Leia Poppins debate

taking a poke at those that don't agree with you? you know full well that a large amount of older, hard core fans absolutely love TLJ (me included).

why so personal about other people's opinions? do you want me to change my mind about TLJ? or would you prefer that i denounce my fandom and sit quietly in the corner enjoying my space battles with powerful characters with powerful swords?

if people aren't giving characters derogatory nicknames, they are trying to put members into groups.. "you're a liker, you go over there and post in this thread".. "you're a hater, you sit there and use these threads".. "you're a liker so you aren't a real fan".

seriously Cantina... when does this crap end?

 

Maximus I think there is no worst reason, to do or do not something, than arguing "poeple think...". Hey man, when you do something, you first do it for you, and not for the others.
This is not a moral lesson I'm giving to you I just want to mean: Rian Johnson did it this way because he felt it this way - not because he has previously wondered if the fans would like it this way.

I do not agree.

I do not agree either.

In both cases, to me, it appears that the Force used Leia, and also the Force used Luke, without any of them willing to actively use it (I just speak of these two precise moments).
In the first case: I state the Force used Leia , because Luke just sent a desperate SOS, and I'm convinced the Force all alone carried this SOS to Leia. Remember, at this very moment, far away in the Falcon, Leia is not actively using the force : she is just hit by the telepathic message. This is why I state "the Force used Leia".
Same thing in the second case: Luke is not in the mood "I am using the Force, I will use the Force to shoot", no. He missed his first shot, and he is just desperately searching for the right moment to fire again, interrogating all of his screens and electronic devices that should help him to properly press the button. And then, the Force hit him as he absolutely wasn't waiting for it, carrying ObiWan voice.
As it was for Leia, this is not what I call an active using of the Force.

So, I share the following point of view : Kylo did. Yes, the only force user behind Leia spacewalk is Kylo Ren.
Yes, I firmly believe Kylo saved his mother. It's established he wasn't able to fire her before.
Yes, I firmly think that Leia is "just receiving" a force move and not using it.
Yes I believe this, and we are shown the "force antenna", I mean that little finger that slightly moves in the vacuum.
Yes I believe this is why Leia is so static during this move: because she is pulled by the Force, and the Force pulls her because Kylo commanded it to do so. Leia just lets herself being carried away...

In the movies, we are never shown Leia as an active force user. That still remains in episode 8, where Leia still is not a powerful user, but she's still a powerful receiver.
At this time, we already have been proven this twice : first time with his sibling, second time with his son - both time with the same blood as hers.
Please note there will be a third time : when Luke will contact her again thru the Force, pulling her out of the coma.

That's my thought.

 

Well that's a very immature narrow mind view of thinking. I would be in the group that you just highlighted. I grew up watching the OT on VHS pre-special editions, I read some of the old EU but I never was invested in it. I'm personally not bothered about it being wiped. I enjoyed TLJ. Sure it wasn't ESB but it was better than Episode 1 or 2. People with your mind set is what is wrong with the SW community. Trust me, there is way more offense in the old EU that don't even compare to TLJ. You honestly enjoyed Chewie dying from a planet crashing into him?

 

I'm a hardcore fan who has stacks of EU books and I love TLJ. I don't think its good to use the "overall" label on fans, as there's so many SW fans with diverse interests.
Also there's many younger EU readers who also like the new Disney content.

 

I'll challenge you on this point. The original Star Wars starts in media res and it works fantastically. In my opinion, here's the real problem with the sequel trilogy: we jump into later chapter of an already existing story, and information we need is artificially held back in a way that makes it feel like you've missed some middle chapter. We see this most strongly with Snoke; our heroes know who he is and talk about him as if we should know.

In that sense, I can see your point about this Leia moment. It would have been stronger with build-up.

 

THIS. Criticizing TLJ for certain things which are far worse on the EU, then going to praise the EU is absurd.

 

I just don't get the hate of this. From an in-universe perspective, we have someone we know is slightly force sensitive finally tapping into that.

She's in space, so she's not flying (I'm sorry, but this should be obvious, kids).

If anything, I saw it as a latent thing, not unlike the adrenaline rush of a mother lifting a car to save her child in a crash, or Aang's Avatar state in ATLA.



Really, just seems like the peanut gallery complaining for the sake of it again.

