Kylo Ren is "not a Sith" only because he has yet to complete his training.

I do not think Ben will ever be a Sith. He is a Knight of Ren so he changed his name to Kylo Ren. If he becomes a Sith he will have to undergo another name change so for that reason among others I firmly believe that he will not be a Sith.

 

I wonder if we can get an "Official Kylo Ren Discussion Thread"

There is a lot that I'd like to speculate, discuss, and many opinions I'd like to see...

A common complaint that I have seen is that he isn't scary because he's a "whiney baby"

I found him fearsome in a different way than the fear felt in Vader's presence. The unpredictable outbursts....I don't know about you, but if someone raged like that around me, whom I knew could tear me in half with a simple thought...would scare the poop right out of me...Poop would be everywhere...There would be so much poop, they'd be calling FN-2187 to sanitize the whole Starkiller base, and they'd be wishing they had toxin filters in the stormtrooper helmets.

Aside from that....I find him incredibly interesting. To this point, especially when regarding the Skywalker family line, it is always the story of a Jedi tempted by the dark side. We now have a character with a bit of twist...a Dark Side user who is tempted by the light. As long as the writing doesn't become cheesy, this can play out to have quite the interesting story and turn of events.

Thus far, we have heard the stories about how basically the dark side is more powerful, but ends up ruling your emotions, turning you into a monster. Kylo has made attempts to embrace the dark side for power, yet he struggles with the force greatly....to the extend that even partially trained, falls to a completely untrained force user who only has minimal martial training with a staff that has to be promptly adapted to lightsaber use.

Part of me hopes to see him find strength in power in the light side and realize he was wrong and that everyone has been wrong the whole time about the Dark Side's power...and that it is merely a tool of manipulation....even then....I remain hopeful that Rey would remain the more powerful Jedi.

 

Maz mentions in the movie that she has seen evil take many forms, including the Sith. I'm kinda hoping that we get a new darkside order. The Jedi and Sith are just religions/philosophies on how to use the Force. The idea that there are other ways to view/access the Force has always been one that greatly intrigues me.

 

Well said. Cannot agree with this more!

 

According to Yoda, the dark side is not more powerful, just easier, more seductive.

On the other hand, I am not sure that Kylo Ren "struggles with the force greatly". In fact, TFA shows him as being more powerful than OT Vader (capable for example of freezing laser bolts in the air for over 5 minutes and fully readiing minds). When he lost the fight to Rey, he was severely injured by a weapon that was shown before to kill everybody else who was hit by it in the movie. In addition, Finn had also wounded him further in the shoulder. Finally, on top of that, Kylo Ren was struggling psychologically with what he had done to his father and was up against a force-possessed Rey (who is the new chosen one).

 

I agree. I just feel like that extreme power that he shows (which I love) seems diminished after he becomes physically or mentally strained...like Rey fighting back, and the injuries at the end of the movie that you mention....Like when people question Rey getting the saber over Kylo....he was injured, emotionally distraught from killing his dad. He finds it necessary, but that doesn't mean he enjoyed doing it. Yes, she shows signs that she will be very powerful...but she is still untrained. His training isn't finished, yes...but like you mentioned....he can stop a laser bolt in the air and lock people down!

I feel like his emotional struggle partly with being untrained, makes his force powers falter.

 

True! It doesn't say either way. It neither confirms or denies. I mentioned this quote to highlight that evil comes in many forms. Being a dark-side user doesn't make you Sith (or not Sith).

 

I agree. I was hoping that the KOR would be more like religious fanatics - not focused upon their own personal goals but rather follow the "dark side" or a figure on the dark side as if he were their God.

I thought they were going with this when I first heard about the KOR. I thought Snoke was Plagueis and that he created the KOR and made them devotees of him and Vader (Snoke being the father/God and Vader being the son of god/messiah/prophet). This was he wouldn't suffer the consequences of the rule of 2 - having an apprentice that would seek to kill him (again). I also speculated that he pretended to be Vader to speak to Kylo and get him onside.

Anyway, I don't think the Sith exist anymore, regardless of whether Snoke is Plagueis. The Sith was just an order. There is no reason why Snoke couldn't have made a new order with new ideas. And if it is Plagueis, then he naturally would've created something different from the Sith.

Also, keep in mind that Vader becomes a Sith in ROTS but still requires extra training from Sidious. Snoke saying Kylo needs to complete his training doesn't mean he hasn't achieved his desired title yet.

 

He's not a Sith because they dont exist anymore, says everyone, ask Pabme Anidalgo for confirmation .

 

I don't think he'll become a Sith. My gut feeling is that the Knights of Ren are replacing the extinct Sith as the new dark side power. Even if Snoke turns out to be Darth Plagueis he may have rejected the Sith philosophy, or parts thereof.

 

I'd love if the Knights of Ren are selflessly devoted to Snoke and are willing to die for Snoke, in contrast to the Sith who were selfish and schemed against each other. It's about time that we see Lawful Evil Force-users.

 

The poop comment had me seriously laughing out loud and reading to several friends. And I agree with most of your post. Well done. I really do think we'll see a whole new twist on the sith and the darkside.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 31, 2015, Original Post Date: Dec 31, 2015 ---

No matter where they decide to take it, It could be interesting. As long as they attempt to fill the obvious plot holes and mishaps of this last episode. I myself would love to see any new direction taken on both the dark and light sides of the force.

 

Sith or not is semantics really.

I've said it many times now - a Sith by any other name...




And regardless of whether it is neo-sith, proto-sith, a sith spinoff, a sith subset, or something entirely different, you can't deny that the LEADER of the KOR admires and is obsessed with..... a SITH, Vader. So there is at least some level of overlap - say nothing of the dark force power similarities, masks, capes, red sabers, master-apprentice relationship, etc etc etc.

So the Sith are no longer Sith because the 'rule of two' is abolished? That is no argument as the Sith existed prior to the rule of two. Things evolve.

And... Maz. Yes, she mentions darkness coming in many forms, but doesn't specifically mention any other dark ideology besides... the Sith. Sure, the empire and new order are mentioned, but more as fascist/imperialist organizations that are oppressive. Fact remains that the Sith (and the Jedi) existed for thousands of years before even the thousand-year-old Maz did.

And JJ did not rule out Plag.... er, Snoke's affiliation. I mean, even Leia mentioned Snoke by name. She is familiar with the Sith. Maybe Snoke is something new, but we know he was around prior when other Sith existed.







The KOR are essentially Sith. Snoke is essentially a Sith. Ren essentially aspires to be a Sith.

 

I would have loved if Snoke said, "The Sith were a bunch of unimportant, pathetic losers."

 

So what was it that you 'disliked' or found incorrect about my post above?

 

Quoted for truth, and it's exactly what I was going to post here. The Sith don't exist anymore. Unless some unfortunate retcon were to happen, Sith extinction is canon. This unfortunate fact impacts the Plagueis speculation as well, though that's for a different thread.

The (Sith) are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. Kylo Ren is not a Sith because that's not a thing anymore.