1. Due to the increased amount of spam bots on the forum, we are strengthening our defenses. You may experience a CAPTCHA challenge from time to time.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Notification emails are working properly again. Please check your email spam folder and if you see any emails from the Cantina there, make sure to mark them as "Not Spam". This will help a lot to whitelist the emails and to stop them going to spam.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. IMPORTANT! To be able to create new threads and rate posts, you need to have at least 30 posts in The Cantina.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Before posting a new thread, check the list with similar threads that will appear when you start typing the thread's title.
    Dismiss Notice

SPECULATION Lets talk about The Hate (no spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Grand Admiral Kraum, Dec 21, 2015.

  1. MasterCrash

    MasterCrash Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2014
    Posts:
    161
    Likes Received:
    319
    Trophy Points:
    1,587
    Credits:
    1,051
    Ratings:
    +518 / 9 / -2
    I really don't understand the hate from anyone, or why it should sway people's opinions of the film. But aside from that, if it matters to you, the movie was critically acclaimed. A lot of people are saying they liked it better than ESB. The ones who do have a pessimistic response were never to be pleased anyway because they went into the movie with unrealistic expectations and an overthinking mind and a critical approach to find every little detail that wasn't what they hoped it would be. But it's funny, because a lot of these same people that were concentrating enough to point out these nitpicky details the first time were the same people who said they had to see it a second time because the first time they were too excited to focus on the movie. Ironic.

    I was one of those that was absolutely amped for this movie. I joined this forum over a year ago a good part because of that excitement. I read some of the the leaked storylines and felt very mixed about them, but I was very optimistic that they weren't true. But, a good bit of them were. And it really had me thinking, if (SPOILER) Luke really did show up earlier on in the film, past all the hype of his first appearance, where would the story really go? What would really amp up the anticipation level for episode VIII? And it was those sorts of questions that got me to except and enjoy what we got even more. I also watched the rest of the saga before TFA, and it really gave me a good example of what to expect. Some people say certain characters (General Hux, Phasma, Snoke), we're all underused. But in reality, think back to the OT. Think of all the underused characters. Obi-wan, Tarkin, the Emperor in ESB. We had a very vague idea of a lot of characters and elements in these films. Imagine going into ANH on the day of release with no concept of what Star Wars is, or any other pieces to the puzzle. It must have been a confusing film. So many people said it would flop, had a horrible script, etc., but once the film released, people loved it. And they loved it so much, we got sequels. And those sequels really added to the story and connected a lot of dots and Star Wars quickly became the massive empire we know today. And the same will happen with this new trilogy. TFA is only our introduction to these new stories. No Star Wars movie has ever been made as a standalone film. They have always been made in trilogies.

    And at the end of the day, all nostalgia aside, TFA is a really similar story to what we know, but as the first Star Wars film to release after the prequels, it has to wash the foul stench out of our noses. And it does so by giving us more of what we loved and, quite frankly, asked for, in order to assure us the direction Disney is taking with this franchise, and, most importantly, that they are listening to us fans. And they did so in an absolutely, (and arguably the best), way we have yet to see. Some people will always hate, but most of those people were hating even before they knew anything about this movie. They came up with their mental conclusions and stuck with them until they made themselves miserable. Let them be miserable, but they can be miserable as I enjoy possibly the greatest SW movie of all time.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Wise Wise x 1
  2. DamionGraff

    DamionGraff Rebel General

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2015
    Posts:
    454
    Likes Received:
    657
    Trophy Points:
    3,842
    Credits:
    1,556
    Ratings:
    +1,159 / 112 / -44
    "A lot of people are saying they liked it better than ESB."

    Not unreasonable at all.
    I'm giving it time. At this point, I know it's better than ROTJ. Where it ultimately ranks will depend on how we feel about it in, say, 2017 when Ep 8 is coming out.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Count dooku

    Count dooku Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Posts:
    592
    Likes Received:
    663
    Trophy Points:
    3,892
    Credits:
    907
    Ratings:
    +1,162 / 436 / -475
    How is it better that ROTJ what scene in this movie tops the awesome space battle and lightsaber dual in ROTJ.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  4. Blue Three

    Blue Three Clone

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2015
    Posts:
    27
    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    17
    Credits:
    510
    Ratings:
    +95 / 1 / -1
    Uhh, yeah. How about let's not.
     
