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SPECULATION Kylo Ren's Unexpected Fate?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Dark Toilet, Oct 14, 2015.

  1. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    Consistent with my penchant for throwing out unusual scenarios that are not at all likely to be seen in the movie (and not even necessarily what I want to see), here is another "What If?" that has recently crossed my mind and is an idea I don't think anyone has ever suggested before (that I know of...)

    Speculation and/or rumors have suggested at various times the following very different and competing ideas: Kylo Ren is an unredeemable character. Kylo Ren is actually trying to protect his sister/cousin Rey from the Knights of Ren and Snoke. According to MSW, in his confrontation with Han Solo, Kylo Ren will
    "silence the conversation with Han Solo forever."
    Everyone assumes that this means that
    Kylo Ren will kill Han Solo, his father.

    But what if this last point is wrong, and all the others are correct? What if Kylo Ren actually commits suicide in some act that he believes is a sacrifice for others? It would certainly mirror OB1's sacrifice in ANH, but from a wholly unsuspected character and place. Perhaps Kylo has in fact hidden the truth of his or Rey's lineage from his evil overlords and knows that his deception will not be forgiven. He would be unredeemable because he takes his own life or dies before anyone can "save" him. While he says otherwise to Snoke and Hux (or other bad guys), Kylo Ren is looking for Luke Skywalker, not to kill him, but to ensure that Luke can assume the role of protector for Rey. Kylo Ren has done some horrible things, but all for a greater good...

    I don't recall seeing anything indicating that Adam Driver is signed on for the remaining films. Benecio Del Toro is supposedly signed on to be the new big baddie, so that suggests that Kylo Ren does not wrest power and control away from Snoke and assume that position (Does BDT?). Some will undoubtedly complain if Kylo Ren dies too early, as did Darth Maul, but would a suicide be a significant enough departure that would be more tolerable for fans?

    Kylo Ren's suicide would bring in a poignant, earthly topic for debate (less so a sacrificial act at the hands of another). Star Wars has arguably always had something to say about moral choices (which is also rumored to be a focus of the ST), but perhaps not in such a direct and pointed way. In any event, I don't recall the idea being raised anywhere else that I have seen, but thought it was interesting enough to discuss...
     
    #1 Dark Toilet, Oct 14, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2015
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  2. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I think that if that were the case, it would hard to set up because with the main focus on the new 3 protagonists, Kylo would need to be extremely developed in order for the general audience to feel the emotional pain that would be felt if Han Solo was to die.
     
  3. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    @Dark Toilet, really cool idea! I will admit that if this happens in TFA, I'd feel a bit cheated due to all of the promotion that Kylo Ren is getting, but hey, who knows ;)
    Also, quick question - wouldn't looking for Luke to protect his sister be his redemption? He might not turn to the Light Side but he might still be redeemed through his protection of Rey.
     
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  4. iluvkoalas

    iluvkoalas Rebelscum

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    I just can't see a son killing his dad in this movie, if Kylo is Han's son, and then going on to be redeemed later, especially since Han is such a beloved character. It makes no sense to me. Even if Kylo lives, there's going to be a lot of angry fans about Han's supposed death and his death by the hands of his supposed son. Something just doesn't "gel" to me there.
     
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  5. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Something similar happened in Man of Steel, except, instead of killing his dad, he let his dad die. Maybe in a similar sense, Kylo "let's" Han Solo die, as in he stands by while Snoke, Phasma, or Hux kills Han Solo.
     
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  6. iluvkoalas

    iluvkoalas Rebelscum

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    Still...That's almost the same thing.
     
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  7. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    That's a good point. I guess I was thinking of redemption from the same standpoint as Darth Vader, namely being brought back to the "light." But you are right, seeking out Luke to take over for him in protecting Rey would be redemptive.

    True, killing his own father would certainly make him unredeemable, which he has been described as, so it fits... But you make a good point, will Disney really go so far as to green light patricide? When you think about it, that seems a bit disconcerting. I don't think anyone wants to see a beloved character die, especially at the hands of his own son. But it certainly would drive the plot and provide motivation for some characters going forward.

    But my suggestion is something different. What if in the moment that Han Solo is trying to talk his son back from the dark, Kylo surprisingly "silences the conversation forever" by killing himself, not Han Solo? It certainly would provide some depth of character arc for Harrison Ford to play, which is what he felt Han Solo failed to do for him in the latter part of the OT...
     
