Luke was awed by Rey. When Vader finally meets Luke, he senses his power, but he's certainly not awed. In a new hope down the trench he seems almost annoyed. In ESB he's not in the least bit intimidated as he toys with him to make him feel vulnerable to try and turn him. In RotJ he has a little more respect, but you still get no sense of awe like Luke did in TLJ toward Rey.

 

Okay...you do know that Disney owns Marvel, right? Not sure what you're saying here.

 

This right here is perfect imo.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 18, 2018 ---

I loved Ashoka and Leia, but then again, they were made right, built up right and believably. My incredulity of Rey is not sexist, I even posted several times that I kind of like her or feel inclined to root for her. It's not the gender, it's the development. I find it lacking, that's my opinion and it's not sexist just because she's female. I'm not a misandrist because I dislike young Anakin either. Nor do I hate children. I hate being labeled simply because I have a different opinion.

If you can't defend your favorite character from criticism without having to label people with offensive and extreme stereotypes, maybe the issue you're projecting has more to do with where your mind is at rather than where those criticizing them is at? This isn't necessarily aimed at you, but JJ and RJ and those willing to accuse the fan base with broad strokes of misogyny rather than look at their work and try and improve upon it. Sadly, hearing this from JJ has made me lose a whole lot of confidence in EPIX.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2018 ---

With a caveat that Anakin was prophesized and born from the Force and a Chosen One. Rey, we're not exactly sure since both RJ and JJ don't seem quite sure either. She might be a chosen one, or she might just be a nobody who can use the Force. She's not an Anakin though, she's something different. Anakin still had to train and learn stuff. Rey is both powerful in the Force and has skills that used to need training, but that she never earned. Either the Force gave them to her, she can figure out by vague hearsay or they were downloaded into her from Kylo's mind rape moment. Imo, all three of those explanations are weak, but it would be nice to have one definitely mentioned in a movie so we can now expect this in future SW as a possibility.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2018 ---

TLJ was a watershed moment. I think a lot of fans managed to suspend their disbelief in TFA because we expected a reveal in TLJ to make things make sense. One popular theory was that her memories were wiped but she had actually attended Lukes academy or variants on that theme. Basically she had training and Kylo's mind rape unlocked it.

When that didn't come about (this isn't about head canon, but what fans thought was realistic within the SW universe and lore) in TLJ, fans took sides. Add that TLJ had other issues beyond Rey's development and it set up this storm. I think the large majority of the same fans would have expected that from Ray or Rey. It's not about gender, it's about the heroes journey.

 

what are you implying?

 

I'd rather have a flimsy explanation over none. There's also a difference between plot armor and wish fulfillment characters like Rey. Luke had plot armor but was whiney, had self doubt, and needed help (mos eisley cantina thugs obi-wan dispatches, han's life saving shot, wedge taking a hit as well as biggs dying for him and I can probably find more if I even gave an effort).

The thing I do agree with is that Mary Sue characters always seem to find a fan base. Technically, there's nothing wrong with that, it's a matter of taste and preference. I think it's a thing of personal taste whether you like one or not.

I was never a fan of those types of movies, I always needed an explanation, reasoning or see growth... something. If Rey was older and had known she had the Force in TFA I could have accepted her more. As a very young person who didn't know whether or not the Force was real days prior pulling off mind tricks ect... no explanation, no training that got mind wiped, no possession of a Jedi ghost, nothing. I'm sorry, I need a bone.

Daisy's acting is great, it's the way the character is written that is my problem. It's the one issue on top of the rest of the mess (my opinion) that just makes TLJ unwatchable (to me).

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2018, Original Post Date: Feb 18, 2018 ---

Plenty of people had problems with it, difference was it was GL's vision and it was a kid. People tend to lower expectations as well as reign in criticism when you know there's a young sensitive mind might read it and be hurt by it. The fact that TPM and Anakin didn't get the same treatment as Rey and TLJ is a credit to SW fans to reign in their dislike/hatred of the movie and the cringe worthy parts of it for the benefit of the child.

SW is in different hands now, so I think many fans feel more justified to criticize the work being done in the new direction, new vision, new story arcs and manipulation of the lore. Daisy is not a child, and most of the criticism isn't about the actress but the writing. Rey isn't Daisy's fault, she's JJ and RJ's fault. Which is why they are the most vocal in defending her. So maybe I'm a misandrist for not liking RJ and JJ's work lol.

 

He also....
Got his limbs hacked off......
Failed to maintain the Jedi Code on multiple occasions...
Killed younglings....

Just to mention a few. Yes he was a prodigy but far from perfect. However I would like to point out his backstory "The Chosen One" (which he did fulfill in Episode 6), gave him credibility to do those things.

