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Leia's Failure

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Daft Ada, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    I do a lot of writing in my spare time and for some years now I have devoted myself to writing about Star Wars. I currently have two projects on the go - one is a piece of fan fiction which, when completed, will be given to my son; the other is devoted to the existing films and my analysis of the story (inspired by the great work of Mary Henderson whose Star Wars: The Magic Of Myth I would recommend to all fans of the films).

    Something which occured to me today, inspired by talking on the forums about The Force Awakens, prompted me to update my project on both the films and my fan fiction and I think it's worthy of bringing it up here.

    It concerns Leia and her decision to put her son in the hands of her brother. It never occurred to me before today that this is something of a faliure on her part as a mother and, rather than bringing about a return to the light, it was instrumental in pushing Ben further into darkness.

    From the exposition between Leia and Han in TFA, we know that both mother and father considered their son to be something of a lost cause. Han himself declares there to be "too much Vader in him" and this view point was, presumably, something they both agreed upon enough to give the boy to Luke in order to put him back on the straight and narrow. This, though, is an act of detachment, of absolving oneself of their duty to their kith and kin.

    Leia clearly thinks she was doing the right thing - in the same way that parents put their children in the hands of the authorities or the church or the military when they feel that the child needs a sense of discipline that they, as parents, have failed to instil in them. She knows that Luke has brought back their own father from the dark side - and who knows how long she wrestled with that before finally accepting that a dark soul can be redeemed? So it is understandable that she would think that Luke would have the same success with Ben.

    But subsequent events have proven that she was wrong to do this.

    I've only seen TFA a handful of times since it was released so, if I've missed something that a more ardent fan has picked up on, then I accept that the shortcoming is mine. I'm just stitching together my thoughts based on the dialogue between Leia and Han (which, I accept is just another example of "point of view" in the saga) with my own personal beliefs as a parent.
     
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  2. singlern05

    singlern05 Rebel Official

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    I think that is an accurate interpretation of what happened per the limited information provided in TFA. As a parent, I think classifying it as a failure is a little harsh. As you said, Leia did what she believed to be the right thing for her son. But we're all human and we make mistakes. While this may have had a negative impact in Ben, ultimately his fall to the dark side is his own failure. We all control our own destiny.
     
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  3. Addi Ras

    Addi Ras MASTER TEA MAKER
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    Interesting post & while I think Leia did make mistakes with Ben Iam not sure sending him to Luke was one of them.

    After all Leia didn't have any other options it wasn't like there were loads of Jedi roaming the galaxy she could choose from & while Han may have given up on his son I never got that impression from Leia & sending her to Luke may have been more then just trying to sort out a bad kid as if he wanted to follow in his uncles footsteps & become a Jedi then Luke would have been there only option. I think Leia keeping info about Anakin from Ben was a greater failed then sending him to Luke.
     
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  4. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    Thank's singlern05. See, as a parent I think it's my responsibility and not that of the state, church or indeed any other body to take on my responsibility of child rearing. And, whatever the age, our children are still our children and I would take any failing of theirs as a failure on my part. A failure to prepare them for life, perhaps; a failure to give them all the tools they need.

    And while I agree totally on taking responsibilty for our own actions and that if I fail in life it would be far too easy me to say, for example, that this was all down to having an alcoholic father or being neglected as a child (both untrue, I hasten to add!) we don't actually know when it was that Ben started to fall towards the dark side and how much his parents could have done to have prevented it. Unlike, say, the path of Anakin whose fall we got to track from the age of nine, we don't know enough of Ben's past to say how much responsibility we can lay at his door. And who knows if we ever will find out those early details from the films.

    I appreciate the contradiction in what I'm saying. As a parent, I feel responsible for everything my child does, good and bad. And as an individual, I feel responsible for my own actions and don't attribute any of my good or bad actions to anything my parents did. But, as a parent yourself, I'm sure you can appreciate the strength of my emotions towards my own children and the feeling of responsibility I have for the consequences of everything they do.

    The flaws that Han and Leia have as parents (I call them "flaws" whereas you shrug them off as common-or-garden "mistakes") only deepen them as characters. The Empire Strikes Back established that our heroes can still have feet of clay so it's nice to see that these new films have continued that tradition.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 11, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 11, 2017 ---
    Cheers :) Initially, I never saw Leia sending Ben to Luke as a mistake; I took it as being the only option she had. I still don't doubt that she had Ben's best interests at heart but the road to hell is paved with good intentions and I think that the consequences of her sending Ben to Luke certainly bear that out. Of course, we don't know how much of the burden Luke has to bear in all of this. Was it his failure as a teacher that compounded the mistake of the parent? We have seen, through Obi-wan's inabilities to be the teacher that Anakin needed, how difficult it is to be a good master to an apprentice. So are we seeing, in the story of this new trilogy, a repeat of that?

