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Let's just talk Return of the Jedi

Discussion in 'Original Trilogy' started by Kylo Solo, Jan 15, 2017.

  1. eeprom

    eeprom Force Sensitive

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    I really like how Claudia Gray was able to use this in ‘Bloodline’ though. How her view of her ‘father’ is diametrically opposite to Luke’s. Spin it however you like, he’s still the guy that tortured her and helped destroy her planet. Bail is the only dad she’d ever known, and he’s only dead due to the actions of people like Vader. Hard to say if seeing a deathbed conversion would sate the venom she has for him. Makes her a much more layered character IMO.
     
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  2. PrincessLeiaCB3

    PrincessLeiaCB3 The Princess that was Promised
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    Exactly! Being told about something for her wasn't exactly as having experienced it by herself.

    But at the same time, it provided a perfect storyline to explore for the sequels: her trouble acknowledging her inheritance, which in some way caused a lot of issues for her and her family, including her own son. Had she come out clean with him, especially, perhaps would have prevented all that Kylo Ren nonsense lol.
     
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  3. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    RoTJ is certainly my favourite of the first three films and it may well be my favourite of the six part saga. Everything about it works so well. Jabba's palace is a bigger, bolder cantina sequence; Luke's scene with Yoda is immensely touching and then there's the confrontation with Obi-wan "You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father!"; the Emperor is evil personified and played with devillish glee by the fantastic Ian McDiarmid; the Ewoks are just great; the space battle between the Rebels and the Empire is a thrill-a-minute. And then there's the showdown to end all showdowns between Vader, the Emperor and Luke. And who can beat the ending, with the ghosts of Anakin, Obi-wan and Yoda looking on as the Rebels celebrate their victory?

    On a good day, I can watch this and get wet-eyed with emotion.
     
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  4. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    It was a great movie, alot of great scenes to remember for a long time.
     
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  5. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I wish my blu ray of it would still work :(
     
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  6. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    That's not good. Star Wars on Blu-ray was the reason we bought a player. My wife saw the trailer for the films and said "We've got to have them." That's why I love her!
     
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  7. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I have a blu ray player and a Vader edition PS4 that doesn't work because the control stopped wielding suddenly
     
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  8. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    That's why I sold mine & went back to the standard dvd
     
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  9. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    it's ironic because the whole point of blurays besides higher definition is that they are way more resilient when compared to dvds .
     
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  10. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Maybe I need a new player, the previous one kept freezing.
     
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  11. deadmanwalkin009

    deadmanwalkin009 Rebel Official

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    Sometimes, scratches on the disc can cause it to freeze.
     
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  12. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    For all of the fun of the thrilling Battle of Endor and the Sarlaac Pit melee, ROTJ suffers from major storytelling problems and structure. We spend 1/3 of the movie with Jabba, when the real MacGuffin of the piece has nothing to do with Jabba. You could literally take Han out of the equation and I'd bet the Rebellion still wins.

    To me the Jabba scenes weigh down the movie unnecessarily. We make saving Han some HUGE event, but the magnitude of the rest of the film outweighs it. I have many more issues with ROTJ that have nothing to do with Ewoks:

    Complete underuse of Han
    Complete underuse of Leia
    The Ben/Luke scene feels rushed and way too informal for what is to come
    The Battle of Endor itself is split into three areas of focus, which is never a good thing as they have important aspects sacrificed.

    Star Wars was Luke's journey within the larger scope of a galactic conflict. Our focus is singular.
    Empire extended that character building to include Leia and Han. Our focus becomes dual (Bespin/Dagobah), but returns to a singular focus at the end when Luke gets to Bespin.
    ROTJ never gives us character building for Leia or Han, and only gives us a bit of Luke's when he gets to Dagobah. Our focus becomes split three ways but our heroes never return back together during the conflict - its only after during the victory celebration. This makes ROTJ ring a bit hollow. If you put Han in the Falcon fighting the space battle, with Leia on the ground and Luke infiltrating the Death Star and make it all part of the PLAN then you've got better story structure. Because then you have the group starting with a plan (Jabba) and ending with a plan (Endor).

    That being said. ROTJ is fun and exciting. But it doesn't hold the emotional resonance of ANH or Empire or even TFA.
     
    #52 BespinMinersUnion1138, Mar 7, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2017
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  13. Grand Master Galen Marek

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    Yeah I noticed.
     