I think people just expect a little more realism from Rey. Less the abilities and more the depth of character. Less "perfect" would actually make her more perfect, human, if you will. We really haven't seen her struggle at all, like Anakin or Luke did despite their greater prowess on power.

So far we have only really watchded Kylo struggle. Kylo struggled to defeat a novice force wielder and lightsaber user. Kylo struggling to fulfill the duty of Darth Vaders grandson. Kylo struggling with the light. It's been Kylo with struggle after struggle.

The awesome in SW occurs when the heroine is not handed the victory, rather obtains it through adversity, personal setback, and hard work. So far Rey has a phenomenal support group around her, with Kylo unable to best her, so I feel very little danger for her or connection because she is unrelatable in too many ways. She even beat Luke in 1 on 1 combat with sticks. So I feel very little towards her as a character, deeply distressed by possible danger, considering how perfect things remain around her in convenience and story telling. Therefor, Rey has disconnected with many fans.

We wouldn't even be having the conversation or the Mary Sue thing if Kylo had beat her in TFA. Think about that a moment, had she lost that lightsaber battle none of this, the accusations of perfection, any of it, would have existed. Perhaps she was supposed to lose that battle? Something to consider.

Also the "GET F-ING REAL" comment reveals a deep seated hatred of the opinions of others. Hatred leads to suffering.....

 

The Force works in mysterious ways!

In Big Budget filmmaking, they're almost always wish-fulfillment characters. You want the audience to imagine themselves as that character.

The interesting part is when you get a mark for a character, they swear up and down that ohhhh noooo... X isn't a wish-fulfillment character because of X, Y, and Z. Like 'Wedge' taking a hit or 'Biggs' dying for him matters. They're fictional characters. Basically its the equivalent of a Mickey Mouse worker at Disneyland taking off the costume during a performance. Nobody wants to be faced with the fact that this stuff aint real and have the illusion broken, so they deny it up one end and down the other.

Luke Skywalker is a wish-fulfillment character created primarily for teenagers to imagine themselves as more powerful than they actually are. There.. I said it.

Pretty much.. ya. Just see it for what it is. You can run the list of top grossing films and most if not all will have wish-fulfillment characters. That's the business. People don't go to movies to see two people in a room talking for two hours.

Which is my original point. Mary Sue in literary works is bad. In movies, its the business.​

Not really.. you probably just grew old. If you were young again... maybe you wouldn't have cared. I liked a lot of stupid stuff when I was a kid that I cringe at today.

Perhaps a 23andMe DNA test, a bookshelf with Piloting the Millenium Falcon for Dummies on it, that type of thing!

Altered Carbon on Netflix is pretty good.

 

Altered Carbon is.... ok. I think I'm at episode 8 or so and I'm still not sold. It's watchable, but I think had it been a SW I would have stopped. I have higher standards for SW, and I think that's part of the reality and challenge Disney, LFL, KK and any director coming in will have. It can't just get by, we want to be captivated, we want to believe. Help us believe, that's their job.

I much prefer Dark Matter, where ironically I love Two, who's a woman and probably overpowered, but at least there's an explanation to it. People are not immediately in awe of her, or in love with her and she bears issues a plenty. She also makes mistakes that have consequences. She's believable, relatable.

To be fair, Rey's journey isn't done, but in a trilogy, you kind of expect the main character to face major issues, fail (in a meaningful way) and pick themselves up, before the final act. That said, it's only been 3 weeks or so of her life, maybe she's just riding a string of incredibly good luck. Maybe there was a four leaf clover in that Star Destroyer that she kept... maybe there's a deleted scene with a horse shoe. I just think she could have been done better, and this missed opportunity hurts because we'll never get Mark Hamil and Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher in a movie again (ok, maybe... probably Hamil as a ghost in EPIX).

I have to point out two things though. The Force works in mysterious ways is a weak explanation for anything. It sounds very much like a copout.

And Luke is much different than Rey. As much as you identify with him, you identify with the kid in you that complained because he didn't want to go to bed at bed time. You feel for his loss of stability or his vulnerability. His naivety has consequences that show he probably wouldn't survive without help on a harsh place like Tatooine. He takes those experiences and grows. Most of us have felt bullied or threatened at some point (sadly), very few of us have always felt secure and safe in solely ourselves. Then as we grow, survive, learn and gain life experience, we can take on challenges. GL skipped some parts of the heroes journey, and it worked. JJ and RJ totally cut out the first 3rd or half of it and for many of us it doesn't work.

 

Hey @Sparafucile do me too!
You disagreed with a post with 3 different claims...at least put me straight!