"Let the Past Die" Is a Dangerous Motto

So.. Given the very redundant message by Rian Johnson to let the past of all the star wars history we love and know, what was in the present or even the future? Really, what do we have??

Rey is all powerful for what reason?

Ben's jerk face self is the only Skywalker left in a saga about family and genealogy?

Who's the first order? Remnants of the Empire?

Who's the resistance?

What was the New Republic and how much had they accomplished?

What was Snokes drive?

Why was Finn the only rebellious storm trooper? Why weren't there more after the destruction of several planets?

Luke's dead
Han's dead
Carrie fisher is gone

Where are the Knights of Ren?

Do we need to learn a lot of this stuff in books or is this all to be more clear in episode 9 because sadly as of now I don't care.

 

you're right, there are a lot of questions one could ask regarding characters and situations in TFA and TLJ. we have one more movie to help with that, so i guess we'll see what happens!

i honestly don't get the frustration so many seem to have regarding the choices made in TLJ. if i was wanting to relive the OT again i'd just go and re-watch them. i for one am glad that this movie took some risks and gave us something that was unexpected, especially after TFA's homage to the OT.

some questions don't need to be answered. when i was a kid watching the OT i never wondered who the emperor was or how he'd got there; things just were and it was enough. if anything i think over explaining things like that can ruin the effect (looking at you, PT).

 

Red Letter Media claimed that the film was not a mess, but it was messy.

I disagree, it was and IS a mess. There are a lot of minor and major things which should have been done different.. Rian has turned this into something which doesn't feel like Lucas' vision. By the end of the film, it's something else.

Rey hasn't been revealed as being related to any major characters, she's been shown to be overpowered as hell (MORESO THAN YODA) without earning it.

Luke's ending was not satisfying and it broke too many rules in the canon, Snoke should have been explained more.. the plot itself was not clever or deep. It's a mess. This film has broken the new trilogy for many people.. and that isn't how it should be.

Rian Johnson went out of his way to be as unpredictable as possible, to split the fanbase down the middle.. all because he wanted to look clever. He failed.

If you're going to make it unpredictable, then at least RESPECT THE LORE AND AT LEAST MAKE IT SATISFYING.

What the hell man. This plot is ****, the whole thing where every major character coincidentally meets up on a big star destroyer? It's typical Hollywood crap, way worse than anything in The Force Awakens (which I enjoyed)

This film disrespects Lucas, Mark Hamill and even J.J.

Where is the family element to all of this?

J.J. I don't know if it's possible, but patch this up the best you can.

 

I don't want to see a remake either. Though we see a near exact reenactment of the throne room from rotj, but one that gives me zero feeling. Then a way worse training and a way worse hoth battle? The rest is just filler that really made zero sense. Why didn't Haldo explain her plan to poe? Only to create the other story lines that were pointless.
I would have had a completely different story where Leia is captured so she can talk smack to snoke/Hux and have very awkward and emotional moments with Ben. Meanwhile Luke resists to train Rey until Yoda punks him then gives in. Awesome lightsaber/force training with Rey until Finn shows up to tell them that Leia has been captured and taken to Snokes PALACE! Finn and Poe team up to lead the rebellion while Rey and Luke go to save Leia. (already a better script.)

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 21, 2017 ---

Completely agree. Not clever, but lazy and unsatisfying to true fans who live the history, know the history and appreciate the lore.

 

i'm not super interested in doing a blow by blow on various plot points, but Holdo not telling Poe her plan isn't a stretch at all, especially after his actions and recent demotion. she was asserting her authority as a commanding officer. there's not much else to read here. if anything i would have done the same thing: let that ballsy little sh!t stew and wait for his orders.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 21, 2017 ---

i think the "family" aspect was placed on ideas like adopted family instead of lineage. the movie is full of "family" moments, just not Skywalker family moments (other than the final fight between Luke and Kylo).

the beauty of A New Hope was that this random farm boy was thrown into a crazy story and became a legend. they're trying to capture that feeling again so the importance of the Skywalker clan is going to lessen from here on in. i am almost 100% certain that that's the way the franchise is going now.

 

1. Snoke tells us, "Darkness rises and the light to meet it" the explanation to Rey being powerful is simply as Ben Solo grew strong with the dark side of force, the force chose Rey to be his equal, thats the balance.

2. My guess is Ben Solo is the last Skywalker and this is their way of moving past the Skywalker family.

3. Order #1 of Emperor Palpatines contingency orders was if the Emperor were to perish, the remnants of the empire would gather together to preserve the empire. Thus the name "The First Order"

4. The Resistance was a sub faction of The New Republic that was created with the belief that the empire was still a threat after The New Republic demilitarized believing they was peace in the galaxy and a truce with the Empire.

5. Look at 4. I dont know too much more about The New Republic. Weakpoint in TFA.

6. All we know of Snoke is that he wanted a new Vader and he had all his chips on Ben Solo, ultimately unimportant.

7. Finn had an awakening, he broke programming, story reasons.

8. Its implied Knights of Ren are the students of Luke Skywalker that followed Ben Solo when he betrayed Luke.

I didnt read any books haha

 

But he wasn't Random. He was the son of an all powerful Jedi Knight & a former Queen.

