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John Boyega Joins Black Lives Matter Protest

Discussion in 'Random Discussion' started by Jayson, Jun 3, 2020.

  1. Rogues1138

    Rogues1138 Crazy Old Wizard

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    I was watching Star Trek before Star Wars came out when I saw the ANH trailer I got it! I had to see Star Wars it changed my life. Star Trek had the first interracial kiss on tv (Captain Kirk and Uhura). Star Trek was a world so optimistic I wanted to live in that world. On the Enterprise Bridge (Sulu, Chekov, Scotty, Uhura, Spock) you had so many races working together. The united federation of planets sounds so optimistic. I hope one day all races will band together. One day racism will end... maybe not in my lifetime but at least I lived long enough to see a black President.
     
    #21 Rogues1138, Jun 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
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  2. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    John is a true hero.

    He won't have a problem getting work in the future.
     
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  3. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    She is now but when this happened in like 2001, she didn't make a movie for about 4 years. Her only projects were movies that had already filmed prior to the event.

    She was hopped up on pills from a notorious Dr Feelgood in LA who would lose his license a few years later.
     
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  4. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    I think they might be referring to the "joke" being her character and the whole general store scene, which is sort of skirting on the edges of stealing?

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  5. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    The entertainment industry isn’t dictated by a bunch of schmucks in a boardroom. It’s decided by the consumer - the people who pay their money for a product. Investors, producers and studio executives don’t just want some of that money, they want all of that money. An ambassador for your brand espousing viewpoints that may be considered controversial, could potentially alienate people from wanting to support your brand. That could certainly make that individual less desirable to hire for future projects.

    It doesn’t matter if Hollywood leans left or not. What matters is the reaction of their customer base. Guaranteed, not everyone is onboard with this movement. And those people will likely represent their disapproval by withholding their dollars. Boyega is absolutely taking a risk here and should absolutely be recognized for it.
     
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  6. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Minneapolis is disbanding their police department.
    Many other cities are pushing through significant reform.

    In the UK they toppled a statue of a slave trader and dumped it in the river.

    The protests are working
     
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  7. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    The actions Minneapolis are taking are fascinating. I really, really hope it works out.

    In fact, I hope a lot of other cities adopt similar policies soon.

    If it's just one single city, it'll be a hotbed of interested parties tampering with it to make the whole thing appear to be a disaster. We've already seen in these protests that the authorities are not above trying to infiltrate and sabotage otherwise peaceful events. There's not way they'll just ignore this in Minneapolis now.
     
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  8. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    And it doesn't help police departments are already in full spin mode over it.
    Defunding the police doesn't mean no police. It means spending money on non-police methods to deal with crimes.
    Councilors and therapists for the mentally ill and developmentally disabled instead of cops with guns and no training.
    Rehabilitation over incarceration.
    No more police tanks and robocop cosplaying police.
    Spending money on healthcare and education. Things directly linked to reduced crime.
     
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  9. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Quite spot on.
    That's why I said Hollywood isn't liberal, it's monetarian.
    It only cares where the money is felt to be.
    Which, as I said before, is why, on the broader scope if we step back and look, we see films every year that cater to both sides of the table coming out of the same studios.

    I am tentatively optimistic. It sure is looking like it's getting traction better than prior movement attempts, but American law enforcement politics are a tangled mess and don't for one moment think the Police Unions are going to sit back and chill while their power and money is stripped away.
    The Police Unions have a pretty big role in a lot of the problems in the United States Police issues because anytime someone steps in to regulate police enforcement, the unions are there to jump up and say no.
    We had about 1500 or so officers last year for serious reprimand (read, termination), and somewhere around 25% to 33% of them came back to the force because the unions stepped in and said they couldn't be removed, and this is because you would think that all that's at play is Law and Policy, but no.
    There's also union stipulates that even a Mayor can't do anything about, and they get pretty stupid.
    Some stipulates are so pedantic that someone can walk away from being reprimanded because they conducted the "violation" in a different geographic setting than is outlined as being subject to the purview of the reprimand. We're talking people walking away because they were in a ditch instead of a bog - that type of pedantic wiggling.

    And keep in mind, unions can call strikes. Think about that. Police forces going on strike. Now, typically, they don't. Instead, they do something worse.
    The union openly encourages officers to do less (humorously, as John Oliver pointed out last night, sometimes this backfires because all that happens is the arrest rates drop, but actual crime rates don't skyrocket - people just go about life as normal).

    So, one thing that people aren't talking about but really, really should be talking about is the disbanding of police unions as part of the reformation.
    They absolutely cripple reformation attempts every time.
    The only thing a union can't stop is a complete dissolving of a police force (which has happened a few times).

