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JJ Abrams to write and direct Episode IX

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker' started by Casper11, Sep 12, 2017.

  1. DjChubakka

    DjChubakka Rebel Official

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    She hasn’t said anything about her parents. She can say whatever she wants! Nobody. That’s not a description. Anymore than saying “ they were people”. Yeah thanks. Answers my question.

    And what were they doing with the lightsabers? Sparring? Playing tag? Kylo was LOSING, bleeding out... she didn’t need his training. Finn possibly dead in the snow... kylo didn’t try to kill him either?
     
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  2. Jedi MD

    Jedi MD Jedi Commander

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    Kylo wasn’t losing until Rey tapped into the Force. Right before that moment he had the opportunity to kill her but chose not to. Instead he tried to convince her to join him and let him train her. If it was his intention to kill her he would have done it when he had the perfect opportunity.

    He did try to kill Finn. He saw him as a traitor. He saw no benefit keeping Finn alive. Totally different then what he saw in Rey
     
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  3. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    There's more to it than that. Maz says "You already know the truth" before that. JJ didn't trick anyone. He just did his JJ thing and made everything a mystery box.
    How does Unkar Plutt leave more to be left open? He's a POS who would buy a child. He isn't someone you leave a child you care about with.

    Snoke directly orders Kylo Ren to "bring her to me". He is literally under a "do not kill" order from Snoke.
    That's a stretch to say her dialogue directly to a character is not telling anyone.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 17, 2019 ---
    Which given her age in the Force back, would not really make a ton of sense. Unless JJ makes those parents distant relatives of...someone. Which ultimately feels like a cheat.
     
  4. Jase Windu

    Jase Windu Rebel General

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    Feel like they are doing a reverse parallel thing..so Palps is gonna factor into Reys origin somehow. I think this is where this is going...and I am ok with that.
     
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  5. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Commander

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    She could be both.
     
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  6. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Maz: "You already know the truth. Whoever you're waiting for, they are not coming back. The belonging you seek isn't behind you. It's ahead." Maz only says they are not coming back. She doesn't say anything about Rey's parents because she, like everyone else, doesn't know who they are. Kylo tells Rey her parents are "filthy junk traders" because he sees "filthy junk traders" in Rey's repressed memories. But Rey may not know the whole story either about her origin... I honestly don't know what you mean by the "JJ thing". Unanswered questions are part of storytelling. That's not a "JJ thing". That's a "every storyteller with a bit of skill thing". RJ planted the same kind of mysteries in TLJ. He just decided to answer all his questions within TLJ and left none for ep 9.
     
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  7. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Commander

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    People have greatly over-exaggerated - and continue to over-exaggerate - the degree to which JJ kept things a mystery in TFA, as most of the things that audiences thought were 'secret mysteries' were not in fact anything of the kind.
     
  8. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Jedi General

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    so, Star Wars now has to be filled with mystery boxes to be good?:confused:
     
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  9. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Maz knows they are never coming back. For whatever reason, they do not CARE about Rey at all. And again, it's never actually implied Rey doesn't know who they are. She's just waiting for them to return. Desperately clinging to hope they will.

    JJ is all about the mystery box. It's his form of storytelling to a fault. Everything in TFA is shrouded in mystery with almost no real answers. Why is Luke gone? Who is Rey? What happened with Ben and his family? Who is Snoke? Where did the FO come from? Why is the lightsaber calling to Rey? The Knights of Ren?!?

    It provides the most vague answers to almost every posed question in the film, if any answers at all. Unanswered questions are a part of storytelling, yes, that is true, but so is ANSWERING them and not shrouding EVERYTHING in mystery to make it seem more dramatic than it really is. Hell, even the name "Rise of Skywalker" is a mystery box. What Skywalker? Rising from what? Is it a metaphor? Will the new Jedi be named Skywalker? It's my biggest fear because he doesn't end things. TFA is a great trilogy starter, but it's almost all fluff with very little meat on it. All the meat is Han and his arc because he dies.

    It's almost entirely structured to drive speculation. Hence people still mad/upset about the answers in TLJ and why people are freaking out over "Rise of Skywalker."

