Leia Poppins debate

After several months, I still just don't understand why this scene gets so much flak.

It just seems like people are reaching so hard for something to ridicule. I mean, what do you think a force pull in zero g would look like?

By the way, did this in one of the Cad Bane episodes, but with a nice little spin and flourish too, to let you know that he's an extra fancy man.

 

It's because it broke the lore.
It would probably have helped if we had a novel about Leia's training. But right now, it's just ridiculous.
If Leia was so strong why didn't she kill Snoke with her Force pull?
Pull him apart literally from across the galaxy. Why not?

 

What lore did it break exactly? She just instinctively used the Force, much like Luke when he blew up the Death Star. How much training in the Force did he have?

 

Luke training Unknown time enroute on the Falcon traveling from Tatooine to Alderaan. vs as far as we know, none.
Blowing up death star: Luke used to bullseye swamp rats. vs. not blowing up death star.
age while training starts: 18? vs not even started.

 

Honestly.

You equate a tiny pull (remember is is 0 resistance in space) to pulling Snoke apart, then again pull him apart across the galaxy.

Sounds like you are creating a crazy false equivalency. In the newer books she dabbles.

http://time.com/4403117/star-wars-princess-leia-the-force/

 

For all we know, that training could have been like half and hour. And Leia could feel Luke through the Force during ESB.

Bullseye with what? An X-Wing? Shooting a gun and dropping a bomb are different things. As far as we know, that was the first time Luke has flown and X-Wing and he took a shot without a targetting computer, that the Red leader (an experienced combat pilot) could not with the computer.

 

I even kinda saw it more like an "adrenaline, mother lifting truck off of baby after car crash" kind of situation.

I know some people have this really rigid view of the force, but again, I have yet to see someone actually be able to confidently describe how the Force actually works in practice, so I don't see the issue there.

 

Maybe people think Leia was stationary and it was actually the ship being pulled to her?

She did something a 22 year old, half conscious, half frozen, upside-down Luke managed back in ESB . . . a basic Force pull. So much broken lore!!

Still looks pretty silly though

 

Sort of. Leia was in weightless, frictionless space a little pull will go along way

 

Some people are struggling with the fact that a lot of time has past since Return of the Jedi. Which is bizarre to me. We know Leia can use the force. We don't know how much Luke passed on to her, but it's been 30 years. If Luke and Rey can grab objects with little or no training why could Leia simply grab the ship with the force? I cheered when I saw this in a theater. I didn't even think it was an issue until I saw the hate brigade online.

 

I thought the only point of contention was with how silly it looked, not the feasibility of the act itself. Weird. I honestly think a lot of people are just looking for things to not like about this movie. Whether it makes sense or not.

 

There has been a lot of debate as to is it even possible for a human to survive at all in space. Science says yes, not to mention she is Force sensitive and movie showed her bracing herself before explosion.
There has been a lot of debate as to how could she force pull herself into the ship. She is weight and space has little to no resistance.
There has been complaints why when the door opens everyone doesnt get sucked out. People missed the 2nd door. It is briefly shown in the movie, but easy to miss. Also in the novel.

Then some people dont like the look of it. Which is hard. She either looks a bit like Mary Poppins or Superman. Not many other looks that could be pulled off.

 

get over it...

 

I personally didn’t interpret her survival being attributed to the Force but her overall resolve. It’s a testament to her character. She’s Princess f*ing Leia: a tuff-as-nails broad who had better things to do than “go quietly into that good night”. Getting herself to safety was the Force. Giving the middle finger to death, that was all Leia. Just my take.

It seemed like common sense to me. The ship has far more mass. If you pulled on it, the net result would be you going to it not the other way around.

I figured it was the same reason no one gets sucked out of hanger bays when those doors are open. There’s probably force fields (or whatever) that no one ever mentions. Maybe they kicked on just a bit after the explosion. I don’t know. Seems reasonable enough to me.

And that’s the camp I’m in. I thought it looked goofy as hell. But, I mean, I certainly don’t know how it could have been improved. A bigger cape?

 

I've only seen the movie once, but I remember how I felt when I first saw it.

The bridge gets blown up, we see Leia unconscious in space, skin freezing. I feel sad, figure this is the farewell to Carrie Fisher (felt bad for RJ having to have to deal with that).