    • Wise Wise x 2
  5. Rebo

    Rebo Nearsighted Whill Guardian
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2014
    Posts:
    2,500
    Likes Received:
    4,603
    Trophy Points:
    14,747
    Credits:
    6,145
    Ratings:
    +7,330 / 99 / -40
    I'm not sure that's a fair way to look at it.

    I'm struggling myself with whether I rank it above RotJ or not.

    Jedi form the time Luke turns himself into Vader on is fantastic. But everything before that, isn't that great.

    For me, nothing in TFA matches the Emperor's throne room or accompanying battles (nor is it a fair comparison since one is the start of a trilogy and the other is the climax) but TFA is more consistently good throughout.

    As of now, after 2 viewings of TFA, they are about equal in my mind. But that may shift upon further rewatches. I could definitely see TFA moving into 3rd on my list.
     
  6. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Posts:
    2,454
    Likes Received:
    4,576
    Trophy Points:
    14,367
    Credits:
    8,760
    Ratings:
    +7,962 / 709 / -484
    Star Wars isn't all about action, also the lightsaber duels in the prequels made no sense. They basically retconned the fighting style of the originals and harmed the way people would percieve them..

    The prequel duels were some of George Lucas' most disgraceful crimes against Star Wars. Even Mark Hamill has voiced criticism against them.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Count dooku

    Count dooku Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Posts:
    592
    Likes Received:
    663
    Trophy Points:
    3,892
    Credits:
    907
    Ratings:
    +1,162 / 436 / -475
    The lightsaber dual in ROTJ is great because of the story and characters. not really the dual itself.
     
    #27 Count dooku, Dec 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
    • Like Like x 1
  8. Leahcim Somar

    Leahcim Somar Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Dec 20, 2015
    Posts:
    489
    Likes Received:
    1,368
    Trophy Points:
    6,017
    Credits:
    2,690
    Ratings:
    +1,607 / 27 / -7
    @Kreetle Kris @Lt. Hija

    When you say meanstream I agree with you both in the sense that now with a SW movie coming out after each episode its gone mainstream to get a SW every year. which I'm not feeling good about Rogue One and the anthology. Its getting away from the actual SW saga. Yes, George didnt know SW would pan out the way it did. so going mainstream with the OT and had to wait like 20 something years for the PT made it thrilling. and now waiting 30 for the ST(really like 10-15 years for TFA) to continue from RotJ made it so mainstream cause Mr. Lucas wasnt apart of his creation back in 1977. Its a good damn saga to have alot of followers.

    May the force be with you always...
     
  9. starwarsstar

    starwarsstar Rebel Commander

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2015
    Posts:
    65
    Likes Received:
    43
    Trophy Points:
    2,612
    Credits:
    490
    Ratings:
    +93 / 7 / -0
    I've only seen it once so far. I liked certain aspects, and thought other aspects would've been better if they were different.

    I think that maybe once the entire sequel trilogy is released, and I can watch all of the movies and series together, that Episode VII will play out better for me. But as a standalone movie, I felt it could have been better.
     
  10. DarthTazzMission

    DarthTazzMission Clone Trooper

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    Posts:
    80
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Credits:
    677
    Ratings:
    +149 / 3 / -28
    i just saw this today and i loved it. for those bitching about its to similar to anh are either high as a kite or didnt see the film i saw. i agree wile esb still ranks numero uno as the best film i say tfa is second best . what i really liked was this film felt more of its own expanded universe film and for kids of todays generation its a nice jumping on point if they never saw the originals.

    rey and fin are simply perfect together and i have to say i love strong women in film and tv as well as real life and major props to ridley for carrying the film on her shoulders because it cant be easy for anybody

    i really hope we get more fin in episode 8 and i suspect he and rey will be a new love interest wich i think will be fantastic
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. MarsPhoenix