    I'm not so qualified as to give definitive answers on this - hence the rhetoric of my posts - but I think it's interesting to consider the situation from - dare I say it - another point of view. We've only really had the dialogue of Han and Leia to go off, which is really only one small part of the story.
     
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  5. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Leia couldn't have known Ben would have turned.
     
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  6. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    Well, she couldn't have known before he was born but certainly before she kicked him out of the house and sent him to live on the other side of town with Uncle Luke, Ben was already something of a handful. She must have had some reason for giving him his marching orders and I'm suspecting it was for more than just refusing to wash the dishes or tidy his room.
     
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  7. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    You & others probably remember this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tatooine_Ghost, when Han & Leia talked about having kids with her concerned with the way Anakin went, she was worried at the time the temptation of the darkside would carry on through her children until she found Shmi's diary on Tatooine who gave her an account that he wasn't the evil monster she knew, she held on to this hope..
     
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  8. Addi Ras

    Addi Ras MASTER TEA MAKER
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    But at the moment we don't know for certain she kicked him out. It may well have been Ben idea to want to train with Luke while Leia & Han were unsure if this was a good idea damm it we need more info hopefully we get at least some of it.

    Personally I thinkLeia not being upfront with Ben about the family history however difficult that conversation would have been played more of a part in Bens turning then simply sending him to Luke when he became a bit difficult around the house.
     
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  9. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    I read a lot. There isn't a day that goes by when I don't make the time to pick up a book. That said, there has never occured a time when I have been so desperate for something to read that I have resorted to the books of the Star Wars Expanded Universe. And, when talking about a canon-related issue, I honestly don't see the relevance of some book of which I haven't even heard, let alone read :)
     
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  10. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Then this is where I get off. :( >>>>>
     
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  11. singlern05

    singlern05 Rebel Official

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    I don't understand the contempt for all Legends material. Sure, not all of them knocked it out of the park but there were some great ones, especially the books written by the same authors who are still writing SW novels today (Luceno, Zahn, etc.).
     
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  12. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    The failure of Ben Solo belongs to him and him alone.
     
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  13. BobaFettNY21

    BobaFettNY21 Force Attuned

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    Ben is a bit more complicated because of his family history.

    Obviously, there's a bit of original sin themes as he is in Vader's lineage, but there's also the pressure to live up to the legacies of Leia Organa, 'General' Han Solo and Jedi Knight and Commander Luke Skywalker. There's also the abandonment issue and the fact that he never knew Vader was his grandfather until a galactic news report was released. So there's jealously, abandonment, and inability/unwillingness to confront the original sin/shadow character that all heroes must fan, lest they (their humanity) be scarred and deformed.

    And that's just all that we can determine at this time with the canon material, and he's only really in one film. Everything else is via Leia's thoughts and exposition in novels. (It's actually kind of cool that they've woven that together, although the films will still determine how strong of a character he will end up being).
     
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  14. A Few Luke Screws

    A Few Luke Screws Rebel General

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    The only issue I have with this idea is the assumption that Ben started down the dark side and then Leia and Han gave up on him and sent him to Luke. It's more likely that they sent him to Luke at a young age for the simple reason that he was a Skywalker and they knew he would end strong with the force. What do you do with force sensitive children? You send them to train with a Jedi.
     
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  15. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Why criticize Leia for Ben's upbringing? Why not Han?
     
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  16. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    So each man is an island, then? Are you completely free of influence? And can you lay claim to such freedom from birth up until now? I'm guessing you're relatively young and, dare I say, somewhat naive (by contrast, I am old and have seen and experienced much...like hair loss and arthritis) so I shall quote Yoda with regards to your somewhat uncluttered stance on this: "Much to learn, you still have."
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 17, 2017 ---
    Because I'm sexist.
    --- Double Post Merged, Apr 17, 2017 ---
    I am over halfway through my life. I am aware that I will not get to hear all the music that I want to hear (of all the arts, music ranks the highest with me; it is my profession and it is my recreation) let alone read all the books I want to read or visit all the countries I wish to see. I am all too aware that time is finite and that I should not waste it (you could, of course, accuse me of wasting my time right now as I type this) so it is not out of contempt that I do not read those Star Wars books; it is out of partiality.
     
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  17. CTrent29

    CTrent29 Rebel Official

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    Well . . . that answers that.
     
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  18. AuroraSkies

    AuroraSkies Clone Trooper

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    Han and Leia both did the wrong thing, though I don't think they can be blamed for that. It was just a mistake on their parts. Perhaps they weren't fully ready to become parents...
     
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  19. Darth Basin The Greatest

    Darth Basin The Greatest Rebel Official

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    Most men like to look at healthy women with minimal clothing. According to society i guess most men r sexist then.
     
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  20. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Agreed, he made a choice.
     
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