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Leia, not Rey was the most powerful?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Darth Chewie, Jan 13, 2018.

  1. Darth Chewie

    Darth Chewie Rebel Official

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    With all the talk of Rey and her insane natural force abilities, and I believe there is on thread that suggest that she is the most powerful force user ever, are we missing out on a discussion on Leia in this same regards?

    Yoda once proclaimed that Luke was not the last hope and that there was another? I believe Yoda always wanted to train Leia over Luke, and now we may have seen why. Leia is frozen dead in the vacuum of space, and yet she is able to wake herself up and use the force to fly back to safety.

    Anikan's sole purpose of going to the dark side was so that he could keep the ones he loved from dying. He wanted the power to bring people back to life. The ability to give life back, would arguably make you the most powerful person in the galaxy. Leia does this to herself, while she's.... well... basically dead.

    So this discussion here is not if you thought this scene was silly or poorly executed, but rather it is a subtle nod to the fact that perhaps Leia was indeed the 'New Hope', that it was her that should have been trained by Obi-wan and Yoda, and that she had the potential to beome the most powerful force user.
     
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  2. LadyMusashi

    LadyMusashi Archwizard Woo-Woo-in-Chief
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    The reason why Yoda wanted to train Leia (confirmed in From a Certain Point of View) was not her Force potential, which we can assume equals Luke's, but the fact that she was serious, responsible and already fully dedicated to a cause while Luke was immature, craving adventures and always looking at the horizon (something he didn't grow out of, it seems).

    It's hard to measure the Force. If we want to get technical, what Leia did equals Luke pulling the lightsaber from the snow - there is no weight in space, so pulling herself would require very small pull.

    I also never got the reasoning behind 'Rey as the most powerful Force user ever'. Why? Because she is a bit quicker on the uptake? Can lift some rocks? Size matters not.

    I'd argue that both Anakin and Luke and other numerous Jedi from the past were more powerful than both Kylo and Rey: Luke and Anakin due to heritage AND training, others due to training alone (better tuned in with the Force). But, Luke was handicapped by a brief brush with the Dark Side and cut off himself from the Force, which is why the Force gave Rey a speed course, nothing more. By sheer Force potential, if Leia's potential equaled Luke's, you can argue that she had the potential to be more powerful than Rey, but she lacks training. And so is Rey, so perhaps at the time of TLJ Rey still has a slight advantage - because she was chosen for the 'awakening'.

    But, again, it is hard to measure the Force. You can talk about and perhaps compare potentials, but incredibly talented person in any field without the training will almost always be defeated by an average person who is master in the field, unless one side is wounded and Force drives the other - but that should be seen as exception, not the rule, I think.

    All this rambling was to say: Leia had equal potential to be A New Hope as Luke did, speaking about Force potentials alone. Obi-Wan (and perhaps the Force) decided differently. And I have no doubt that she would do great during the training, perhaps much better than Luke. That being said, I always saw more of Anakin in Leia and more Padmé in Luke, so it would have been interesting to see her Dark Side trials.
     
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  3. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    Leia is very strong in the Force.

    She used the Force in The Empire Strikes Back to mind-link with Luke, sense where he was, and order the Falcon return to Cloud City to retrieve him.

    As of Return of the Jedi, Leia was not so sure: "You have a power I don't understand and could never have."

    Luke famously revealed to her, "The Force is strong in my family...," but Leia, at that point, was completely committed to the Rebellion and had been since before A New Hope.

    One thing I think makes for a very powerful observation is:

    The Rebellion was successful in great part that two Skywalkers were on the Light Side of the battle.

    Vader and the Emperor only knew of Luke as of Episode V and VI.

    They knew of Leia as an Organa, a part of the Rebellion, but not much more than that.

    Nevertheless, I believe Leia, just like others not traditionally considered as full "Force-sensitives" (such as perhaps Han flying through the asteroid field), could and did tap into the Force subconsciously and was guided partly by it, very much in the sense of how Obi-Wan explained the Force to Luke when they first met.

    Had Luke fallen to the Dark Side or failed in some fatal manner, perhaps Obi-Wan and/or Yoda would have then appeared and appealed to Leia as their "other" Hope.

    Outside the films, Yoda is suggested to have preferred Leia over Luke as a possible padawan:

    See this story summary from Wookieepedia which references the recently published From a Certain Point of View:

    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/There_is_Another
     
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  4. Sparafucile

    Sparafucile Guest

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    Okay, I'm not a fan of the whole Leia Poppins part. I would not have minded had Leia been introduced as a Jedi in TFA, lightsaber on hip and all. So it's no dislike of Leia as a character, or based on her gender or any perceived lack of ability she could have had in the ST. I think the book was wide open on Leia and JJ chose not to have her go down the Jedi path. Fine, no problem. Then we have TLJ and her bridge get shot up and her forcefully exploded into space. Again, had she been conscious, I could have probably suspended my disbelief enough to swallow she force pulls herself to the ship. I'd be able to compare that to Luke's moment on Hoth dangling from his feet. I mean, Leia could have had some teachings from Luke and she could have figured some things out on her own over the 30 years or so.

    My issue was that Luke had time to get a basic understanding of his surroundings and the danger he was in dangling from the Wampa's ceiling. He had that time, Leia did not. Unconscious, in space, super freezing temps and explosive decompression, not being able to breathe, not knowing where she is (have any of you ever been knocked out?), her age (Luke was in his prime...Leia is not), no apparent training and quite possibly a willful desire to not want to learn the ways of the Force. Then it was done badly, no airlock, no blue light showing some sort of field keeping the atmosphere in the ship when they "rescue" her, just bad decision on the whole thinking imo.

    All that said, I think Leia's potential is not greater than Rey's. Luke nor Leia are chosen by the Force, they are offspring from one who was Chosen (unless I read or hear otherwise, I'm guessing offspring have less than the Chosen themselves). Maybe the Force intended that as part of Anakin's prophecy, but we don't know that. I can see Leia and Luke possibly having had close to equal potential to Rey, Rey should be on a level as Anakin (if all we're told so far isn't some sort of elaborate misdirect). Luke lived up to his potential, Leia rejected it and instead of learning how to play Tennis, decided to learn how to play chess. Rey, despite her advanced age (in Jedi training terms) is embracing the Force once the opportunity is given her. Leia still has more training than Rey even if she always fought against it, simply by watching Luke and what he could do. Simply by having 30 years of knowing she could do some freaky space magic.

    So no, Rey is superior to Leia, at least in terms of raw power. Leia has just been exposed to the Force more and has a better idea of what it can do. Rey is an anomaly in that she's doing what she's doing with little knowledge, certainly no first hand experience (unless they do some exposition there) of what the force can do. What Leia did was distracting enough to make me unable to suspend my disbelief, but I think it's more of a directors want to make things look cool than an impossibility. It was badly executed and RJ took a few liberties, but I think he could have done something similar without having to try so hard to make Leia look epic.
     
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  5. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Everything gets handed 2 Rey with little 2 no effort. Luke meanwhile struggled 4 anything.
     
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