    RJ left plenty of mystery for the future. If he didn't people would have a much better idea of what is happening in 9. Just because he didn't leave these huge lurking questions of "Who are Rey's parents?!?" etc doesn't mean he didn't leave mystery. How will the Resistance survive? What will a FO ruled by the unstable Kylo Ren be like? How will Rey restart the Jedi? Will she at all? These are things left open by the TLJ. But people are still apparently really set on Star Wars Maury being the hinge of the new trilogy I guess.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 17, 2019 ---
    You'd think so.

    Largely thanks to the direction TLJ took. But TFA offers very little in the way substantive answers and puts everything in shrouded mystery.
    Rey could have easily been a Kenobi or Skywalker based on TFA and it could have worked, wouldn't be as satisfying as Rey Nobody to me but that's a different discussion.
     
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  10. Maximus

    Maximus Reel 2 Dialogue 2

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    I think it all depends on how you look at it.

    Take a step back and see the explosion of new members to sites like this since 2015.. not only because of the new movies, but because of the unanswered questions and strong positive AND negative views on the movies so far.

    our community is thriving, and JJ's mystery boxes have contributed to that. love them or hate them.. they have benefited us beyond calculation :)
     
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  11. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    I know this and Disney knows it too. It's free marketing.
    It's great for forums and YouTube videos.
    But you also have to accept the downside to this as well. Half the people won't even entertain the ideas that aren't in their speculations that build up for a year plus. And not EVERYTHING needed to be a mystery. The amount of people who did or didn't join here would probably be infinitesimal if he didn't leave Snoke up in the air and gave him a solid ground base in the movie. Not a whole story but just enough so it wasn't the whole Plagueis debate and fallout from him...not being that. You'd probably lose a few but might gain a few excited about this new big bad. Now in hindsight it doesn't matter because TLJ answered it as much as it needed but the point stands.

    The story should always come first and with JJ sometimes I think the mystery does. If you haven't seen his TED talk from 2007 on it, you should give it a watch. Insightful into how he creates.

    I like TFA. And I think Abrams is a solid film maker with a sharp eye for starting a story off but he can be a bit of a sucker for his own love of the mystery.
     
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  12. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rebel Commander

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    RoyleRancor's analysis of TFA is exactly what I was referring to when I talked about people over-exaggerating the degree to which JJ keeps things 'secret'; if you don't look at it believing that it's setting up mysteries that aren't answered, almost everything in it is actually very straightforward.

    People looked at what JJ did with TFA and saw mysteries and secrets where there actually were none, and we know this to be the case based on comments from him and others.

    Episode IX is shaping up to face the same hurdle; people are looking at the Teaser trailer expecting to find that it's misleading and so they're going to find evidence that confirms that expectation.
     
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  13. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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    J. J. Abrams: “If you’re a kid watching this a hundred years from now, five hundred years from now, you see this inevitability of this story conclude in a way that feels thrilling and shocking and funny and emotional and satisfying.” (April 12, 2019 – Celebration 2019 Behind-The-Scenes Reel)



    Q: Is that something like, you've had the rare option of like, you started [it], Rian [Johnson] did the middle, and you're coming back - how is the trajectory of that to I'm sure you had an idea of where the characters would go. Are you going with that where you started? Have you veered off of Rian? Are you sort of working your way back? How does that creative process work?
    J. J. Abrams:
    Working on Episode IX was a particular challenge. We had eight movies that came before it that we needed to draw to a conclusion. Luckily we had characters that felt rich and deep and in a way we hadn't even I felt really hadn't explored as much as we could yet and looking at the unbelievable Saga, looking at the opportunity, and the challenges...there was greater opportunity than there was challenge and so I feel super lucky that I got to be involved working with Chris Terrio the writer to tell the story and bring it to a close. So there was a lot of infinite challenges and pressures but it was ultimately a greater opportunity.