    But, yes...it is encouraging to see the passion remain, and see at least some decent level of positive political response.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  10. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    This is good news. I just hope we didn't accelerate the virus in the process though. That's the only thing that's scaring me.
     
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  11. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    Yep. It's not going to be solved over night. Police Unions are bully orgs and will not go down easily. They are hugely problematic and have huge sway on local elections.
    --- Double Post Merged, Jun 8, 2020, Original Post Date: Jun 8, 2020 ---
    Don't worry people made sure of that on the holiday weekend because they're stupid. Check out the protests. Most people are masked up. Check out videos of beachgoers...no masks.
     
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  12. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    My personal opinion is that "defunding" (or better said, reappropriation) is good, but it's not enough.

    A huge issue (in America) is that police forces are disparate, and operate independent of each other, and are funded vastly differently from each other due to being State managed, though partially Federally funded.
    It's a giant mess. You can't even actually speak of "The Police" in America because there's no such thing.
    You have, effectively, 50 different countries with 50 different managements of "The Police".

    When you factor in that in each State you have a Federal level, State level, Municipal (or county, borough, etc...) level, and Union level involvement, multiplied by 50...you have a nightmare game of whackamole.

    So in my view, what you need to do is stop treating them as a State entity, since they interact with citizens on a constitutional level by default.
    They need to be a Federal agency under the Legislative Branch, and answerable to Congressional and Legislative courts and hearings.

    So every current police force should be slotted to be phased out and replaced over time with the new Legislative Branch police force.
    This opens up a wealth of better operational management options.
    For instance, every candidate would have Federal level background checks, and you could centralize training just like the military centralizes its training, and you could afford to do so for much longer and with better quality training. For example, at the Federal operations level, it's not hard to have 9 to 14 week training camps.
    At the State or Municipal (et. al.) level such ideas are simply impossible.
    Further, those training camps should focus on passive strategies and harmless detainment methods (yes...that's a thing, it's not just "non-lethal" and "lethal" as the options...), as well as a drilled in ethos and creed which highlights the sanctity of the citizen as one with the constitution, and the preservation of the citizen.
    Further, firearms should be in a lock in the car, and removing it from the lock should trigger a count and record that it was unlocked.
    As well, when the firearm is with the officer, it should be unloaded and unchambered until the moment of need and not before.
    This is a tactic that the military employs when they are "policing" a foreign city during a theater of engagement.
    The reason is that it sends a message to the people that lowers the fear of approach, as well as forces the soldier to think a bit before pulling the trigger. Fear-firing cases goes down because there's a few more seconds of time between loading and shooting, and that time can present a moment of clarity of the situation which prevents the need to open fire.
    This has not caused skyrocketing military soldier deaths. They are simply trained to handle this method of operation.

    Further, all officers should be in pairs because being a cheap arse and sending out one officer on their own just increases the fear factor and anytime you increase the fear of potential threat in police, you inherently increase the chance of fatal shootings and excessive force. It's just a stupid idea to send officers around on their own.

    And lastly, ALL American officers should take a note out of Western Europe's (most of it anyway) book and wear bright reflective vests, caps, and have highly reflective vehicles which are designed to look like they are open and helpful services.

    I would also suggest reviewing the actual need for bullet proof vests because, according to “IACP/DuPont™ Kevlar® Survivors’ Club®,” DuPont. (take it for what you will), since 1987, roughly 3,000 officers have been saved from serious injury or death.

    Think about that.
    Serious injury is lumped in with being saved from death.
    Meaning, death is only part of that 3,000; not all of it.

    But let's go with the full 3,000.
    So, in 33 years, 3,000 officers have been saved.
    That's great that lives have been saved, but as we've seen, a lot of cases are instances of increased escalation driving the condition to shots being fired.
    It's not that every case just jumps to someone shooting at an officer right out of the gate. That's a bit unusual.

    But, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted, Uniform Crime Reports. 70,000 cases of firearm assault have occurred since roughly the same time with roughly 1700 deaths occurring - 92% of which were deaths from a firearm following the assault (because sometimes the death doesn't involve the firearm, but the assault did).

    Think about those numbers for a moment. The per capita result for officer deaths is about 10 per 100,000. The death per capita of those arrested (not just the Black Community) is 8 per 100,000. The per capita rate of officers saved from serious injury or death is 18 per 100,000 (again...we're conflating injury with death here because the data wasn't separated).

    Also keep in mind that deaths of citizens by police is a statistic that is self-reported by the police currently, so there's actually more reliable data on the number of police killed by people, than there are on people killed by police (*sigh*).