From a more meta perspective, it was a pretty emotional roller coaster ride. I thought for sure Leia was a goner, given real world repercussions. Seeing her in this moment of triumph as Leia's theme plays (and that brilliant foreshadowing of her parting through the Supremacy's hologram) is one of the highlights of the film for me, to be honest. Even if I did look a bit off like people say (I still don't think it did) I wouldn't fixate on that and let it ruin the moment for me.

And if you really want to talk about something silly, I think the saber copters will do (still couldn't ruin Twilight of the Apprentice, though).

 

It's just me, but if I had to choose between Chewie or Han (in that context, everyone else on the Falcon), I'd choose Han (and everyone else on the Falcon).

I'm pretty sure that if I were a movie purist, I'd love TLJ. alas, I read the EU before TLJ came out, and shame on me, I guess, for actually added Most on my post above. Imagine if I didn't, they'd be screaming that I meant everyone.... And anyway is it my fault that any reader would think of themselves as a member of "most"....

 

whether it's "most" or "some" or whatever, why do there have to be camps that likers or haters have to come from?

i've been a hardcore fan since i saw ROTJ in 83. From TLJ i wanted:-
Luke to survive
Ben redeemed
Snoke's back story
Finn to be a major character
Loads of R2 (duhhh! )

i didn't get much of what i wanted lol... and somehow i loved it and i'm not sure why - i really don't.

i'm sorry if i jumped on your post unfairly.

 

For sure, and I think it's also a bit unfair to claim that someone isn't a true fan if they disliked TLJ. I think, for the most part, we're all fans here who want the perceived best for the series.

That being said, anyone so jaded as to actively root against future products just because they haven't liked what we've gotten so far- them I have an issue with.

 

Luke didn't blow up the death star with the force though, it helped him with his "aim", a whole other ballpark if you ask me. That's essentially the same as jedi's deflecting blaster bolts with their seemingly lightning fast reflexes (which iirc had something to do with jedis seeing a few moments into the future to help them "predict" where the shot is going to hit).
Essentially the force helped luke shoot the photon torpedos (or whatever they were) at the correct moment, the force itself didn't blow up anything.

 

+1

I think we can all list novels and films we didn't like. And this brand has made content that was truly, truly terrible. Anyone who has ever read some of the KOTOR novels know what I am talking about.

But the idea that only a segment of fans own the truth and that all other fans who disagree are "inferior" has always tainted this community. And it goes way back before TLJ. My goodness, if you could hear the conversations about Return of the Jedi from 1983/84. Divisive, passionate and not at all unlike what we read about TLJ today.

Also let's face it, some of the TLJ-haters are more about perpetuating a culture war. This is sometimes parallel GamerGate crowd, immune to reason and keen to launch vociferous ad hominem attacks on anyone who disagrees with their precious opinions.

Not that there isn't legitimate and worthy criticism of the film, there most certainly is, but you get a distinct sense that for some of the critics it's more about self-congratulation and ego.

I've been told I'm not a "true fan" since 1980, when I criticized the over-hype on Boba Fett's character and toy marketing. And when I came out against TPM on TFN back in 1999, found myself attacked and demonized and once again told, "you are not a real fan".

Such nonsense, like as if your worth and value as a fan is how much trivia you know, or how much you conform to some nerd's opinion on the internet.

Are you a Star Wars fan? A real Star Wars fan? Answer this question...

Do you like Star Wars?

If you answer "yes" to that question, congratulations you are in the club. And you have equal status to the rest of us. No intense, detailed knowledge of Darth Revan's origin is necessary.

All opinions here are equal to others and the more they are based on actual facts, rather than bullying others who don't agree with you, the better.

 

He still turned his targeting computer off; which led everyone to freak out. I'd believe that if he didn't turn his computer off. If he used the Force as an enhancement not something to rely on.

 

Wish I could like this 100 times over. I have been told I dont know how many times that I am not a real fan without people knowing anything about me. I have been a fan since 1977 when at 10 years old I went into the Nortown theater in Chicago for the 1st showing and didnt leave until the theater closed. We could do that back then. Yet I have been accused of not being a real fan.

 

true, but the computer was essentially an enhancement too, same way as the force in this case. that is at least my view of the issue. technically speaking if he was simply good enough, he wouldn't have needed the targetting computer or the force

 

Yeah, saber copters are just "what?" Still not sure how these things work.

 

It can't really be defended. What ever the reaction people had when first seeing it, it's clear that if fans could have the choice, they would have had her use the force in any other way imaginable. Leia flying through space is just absolutely absurd; and the movie suffered because of it.