    Q: You're making a film. You're concluding a trilogy which is a conclusion of a trilogy of trilogies. How challenging was it to make...to answer like all the adventure that we've had for forty years in one film?
    JJA:
    That's sort of what I was just saying. Looking at all of them, that was really the ultimate challenge of the movie was making something that's a standalone movie, that is hopefully a thrill ride, emotional story, surprising, fun, scary, heartbreaking...everything. But also something that is in a way inheriting everything that's come before and it's very much what the characters are going through in the movie: it's about a new generation dealing with the good and the bad of what's come before - sins of the father but also the accomplishments, the achievements, what wisdom has been imparted. How do you deal with something that is as terrifying as what they do and that to me is the power of Star Wars: you can tell stories like that.

    Q: How surpising is the final thirty minutes of the film to 2016 J.J. Abrams?
    JJA:
    Well I can't wait for you to see it. I don't want to tell you anything about it but I will say that I think that it is what...it's a third act that I think - we're actually cutting it right now - but it is a pretty exciting chunk of the movie.
     
    #373 MagnarTheGreat, Apr 17, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  14. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    It never ceases to amaze me how creating suspense and mystery can be turned into a negative... Anticipation, doubt, drama are part of the storytelling journey. JJ answered numerous questions in the story of TFA: Rey is not really waiting for her parents, Rey was abandoned and she is in denial. Poe doesn't die in Jakku, he survives, Kylo Ren is Leia and Han's son. He is not bad as Vader, he is just trying to emulate him. Snoke, the big bad with the robe, is manipulating him. All of these are answers. What I don't understand is why would anyone want all the questions that are supposedly going to drive the ST answered in the first chapter... That makes no sense.
    This is just prejudice not fact. JJ Abrams has finished many things. He's written much more than Lost.
    There is nothing remotely "fluff" about exploring the tarnished relationship between father and son in TFA, the workings of unconditional paternal love, the feeling of remorse. Star Wars was always about fluff surrounding very serious themes and for me TFA did that to perfection. If TLJ had a problem was not balancing that act well enough. TLJ was excellent in its serious things but painfully clumsy at times if the "fluff" ones.

    It is not JJ Abrams's fault that some fans aren't grown up enough yet to realise that speculating is fun, that stories need twists and that the saga is not a dictionary or a catalogue.
    You're right, he left plenty of questions unanswered, interesting ones for that matter, particularly about Kylo Ren's mindset, but he gave a sort of finality to many aspects of the story, like the question on Rey's origin and Snoke. I love the way in which RJ answered these questions within the framework of his own story, but this is a story with three chapters, so it is normal that some of the questions asked in the first one will travel to the very end, to bring the whole thing full circle and make it more homogeneous. Rey's origin was set as something important for her character ark in 7 and even though 8 gave some answers I feel the relevance of her true origin in the story has a potential it is hard to overlook. And I’m not talking about her being a skywalker or having any relevant bloodline. I just feel that Rey’s longing for parental figures and guidance could still be be part of her downfall and rising within the context of TROS and the whole ST.
    Why do you feel TFA had a duty to offer a clear answer to the question of Rey’s parents? Isn’t it better for TLJ that JJ poses that question in TFA? That satisfying answer you (and I) like so much would have not occurred if the question hadn’t been posed in the first place.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 17, 2019 ---
    I have seen this TED talk and there is nothing there about JJ giving more importance to mystery than story. This talk has been wildly misquoted and misinterpreted. There JJ gives a candid and insightful glance into his creative process. He approaches story telling as posing questions that you answer as the story unfolds. It's a way to spark the imagination of the audience, to engage them, thrill them. He expands from there and explains how the creative process is a game of illusion and magic. There is no question that how you tell a story is as important and even more important that story itself. The monomyth is a proof of that. Stories are repeated constantly, what stays is how you tell them and the skill you displayed in doing so, through your characters and their discoveries... He doesn't say that mystery is the most important thing, but that a good use of the craft is what provides a good story.
     
    #374 Kylocity, Apr 17, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  15. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Rey's lineage isn't driving the story. Snoke isn't driving the story. The legacy of the Skywalkers is driving the story. Yet it was almost an after thought in TFA.
    Luke was the maguffin of TFA. It was all about getting to him and the FO stopping that from happening. Yet most of the speculative story was "who is Rey and who is Snoke" Less and less of it was about Luke and where he was and why he was there. I'm not turning it all into a negative. That's your own hyperbole. I'm saying it didn't need to ALL be a mystery.