    #7 Dark Toilet, Oct 15, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2015
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  8. iluvkoalas

    iluvkoalas Rebelscum

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    That's an interesting point about Kylo possibly killing himself. Yeah, maybe... Good point. Who knows? And also, about Disney "green lighting" patricide, I can't see that either even if the movie isn't supposed to be "Disneyfied." Plus, I was just reading a quote somewhere by Harrison Ford's son, Ben, who said that Harrison wasn't against being in more Star Wars films. So, that means something, I think...
     
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  9. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I can see Kylo going into exile at the end of TFA trying to connect with the force on skellig and Luke either leaving there or helping Kylo and Ren but in secret without the rebels knowing.
    --- Double Post Merged, Oct 16, 2015, Original Post Date: Oct 16, 2015 ---
    Maybe Rey doesn't approve and there's a weird conflict about it.
     
  10. Derth Nadir

    Derth Nadir Rebel General

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    I'm going to say there is 0% chance of this happening. I'm going to say there is a 99% chance that Kylo takes out Han, unless Abrams is really messing with us.
    I don't think Disney cares about patricide, especially when it comes to a Star Wars film. They have had more than their share of parental deaths in cartoons, including fratricide, and Star Wars has included the attempted murder/mutilation of a son by his father, the attempted murder of a father by his son, the torture of a daughter by her father (though he didn't know she was at the time), The slaughter of an entire village including women and children by our hero, the off-screen murder of little children by our former hero, and the Force choking of a pregnant wife by her husband - our former hero.
     
  11. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    You are, of course, correct about these dark elements being included in both Disney movies and Star Wars. However, I would note that Disney cartoons, while including parental deaths, have yet to show them at the hands of one of their children. I'm not sure we will see that happen, but of course it is possible. While Star Wars has had more than its share of dark moments, that was before Disney...

    The question is, will Disney leave Lucasfilm alone to create whatever dark story they want? I don't know... You are probably right about what will happen, I just thought the "silencing the conversation forever" bit doesn't have to mean Han Solo is killed. It is at least possible (not probable) that Kylo Ren kills himself... and I had not heard anyone suggest this possibility. Again, I doubt that's what happens, but I thought it an interesting possibility to discuss, so thanks for weighing in!
     
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  12. Derth Nadir

    Derth Nadir Rebel General

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    Speculate away. That makes the wait all the more interesting.
    My point was that even the Disney cartoons have included familial deaths, so a live action series with a history like Star Wars has a very good chance to have a son kill his father. If they can have a boy shoot his rabid dog, I think they can let Kylo kill Han. Disney knew what they were buying and I doubt they want to water it down.
    And remember that Disney released R-rated films under their sub-companies such as Touchtone Pictures, and co-produced films like Dragonslayer, which has nudity and dragons eating people alive onscreen. You also had something like Roger Rabbit that had Disney cartoons running around in a world with Jessica Rabbit. And the Disney logo will not be on the front of the film.
    I also don't think they could successfully set up Kylo to be the new Vader-like villain AND have a turn at the end. If would feel like a cheap attempt to not kill off Han.
     
    #12 Derth Nadir, Oct 16, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2015
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  13. Rieekan

    Rieekan SWNN Hawkeye
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    I always speculated that Disney wanted to expand their portfolio towards more grown up themes, since MCU fills a gab between teens and mid 20s maybe Star Wars could aim for older audiences, plus their kids with the cartoons. Star Wars has seen worse then the murder of the father, Alderaan genocide wasn't really shown but i bet there were billions of lives including some kids and their parents.
     
  14. ChrisI

    ChrisI Force Sensitive

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    Well, I've always felt Han would die in this film, even before MSW made mention of it. As for son killing his father, I can see it and I can see it in a Disney film.
     
  15. iluvkoalas

    iluvkoalas Rebelscum

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    Or maybe another villain tries to kill Han, and Kylo protects his supposed father, thereby silencing the conversation forever...
     
  16. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Kylo is the big bad of the ST. Don't be fooled.

    He will kill daddy Han. And sometime before the end of TFA he will have killed Snoke too.
     
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  17. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    I fully expect this is correct. The way MSW described the scene as "the conversation being silenced forever" just leaves enough ambiguity that I thought it was fun to consider other possibilities...
     
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  18. StarWarsFan899

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    Kylo will die by Finn's hands in epsiode 8
     
  19. Natalie

    Natalie Rebelscum

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    Voldemort killed his dad in the HP series. Also you could argue that he was conceived from rape cause his mom used a love potion on his dad. And those are way more aimed at kids/teens than SW.
     
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  20. Emperor Abrams

    Emperor Abrams Rebel General

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    Well, at least this would be better than what happened in Man Of Murder as Kylo is a bad guy at least, and Clark was supposed to be good, lol.
     
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