    MarsPhoenix Sith Psychiatrist

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2014
    Posts:
    2,718
    Likes Received:
    3,993
    Trophy Points:
    15,547
    Credits:
    6,871
    Ratings:
    +8,275 / 90 / -75
    In my opinion, a movie is not great because of one scene or two.
    And the reason why it tops ROTJ for me is how invested I am in the characters.
    In ROTJ, there is Luke, Vader and the Emperor. Han, Lando and Leia are pushed aside a lot. Some scenes make no sense at all or lack depth (The scenes on Dagobah I feel rushed and slow at the same time). Half the movie is spent in Jabba's Palace and some of the scenes are not "efficient" and useless (The EV9-D9 dispatch scene for instance). The humor is not as good as TFA. The ending is a little schizophrenic... I love the part with Luke and the Force Ghosts...but it is somehow ruined by the over the top Ewoks party.... and it's a second Death Star, weaker than the original. But yet, you have great scenes and characters... IMO, Ian MacDiarmid is the MVP of this movie.

    In TFA, there is absolutely NO scene I find boring, or long... just maybe too rushed. The only scene I found a little ridiculous, even after 3 screenings, is the scene with Phasma easily convinced to shut down the shield. And the characters are superb!...And we got, again IMO, a lot more from Han and Leia characters...less action from Leia but scenes reminiscent of Empire. In ROTJ, on screen it looks like Harrison & Carrie are just fooling around...in TFA, they are really invested in their roles.

    But again, 2 different movies... one was trying to close a trilogy...the other, beginning a new one.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
  12. DarthTazzMission

    DarthTazzMission Clone Trooper

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    Posts:
    80
    Likes Received:
    89
    Trophy Points:
    92
    Credits:
    677
    Ratings:
    +149 / 3 / -28
    i enjoyed the forest saber fight more than i thought i would

    i hope we get more fights like that in outdoor settings
     
  13. Cmdr. Ed Straker

    Cmdr. Ed Straker Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2015
    Posts:
    1,750
    Likes Received:
    2,707
    Trophy Points:
    8,012
    Credits:
    4,899
    Ratings:
    +3,827 / 138 / -73
    A hard blow.
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  14. Grand Admiral Kraum

    Grand Admiral Kraum Force Sensitive

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Posts:
    2,454
    Likes Received:
    4,576
    Trophy Points:
    14,367
    Credits:
    8,760
    Ratings:
    +7,962 / 709 / -484
    People can say what they like..

    ..but when they start claiming that its made for stupid people? And that only stupid people like it? Thats just bigoted garbage.

    A hard blow is something these people will never get :D
     
    #34 Grand Admiral Kraum, Dec 22, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2015
    • Like Like x 2
    • Funny Funny x 1
  15. Fiddlestyx

    Fiddlestyx Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Posts:
    50
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    857
    Credits:
    693
    Ratings:
    +145 / 6 / -3
    If TFA had been directed by George Lucas (but remains exactly as it is), everyone would be bashing it. It's like Mr. JJ can do no wrong.
    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, we are no more hating than others are blindly following in our opinions.
    The "hate" you speak of is strong on both sides.

    It's like everyone forgot that hate leads to the dark side.
     
    • Great Post Great Post x 1
    • Trolling Trolling x 1
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
  16. DarthOfInformation

    DarthOfInformation Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Posts:
    330
    Likes Received:
    691
    Trophy Points:
    4,642
    Credits:
    1,375
    Ratings:
    +1,273 / 26 / -15
    [​IMG]

    What an absurd premise.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  17. Amanaman