    Anyway, the point here is this is silly. The police are overly focused on self-preservation when in reality they are about as likely to die as those whom they are shooting at.
    So...take off the vests, and put down the gun, and stop escalating the deaths on both sides of the table.

    Anyway...these are just my opinions.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
    #32 Jayson, Jun 8, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2020
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  13. Andrew Waples

    Andrew Waples Jedi General

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    Well, "reappropriation the police!" Isn't as catchy as "defund the police!" Unfortunately, some people can't read between the lines and they assume they don't want a police force. Anyway, if you all have time you should watch this from John Oliver powerful stuff especially towards the end; that women's speech is heartbreaking.

     
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  14. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Watched it last night.
    Avid Oliver fan. ;)

    But, yes, everyone should watch that one...especially the end.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  15. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Hmm, not sure I'm a fan of that either.

    I agree that the states hold far too much power. Recreational cannabis has served to point out that pretty plainly- what someone could get prison time for in my state is actually a lucrative legal business in others. It's silly and wrong.

    But in the case of police, I'd go the other direction. Projects with local community oversight.

    Of course, special protections would still certainly need to be made. You don't need a biased community dealing vigilante justice on minorities or people that they otherwise don't like. But that's getting into "who watches the watchmen" territory now, and honestly... it's not like that's not a problem we don't already have right now anyway.
     
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  16. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    Personally, I loathe all States rights. It's the fastest way to ensure you're not one country.
    But, I recognize that's just the nature of this country and that's not going to change anytime soon (if ever).

    That said, the Federal Legislative Police Force idea isn't a mutually exclusive one.
    It's one that makes sense if you want a nation to be unified in how it approaches policing.

    If you want a nation to think it has a unified approach to policing, and yet have a gagglef### of interpretations and local cherry-picking adoption, then by all means, don't Federalize the Police.

    But yeah, everything you discussed about local operations wouldn't be banned. That's part of that reappropriation aspect.
    If a State wants a localized division of the State, then that's up to them.

    But I still think that if you want to ensure a nationally united interaction between the constitution, citizens, and the law, then you want a Federal force.
    Case in point ... the entire Federal Legislative branch which exists in every State and is held accountable at the Federal level to toe the line accordingly regarding the constitution, and if there's disagreement, there's a clear line of command for following up on appeals in that system.

    Of all of our systems, that one actually works pretty well because it interacts directly with the citizen, and is also directly part of a Federal branch, while at the same time facilitated by the State.
    THAT is a well designed system for unified law.

    Localizing will never unify law and conduct. Ever. It's exactly incompatible.
    You can't make thousands and thousands of people in hundreds of systems across 50 separate states spanning 3 and a half million square miles unify on something by asking them to do it from the bottom up.

    Imagine if a film was made by skipping on the Directors and Producers and all you had was each set crew doing what they thought was the best way to go about the film. That's where we're at. A s### movie.

    As a nation, we're so scared of being ran by a tyrannical Federal authority that we've shot ourselves in the foot 50 times over in a three-legged race where we've tied our legs to the local lamp pole.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  17. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

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    They did the same thing in Belgium yesterday.
    Well done.
     
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  18. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Well, not to get too political, but let's just say that I'm especially glad we haven't had a Federally run police state for the period between early 2017 and (hopefully) this upcoming January.

    The Federal government has done an abysmal job preventing the consolidation of power, and full handing control over the nation's police force to a single partisan person is a good way to make things a lot worse than they even are now.
     
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  19. Jayson

    Jayson Resident Lucasian

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    That's not how that works.
    Federal doesn't mean President.

    Executive means President.

    You know what the President doesn't have power over?
    The Legislative and Judicial branches of government.

    That's why we have three branches of government.
    It's so that when one goes off crazy, the others aren't in that one's control.

    And that's true.
    Everything Trump's doing that's crazy to folks is all on the executive power side and any following President can just reverse all of it in a few strokes of executive orders.

    Which is why I don't like Presidents solving problems that way. If Congress puts out a bill, then even when there's a new President...tough s###.
    If it was solved by an executive order, however, then it's saved from immediate overwrite about as well as a wounded bird flying into a pack of hyenas.

    Cheers,
    Jayson
     
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  20. cawatrooper

    cawatrooper Dungeon Master

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    Oh, I'm very aware.

    I've also been paying attention these past few years.

    That's not how it's supposed to work. The reality of the situation is, those norms were apparently more or less suggestions, and a party corrupted to its core quickly gives in to an authoritarian.

    Again, I really don't want to get too into politics here because it's not really the place, but let's just say that when Palpatine said "I am the Senate," he wasn't kidding.
     
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