 

that's why i reference A New Hope, not the PT.

the OT is great because it's about Luke finding that his destiny is caught up with an evil, estranged father. he was a nobody in ANH and became someone important by turning his father from the dark side.

the PT fleshes out the bizarre origin story of Anakin; even he was a slave boy nobody. sure, there was the immaculate conception, but he was still a no one that was happened upon. without knowing what happens in episode 9 i don't know if we can write off Rey just yet. there might be something in store for us!

 

I think "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" has way deeper meaning that what the OP wrote. Rian Johnson is a die-hard feminist, this is his way of giving the audience a subliminal message about today's modern society. It's not time for the Jedi to end, it's time for the patriarchy to end.

 

Then why is it that Anakin, who was born from the force so take that however you want, still required years of training. But yet this girl stands in a room with someone and gets a leaf rubbed on her hand is just able to do this stuff. For some reason. At least Luke had training, although limited from two Jedi Masters.

If this is how the force works then why wasn't there some force user that just appeared between ROTS and ANH.

Then do this at the end of Episode IX. Put these boring nobodies in your Star Wars Story trilogy.

 

Is it really too much to ask for the "Rey shouldn't be a nobody" crowd to realize that they not only figuratively but literally sound like the villain of this film?
The film gives you in-universe hints to the origin of her power.
But pointing that out is like explaining why democracy works to members of a royal family.

 

Some do consider the base of Star Wars storytelling, the hero's journey as part of the patriarchy since most of civilization's ancient heroes have been told through a male-dominated lens. These stories often instill very traditional concepts of culture, family, and religious values. This film attempts to deconstruct the hero's journey and replace it with today's more relativist concepts of morality.

It's no surprise that killing the past and killing tradition is a central message of this film. The Jedi religion is parallel to our real world Abrahamic and Eastern religions. For some these institutions need to end in order for humans to progress both in our world and that galaxy far far away.

It's also Rian Johnson explicitly stating to fans that Star Wars and it's traditional narratives and lore is limiting. Which is probably why he used this film as a sort of academic exercise to deconstruct Star Wars and turn it on its head.

Having said all that. I'm totally against it. There's a reason as to why so many vehemently disagree not just on a surface level of plot holes, bad cgi, and writing mistakes. They disagree because Rian Johnson and company are trying to change the philosophical foundation of what makes Star Wars. This is why a person like me who has just spent his time in Star Wars boards lurking has been hell-bent to put myself out there and engage in discussion.

These stories matter, these characters matter. Heroes matter. At the time when the first Star Wars came to theaters, there was the cold war and the Vietnam war. Cinema took a very cynical and realist slant. Out of the blue came this timeless hero's tale dressed in sci-fi fantasy. It gave people hope. It gave characters and relationships we hope to strive for and become. If Kathleen Kennedy truly understood the need to preserve a character like Luke she would not have allowed Rian Johnson to use him for this deconstruction exercise.

Not everything needs to be deconstructed and subverted. We don't need to change Lord of the Rings to be a more PG 13 version of Game of Thrones.

Rian Johnson's tweet is interesting:

The goal is never to divide or make people upset, but I do think the conversations that are happening were going to have to happen at some point if sw is going to grow, move forward and stay vital."

While I am not a fan of Rian's interpretation of Star Wars. I do, however, feel it is a movie for better or worse is getting fans to talk about what they truly want to see in a Star Wars. Not just on a surface level but its very foundation. For that I respect him and admire his guts to take such a chance.

 

I hope so. I'm still hoping out 4 Rey Clone. A Skywalker not born of a Skywalker.

 

My point is tell the story then. We don't really need linear, dialogue answers like all the set ups and gotchas in this film, but an actual detailed universe where we can sort of place it all together and it feels like more exists outside of the war. Much more. The politics, the force, the growing powers. The civilizations. So much detail was missing in these last two films. We see desolate planets with not much going on in them, but simply to stage the next battle. Just unimaginative and not star warsy.

Imagine Luke snapping out of it much sooner and goes on a mission with Rey to gain allies(visiting old friends of his) and helping the resistance where he and Rey pair up to kick butt and inevitably run into Kylo(maybe Leia gets captured which sets up some much needed scenes of her sh*t talking with Snoke and upset mother, son moments with Ben. This is already more story then Rian tried to attempt. This movie stank starting with the script.

 

Why bring Earth politics in a movie in a galaxy that Earth isn't even existed?

 

If Lucas Film believes that then why are they making a Han Solo movie? Talking out their ass is all they are doing.

 

"Forget the past and let it die."....words from Kylo Ren.Those words hide "everything" and I believe in Ep.IX we are going to understand better what this words means.What if Kylo want to built something MORE powerful that the Sith.He said it...."Forget the Republic, the resistance,the rebels,the Sith,the Jedi....EVERYTHING...."Join me and we will rule the galaxie"..........Something is coming.Hold yourself in your seat my friends.....