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Let's just talk Return of the Jedi

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Kylo Solo, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. The Last Jorgny

    The Last Jorgny Rebel Official

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    Agreed , it's an amazingly evil theme. The imperial march is a fitting melody for Vader's tall and menacing figure, but the emperors theme sounds perfefct for the old sorcerer type Palpatine is. It can also be heard many times in the prequels (and briefly in The Last Jedi when Snoke is force-torturing Rey). Can't wait to hear it again in TROS.
     
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  2. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    I totally agree with you. I remeber hearing it in TPM when Darth Maul exits his Sith Infiltrator shio on Tattooine. I use to play that theme on my CD player ovet snd over because it was at the time my only access to the ROTJ Dark Choir. :)
     
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  3. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    So, be it.... Sith!
     
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  4. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    I love the variant of Dark Choir when Luje goes Dark and used Djem So to nearly shred his father Darth Vader:



    Particularly at 39-19secs at the end of the video.
     
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  5. Josh

    Josh Rebel Official

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    Even if the movie is still da.m.n great, you can feel Lucas wanted the thing to end, thats my main problem with the movie.
     
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  6. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    I didn’t sense that myself. It has finality to it to be sure, but that’s because it was the end of the trilogy.
     
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  7. Ken Obi

    Ken Obi Clone Trooper

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    I love the rubber aliens and monsters that populate this film! Jabba's so over the top, just in his having even been fabricated ... wow! That took a hell of a lot of plastic! And he's got such an excess of personality ... very entertaining. Even his henchmen are big-ass mountains of plastic ... his guards, his pet rancor, his sarlac pit ... Seriously, where else are you going to see sculptured characters (that aren't dinosaurs) on this scale -- many of whom are just background, nothing more. The level of artisty and imagination is beyond compare -- truly remarkable!
     
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  8. Ken Obi

    Ken Obi Clone Trooper

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    I genuinely appreciate how different this film is from the previous entries. A lot of swashbuckling, there's Muppets everywhere, and a serious Lord of the rings vibe to the second half of it. The only noteworthy flaw, really, is that the director just let the actors delivery play flat. The voice-overs are generally lacking in the passion and irony of the previous two films. Like nobody wants to work that hard, or take the film too seriously.
     
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  9. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    Return of the Jedi was my favorite growing up. The Empire Strikes Back is a better paced film, and has no weak spots, but Return of the Jedi has the Throne Room scene and redemption of Vader:”; and no matter how many Ewoks or Jabba antics happen, it cannot erase how much ROTJ means to me.

    I am going to get personal here. My real father is very much like Anakin Skywalker. In his early adulthood he fought in his own Clone Wars and was renowned hero who saved many lives in jungles. He became a leader of his community who was full of love and kindness; but he had a temper. Experts said it was fear that stoked his anger, and then overtime like Anakin he gave into his rage more and more; until it gave birth to hate. Self hatred even, as he destroyed his lungs with death sticks despite the doctors and their tests warning him to stop. Now he is at the suffering phase, and I do not lie by saying he breathes an inhaler for COPD that sounds just like Darth Vader. Most of the kind man I knew is gone, comsumed by this new enmity that has caused a man they once was said to have the strongest integrity, but now is a schemer like Palpatine. I still love my father, even though we live much of the time apart, when I watch Vader turn from the evil, and save his son I choke up, hoping my father will caste the Emperor into the reactor that has transformed him into a cruel person he deep down isn’t.

    I know there is “still good in him.” I see it surface sometimes, but I have been emotionally Force Choked by him so much that my faith is starting to lack at disturbing levels.

    AF31C427-7D76-4415-AB07-E6F2EEC81A6E.jpeg


    02311137-0168-425C-963F-45B59DA8908A.jpeg
     
    #189 Kato Sai, Nov 23, 2019
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2019
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  10. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    Just rewatched ROTJ and I finally caught Luke’s descent into the Dark Side when he uses the Force and retrieves his lighysaber reqdy to strike down The Emperor and Vader parries it. Master Yoda said “A Jedi uses The Force for knowledge and defense, never attack.” (ESB). When Luke baited by Sheev draws his saber to strike, he has already ceased being a Jedi. Luke did not draw his weapon in defense of himself or another, but out of anger over Palpatine’s words that his friends and fleet were doomed.

    As Obi-Wan said, “bury your feelings deep down Luke, they do you credit, but they could be used to serve the Emperor.” Sheev uses Luke’s feelings to foster his anger. Vader does the same under the throne, when he says, “If you will not turn to the dark side, then perhaps she (Leia) will.” In response, Luke gives into Bogan and nearly kills his father with the Emperor cackling and saying “good, good! Your hate has made you powerful.”

    Luke steps back from this descent and throws his saber down and proclaims, “No. You have failed your highness, I am a Jedi like my father before me.” Luke’s success is he takes back his feelings, of love for his father, and stops his anger. This in a stunning finale leads to Vader’s redemption and his decision to destroy the Emperor and save his son.

    Luke’s ability to step back from the dark after giving in to it shows Vader the Darkness is not omnipotent; that you can step back into the Light after tasting the dark.
     