    Amanaman Rebel Official

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Posts:
    1,337
    Likes Received:
    2,387
    Trophy Points:
    9,917
    Credits:
    5,686
    Ratings:
    +3,760 / 238 / -86
    I greatly disliked the movie for many reasons yet I won't go into all of that again cause I am already tired of posting that in other forums. I do have to say however that all of you guys that loved TFA should use this experience to reconsider how many of you have acted along the way. How many of you have respected the PT fans? How many of you can't write something related to the PT without letting others know how bad you think the movies were? Ever single time it is hate after hate after hate regarding the prequels and all of the fans who love them have had to put up with it for all this time. Nobody cared if they ruined the experience for Pt fans, nobody cares how they feel and nobody cares that those movies were loved by many of us that grew up with the OT as well. Look around the cantina people and you will see all the horrible things and all the hate that many have generated for both Lucas and the PT. Now, TFA came out and lots of people have disliked it and you guys don't know where the hate comes from? Can't I ask the same about many of you? If I ask you guys what you hate about the prequels, I can bet that you would all write down tons of things explaing this and that and giving your reasons why you consider the movies bad. I can respect that but I have to ask, don't other people have the right to do the very same things you do? Don't others say matter? Why is it now that after years of hearing about how awful Hayden Christensen did the acting roll of Anakin, when somebody says that Carrie Fisher's acting on this movie was really bad, people want to eat alive whoever said that? You know how many times I have had to put up with hearing complains about the bad CGI work in the prequels? Yet now God forbbid that you say that Ackbar and Niem Numb looked really crappy or that JJs camera work was awful. The hate has been comming from many of you guys from the very beginning yet now when said hate is directed towards you, many can't cope and find no reason of why people hate the movie. They hate it for the very same reasons that many of you hate the PT. They have their own opinions for the very same reason that you guys have your own and they disliked TFA for many different reasons just like you guys disliked the PT for many different reasons. We have to respect each other and value their opinions even if we don't agree so all I ask is that those that loved TFA but hated the PT do exactly the same for those who loved the PT but hated TFA.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Great Post x 1
    • Clouded x 1
    • Disagree x 1
    • Dislike x 1
  18. DarthOfInformation

    DarthOfInformation Rebel General

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2015
    Posts:
    330
    Likes Received:
    691
    Trophy Points:
    4,642
    Credits:
    1,375
    Ratings:
    +1,273 / 26 / -15
    [​IMG]
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
  19. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2015
    Posts:
    7,119
    Likes Received:
    10,295
    Trophy Points:
    144,192
    Credits:
    15,738
    Ratings:
    +19,243 / 799 / -292
    There's so much I could say in this thread but I am going to try and be brief.
    Star Wars, to me, has always been above everything else because of 2 things:

    1. It has always pushed the bar. It has always been new. Revolutionary. And as a result - exciting.
    2. The mythology. The story. Yeah, lightsabers and spaceships are cool - but it is the mythology that keeps me interested.

    It is on these two key points that TFA when t*ts up.
    Even the critics who loved the film admit that it is a remake of A New Hope. Now ignoring just how incredible it is that after a $4 Billion investment, Disney would just make the same film, this complete repetition (not mere rhyming) means that to seasoned Star Wars fans (not kids who love everything with loud bangs) we're not experiencing anything new. I think this is why I partly enjoyed the beginning and the Rathar's sequence - it felt pretty fresh in style. Up to that point I could ignore the ANH rip offs. But then it just continued in the same vein.

    When I watch a Star Wars film, even a bad one, I expect something new. I expect to be thrilled and surprised. I was neither during the majority of this film. It had all happened before. It looked the same. The plots was nigh on identical. But hey, it was still Star Wars and the scenes were as good as most other blockbusters that come out, so I wouldn't say I hated it at all. I liked it. BUT I expected to love it.

    Now this moves me onto the second point. Because it was essentially the same story and with the original characters seeming to regress from the development they made in the OT, the mythology also came to a stop. Kylo's character aside, the story again just felt like a faster and less intense ANH. There appeared to be little thought put into the mythology and instead JJ just seemed to throw as many OT references and action scenes at us at possible to hide that fact.

    It's all subjective and I am undoubtedly in the minority here but when I feel indifferent at Solo's death, experience little thrill at the destruction of the villains super weapon and am disbelieving (in a bad way) in what I am seeing in the climactic saber battle then to me, something very wrong has happened. I went in believing this film would be on par with Empire. I really did.
    I now hope that with Rian Johnson he is able to take it in a new direction, bring a different style...and do something about CGI Snoke!
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Great Post Great Post x 2
  20. Fiddlestyx

    Fiddlestyx Rebelscum

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2014
    Posts:
    50
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    857
    Credits:
    693
    Ratings:
    +145 / 6 / -3
    Sorry, I don't know how to make that any more clear.
     
Loading...

Share This Page