    No blast that isn't fluff. which is why I said most of the meat of TFA is centered around Han? Not sure what your point is here.

    I don't disagree that some stuff from TFA will travel through to the end. Never said it wouldn't. I agree RJ left mysteries for 9. Glad you changed your mind on that.

    Blame the fans for interpreting his mysteries as mysteries? Yes the fandom needs to mature in how they handle disappointment but it doesn't make his mystery boxing less of a thing that exists and that stokes division.

    I never said TFA had a duty to answer that specific thing. It was an example. I'm saying it needed to pick a story and stick with it. Instead it literally just said "here next director, there are 8 things you can run with now, have fun." People still aren't sure what the ST is about because of this. The ST is accused of being aimless because Abrams made the first movie feel like it had no answers.

    It's a good thing I said "I think" denoting a personal opinion on the matter. I'm saying he clearly puts high value on it in his stories and sometimes it gets in the way. All he had to do was cut back *a little* on it and it would have been an instantly better movie. Leaving Rey a mystery is fine but then don't leave EVERYTHING else a mystery too. Ground something. Most film makers have these small flaws. Spielberg is incredibly prone to inducing a happy ending when it isn't the best choice because that's how he is as a film maker. And he's the best film maker of the last 40 years, IMO.
     
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  16. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    I never said they did. I only said Rey’s hankering for family gives a good opportunity to drive the story forward.
    What?! That was the whole point of Kylo? What better symbol of the Skywalker legacy, trained by a Skywalker yet heavily influenced by the legend of another.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 17, 2019 ---
    I don’t disagree with you there. For me TFA was about finding Luke. But it was also about a new generation rediscovering Luke and the Jedi, and Vader, and new characters bringing their own lives into the equation. Rey’s complications as a character (not necessarily her lineage) is a good part of this.
     
  17. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Jedi General

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    Yes it was but the move takes full breaks to pause for things that aren't that for no real reason but to obfuscate the actual story. This is why I said everything revolving around Han is the meat. Because it is. Han and Kylo work so well off each other in the film and it gives it some much needed dramatic weight.
    Kylo is easily the best new Star Wars character since the OT (Or since Palpatine if you count him as a PT only character for the depth of character etc).
     
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  18. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Fair enough.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2019, Original Post Date: Apr 17, 2019 ---
    I felt you were being dismissive of TFA and its depth by calling it fluff and were making little of the Han centred story. It read like that, although you may have not noticed it. I see what you mean now.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2019 ---
    I have no problem changing my mind when the arguments are fair and you had a good point. I suppose I was still talking about the mysteries coming via TFA when I said RJ resolved all the mysteries, but yes, he left Kylo unresolved (perhaps) and added more questions of his own, so fair enough.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2019 ---
    I pay little attention to drama of that kind. It seems to me that people are divided over their expectations not being met and that is just entitled and ridiculous. Fans have to be taken into account when restarting a franchise, but they cannot be taken by the hand... much more if that hand wants you to pull them in completely opposite directions.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2019 ---
    Abrams is not responsible for this. He was given an impossibly short amount of time to come up with an appealing story that engaged a whole new generation and ticked plenty of boxes. It is a bit unfair to blame him for people not being sure what the ST is about... people just need to relax and have a little faith in the creative process and on creators who obviously care a lot about the franchise. KK has said that Palpatine was always in the cards and JJ and RJ have probably known this all along.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2019 ---
    I know this is your opinion and as such I respect it, but I personally did not see TFA as a film with no grounding. Quite the opposite, in fact, but each to their own.
    What I am most critical about is all the condescending generalisations, misinterpretations and dismissive remarks about a film maker who in spite of having an impossible task delivered a pretty good film.
     
    #378 Kylocity, Apr 17, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
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  19. MagnarTheGreat

    MagnarTheGreat Jedi General

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  20. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    I think I'm more shocked that MTV is still around. Remember when MTV meant Music Television.
     
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