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  11. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    I wonder why Yoda believed “once you start down the Dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny.” Was it because of Dooku, his old padawan who he saw lost to the darkness? And then Vader being a second prominate example. Had Yoda never seen a Jedi Prodigal?
     
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  12. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel General

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    It's possible that he hadn't. According to Jocasta Nu, only 20 people had ever left the Jedi order. I am assuming that they never came back. Now, we only know that Dooku actually went Sith from those 20, but it's possible that other went dark without becoming Sith. Maybe Yoda had actually never seen anyone able to return from the dark side.
     
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  13. Ken Obi

    Ken Obi Clone Trooper

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    These are some good points, actually. And it is interesting how Jedi chooses to handle its own created dilemma of "why" is it important for us now, when the trilogy's just about over, to find out Leia's his sister? How is that not useless information, at this point? Then, of course, we find out.

    Seems to me, also, that Luke's ability to resist converting entirely to the Dark Side, in those moments with the Emperor taunting him, was because of Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru. They raised Luke with core values that, in old time Hollywood films, trumped all. Yoda and Ben were also extensions of Uncle Owen, being old gentlemen from a bygone era, who could only impart the wholesome values of their generation to him. It is their values that were distorted and perverted by the Emperor and must be returned to. The Aunt Beru's and Uncle Owen's of the world hold the answer, along with anyone basic, who lives simply.
     
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  14. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    In Canon and Legends I have found no signs of Yoda encountering a Jedi Prodigal. Everyone either went Sith, and died as a Dark Side acolyte, or like Ahsoka never joined the Sith. Interesting from a Legends point of view that Yoda never heard of Revan, Sith Lord turned Jedi Prodigal.

    Intriguing. Aunt Beru and Uncle Owen often get ignored. But you are right. They raised Luke from a Babe to Young Adulthood. Luke’s loyalty to the Light and the Alliance in the face of doom, though has something else to it. I am convinced Luke and Anakin are less alike than often believed. True, they have impatience, they whine, and care too much for those they love; but Luke is not possessive like Anakin; he is willing in a crucial moment to take his feelings and use them not to turn to the darkness, but to stoke his resolve to stay a Jedi. He is able unlike Anakin to step back and see that should he turn to the daek side, he would destroy his friends for sure, and become a new Vader.

    Anakin blinded by his unhealthy obession cannot see the dark side does not let you have loved ones; it is a cruel mistress that will kill all you love so that you are its slave. Luke sees this through the murders of Beru and Owen, his own poignant example in his father, and finally he sees how manipulative Palpatine is; threatening to destroy his friends, which proves the dark side is a cruel mistress.
     
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  15. Ken Obi

    Ken Obi Clone Trooper

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    Alright ... I see we're gonna get all analytical, here? Haha!

    "Good ...

    ... G00D!!"

    Anakin even admits in the films that "... I'm not the Jedi I should be," when he was good. Lucas gives him a lot of excuses for it, like having had a "rough" life before Qui-Gon got a hold of him. And this continues to be, apparently, the filter through which he views the world. Kind of like when Tarzan gets rescued in his franchise. He understands that humans take a shower and go to a job and pay bills, but the monkeyman he is, inside, says man was meant to swing from vines in the raw. And that's Anakin's problem. He's saving the galaxy and rubbing elbows with the elite, which he likes ... but he still views things from the perspective of someone who's had it rough.

    Luke's problem was that the pragmatic lifestyle of the farm doesn't easily accommodate dreams, in particular, dreaming big. The rebelliousness he inherited from his father is mainly there to encourage Luke to break free of conventionality. And we see that at the end of New Hope, Leia's still wearing her pristine, white robes, with her hair all done up. Han's got the same outfit. Chewy's got the same purse. But ... who's the different one? Who's changed from how they were for most of the movie? Luke. Obviously. His independence is all that he wants. He's not rejecting his upbringing, or out to hurt anyone.

    And when he vanquishes Vader in the throne room, of course, he sees his Vader hand and that's not what independence is about, taking on someone else's burden, even if they are family. Jedi relieve people's burden, their suffering ... in part, because they're independent of it. And that's what Vader misinterpreted. He viewed the Jedi way as being a path to power. Power is what Vader believes protects and preserves life as he knows it. The things he cares about. And he'd be right, except that he's looking at it from the wrong end of the telescope, because of the Dark Side. Because of Palpatine.
     
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  16. Kato Sai

    Kato Sai Jedi Commander

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    This is brillant! No seriously, the idea that Jedi relieve burdens, like counselors (Jedi Consular). I see parallels into Kylo Ren who took up the burden of Vader, “finishing whatcyou started.” This is indeed the prisioj of the dark side, trying to live up to a legacy of Sith Lords, when the Jedi’s objective is to serve and as you said “relieve burdens.”

    I am going to quote you in my status. This is so rich I want to share it. :)
     
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  17. Obi5Kenobi

    Obi5Kenobi Rebel General

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    This gave me more than a few laughs. Thought I should share.

    High_Ground.JPG
     
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  18. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    [​IMG]
     
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  19. OrigamiYoda1980

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    [​IMG] One touch i like is when vader is saving luke the lightning shows his skeleton. I liked that moment.
     
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  20. Martoto

    Martoto Rebel Official

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    My all time favourite moment.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
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