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  14. Obi1Kenobi

    Obi1Kenobi Clone

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    ROTJ is not my favorite OT movie nor SW movie, but is still one of the best SW movies...and I personally don't mind the ewoks at all.
    As some have remarked it does have its flaws, but it is overall a pretty great movie which I've probably seen far too many times...:)

    It is indeed a pity Spielberg didn't get to direct it. It's also a pity there were budget limitations.
    I agree, ROTJ has it's great moments and at the same time if one nitpicks there are indeed some flaws.
    What I particularly dislike though are some special edition moments that look like fake and inorganic add ons/inserts which is exactly what they are which bug me each time. I like how the Emperor's face was changed, and some here and there minimal touch ups, but stuff like the CGI song at Jabba's palace are things I wish were never added...

    But otherwise. I like almost everything about the original movie. The scene between Vader, Luke and the Emperor is epic and so crucial.

    As to the "underuse of Han". I have read that Harrison Ford insisted that his character dies in a meaningful way. He also probably thought that after being rescued from Jabba's palace he didn't have much to do in the movie...and was just "an expensive sexy luggage"...
    Now in retrospect, it's great that Han survived ROTJ, and Lucas absolutely refused Ford's wish to kill him off, otherwise they would have had quite a big difficulty coming up with a story for the ST...Now in TFA, Ford got what he wanted, which is not merely to kill off Han Solo, but to have him have a meaningful end that adds true gravitas to the story, which although it may not be very obvious at present, at least to me will prove to be the case in retrospect...Or something of the sort. (I'm not sure I express this clearly).
     
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  15. BespinMinersUnion1138

    BespinMinersUnion1138 Force Sensitive

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    Based on what I read in the "Making of..." Ford was originally going to die early in one of the drafts and Lucas nixed it. I also read that his part was underwritten mainly because they weren't sure if they were going to get him to commit to another movie since he had a two picture contract.
    --- Double Post Merged, Mar 10, 2017, Original Post Date: Mar 10, 2017 ---
    David Lynch was offered the directing job in 1981 and turned it down.
     
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  16. Obi1Kenobi

    Obi1Kenobi Clone

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    There was indeed something about Spielberg being considered to do it, but there was some kind of problem (I'm fuzzy on the exact details) involving the fact that Lucas had to drop out of the Director's Guild and thus Spielberg could not be hired because of that somehow...I remember watching about it in a SW documentary, but cannot remember which one it was right now...
     
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  17. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    and first of all he was the genitor who abandoned her! (I don't know what Luke told her about the past.)

    Their characters, people, villages, are great. But I have a big problem with them... sorry, two big problems:
    1. 1985 artefact :( I suffer sooooo much everytime I see Wicket, sitting next to Leia whom he has just met, Leia gave him a little biscuit, and he leads the biscuit to his mouth and.... his lips are sooooo frozen, motionless and blocked! He seems a little boy with a Carnaval plastic mask.
    I regret sooooo much that the "special edition" did not fix that kind of problem - instead of surcharging Shaw by Christensen by the end. :eek:
    2. Inconsistent battle. As Luke is introduced in the Throne room, we all learn at the same time as him that all was machination by Sidious: the "stolen" plans, the "secret" of his presence aboard the DS2... all of this was a trap to attract then eliminate the Rebellion. Everything has been calculated, premeditated, prepared in advance by the Sith Master. He even tells Luke that "entire legions of my best troops awaits them"... we all know "them" are: one smuggler, one woman, two inefficient droids and one Wookie. And 50 guest teddy bears who fight with stones, and wood arches and arrows. And what? they overpower entire legions of armored stromtroopers, each equipped with a blaster? Sorry, I can accept a lot of things (even R2 flying in ep 2 as we never see that again), but this victory simply doesn't work at all. :confused:
     
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  18. Daft Ada

    Daft Ada Rebelscum

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    It's funny how, even though I have seen the film countless times, the issue of Wicket and the biscuit has never registered with me. Of course, now you've pointed this out I'll notice it every time!

    Same with the Ewok battle really. They spend the first half of the fight getting their furry bottoms kicked. It's only later that they mobilise themselves and the tide turns in their favour. And it's not really difficult to accept their success against those troops. Remember, these are the same goons who, in the opening sequence of A New Hope, manage to miss blowing up two droids in the corridor ahead of them with every blaster shot. The Emperor might consider them his best troops, but really the stormtroopers of episodes four-to-six are never anything more than completely hopeless.
     
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  19. Grand Master Galen Marek

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  20. daRinze

    daRinze Rebel Official

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    I mean this scene from 1:34 to 1:37 :
     
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