Then she wakes up. At this point I feel a bit cheated because as soon as she wakes up I know she's now going to survive (bear in mind there's already been a couple subversions by this point, so I'm not overly thrilled to begin with). I don't understand how she regains consciousness in the vacuum and cold of space. Then she uses the force and pulls herself to the ship. Again, not so much an issue of her using the force this way, but I'm already feeling duped, and her using a power while breathless, freezing and concussed seems unlikely. Anyhow, stupid visual, I laugh as does most of the audience. It would have been nice to at some point see her with a lightsaber, even if not ignited, just to show she has had some training. Whether she's wearing it, or she's in her room and she puts it away.

Anyways...

Then she gets to the doors and gets brought in. I didn't see any second door or force field (I'll be looking for it on my second viewing when TLJ comes to Netflix) so I laugh harder and am now completely out of the movie... again.

I'll admit I did have some ignorance here and didn't realize humans can survive short exposures to space like that, which didn't help the feeling in movie. Is that my fault, sure, I was ignorant, but again, it would have helped had RJ done some foreshadowing and we seen an accident where an animal or something wound up in vacuum so we're better prepared for this part of the movie.

All in all, the scene looks ridiculous and is implausible. The implausibility I can live with, this is SW after all, and this was far from the worse offence of the movie. The scene could have definitely been done better though. Don't ask me how, I'm not a film maker or anything, but then again, that's their job, not mine.

Then I came on here and read that she force bubbled herself while unconscious and all sorts of other theories. That seems like a pretty major power to me, especially unconscious and/or concussed. I'm not sure if it's in a book or if it was a fan theory.

Anyways, I've mostly forgotten about this issue, due to all the other issues I find far worse. In the end, I find that in the world of SW, I guess it's possible, but I think it's stretching and unearned by RJ. I think he would have needed to at least do a bit of foreshadowing and a short scene to explain she has had some rudimentary training by this point, a throw away line could have worked.

Edit: I think this is the case with a lot of issues I have with TLJ. RJ doesn't use much foreshadowing, and often assumes fans will jump to the right conclusion and give him the benefit of the doubt. I think he (or any other director) can safely assume the fans will do this once or twice during a film, but I think RJ asks us to make those leaps a few times too many. Obviously it worked for some of the fan base, and not so much for another portion of it.

 

I saw this movie multiple times in a full house and not once did I hear anyone laugh. I'm sorry, I simply do not believe that "most of the audience" laughed when you saw this film.

 

This is like polar opposite of outrage, just accept everything, even something as unbelievable as a flying Liea in space. You have to cal these things out when they happen; it was too weird because I saw it with my eyes which don't lie.

 

How is it less believable than old men, that vanish after dying, worms, living on asteroids, pulling out an X-Wing out of a swamp, bears with spears and stones defeating an army with laser guns or shooting lightning from one's fingers?

 

You have seen only once. You need to see it again. Watch her as soon as they cut away from the missiles approaching the ship and she knows they are about to hit and you can see that she prepares herself, and that is the foreshadowing. Not for one moment did I think she was going to die in that scene. After all the trailers showed her on Crait. I would have felt incredibly cheated if that was how she went out. I could only imagine the uproar over that. Then the hallway she enters is really clear on further viewings. So they simply shut one door and open the other. Has been done many times in movies involving space craft. In the novelization it is spelled out just that way. Close one door and open the next.

Why do people believe that the Force is all combat. I have always assumed the first Force users didn't have Lightsabers. I think it enriches the Force and Force users if some of them don't use Lightsabers. The OT started with Lightsabers to setup combat. We don't need Leia as Lightsaber wielding Jedi Knight. She is a leader and part of what Yoda said in ESB and what Leia is trying to teach Poe is "Wars not make one great". We have seen since ESB that Leia has Force abilities.

 

I intend to watch it again once it gets to Netflix at the end of this month.

I agree that the old Jedi probably didn't have lightsabers, but at the same time I don't see lightsabers as purely a weapon. It's a shield and also a tool. Even if a Jedi wasn't super skilled at its use, even as just a tool it would be a benefit to have one. It's basically a knife, and though people often associate a knife as a weapon, it is used far more as a tool than as a weapon in day to day use (great at melting doors, opening up tauntauns, ect...). I honeslty didn't watch or pay much attention to the trailers, I tried avoiding them as I wanted to be surprised. I very much was lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 11, 2018, Original Post Date: Jun 11, 2018 ---

So you believe I'm a liar, enough said. Nothing else to talk about here .

But for clarity's sake...

I laughed, my brother laughed, my 3 nephews laughed and my son laughed. I know the people in front of us did too and I heard some elsewhere in the theater. It's possible they laughed when they heard others laugh, that seems to be a pretty common reaction. Anyways, I didn't count heads, but I did hear quite a bit of laughter, so most of the audience is an assumption based on what I heard and the reaction I saw around me.