Luke Confronts Vader: Romantic or Pragmatic

Good point. At some point, he decided to turn himself in. Of course he probablly wanted to see Vader alone, without the Emperor around. I think Luke was avoiding the Emperor more than Vader. Yoda and Ben warned him that the Emporor is a badass. If Luke would have just flown up to the Death Star and turned himself in, he would have been brought before the Emperor, not Vader...maybe. But now I'm thinking you're right. It would've been easier for Luke if the Sheild Generator mission went off without a hitch and they managed to destroy the Death Star without running into Vader.

But I think Luke knew as soon as he felt Vader's presense on the Star Destroyer that he was going to have to face him. Last time he was that close to Vader, they basically had a Force conversation (end of ESB). So I think he knew Vader could sense him too. "I'm endangering the mission. I shouldn't have come."

Sorry my reply is so disjointed. Cool topic!

 

I think this is one of the greatest things about the OT.
Luke has a personal challenge, an obstacle he must overcome, and that goal is not set by Yoda - it is set by himself.
It's that simple, and it's something the audience can relate to. As soon as it becomes about how good you are with a lightsaber, and how far you can jump, how many rocks you can lift etc, it actually becomes something quite meaningless.
So, yeah, lifting Luke's X-Wing out of the swamp, for example, was a goal - but the lesson was all about having the right mindset to begin with.

It actually breaks my heart to see Star Wars fans discussing stuff like the cave on Dagobah and trying to break it down into something literal - "Well, in episode 14 of series two of The Clone Wars it says there is a Sith Shrine on Dagobah, and blah blah blah..."
I just don't get all that stuff. It just is what it is in the movie. A test for Luke. It's not about anything tangible or real - it's about what's going on inside Luke's head.

I'd imagine there was probably a point, when I was watching Jedi for the first time as a child, where I might have figured maybe ANYONE who could defeat Vader was good enough to be a Jedi. And everyone had failed so far, and now it was Luke's turn.
But I probably figured out that was a bit silly pretty quickly...

I think the scene where he visits Yoda is key, and where he begins to make a choice.
The way I read it, he is pretty much ready to throw in the towel - if there is a chance Vader might be his father, then he might not be able to kill him... which is ultimately what has to happen.
I think the use of the word "confrontation" is important too - he's never told what he has to do, he just has to accept the situation and face up to it.

I get what you mean about him choosing to go to Endor, rather than try and find Vader and/or head to the Death Star - but I suppose you have to accept that, from a writing point of view, that kind of happens so that he does end up in the Throne Room, as well has having time to get the exposition with Leia out of the way.

Getting back to what I said earlier, it is possible he is "running" in a sense - but I think the realisation he reaches is that it is not about the distance between himself and Vader, it is about what is going on inside his own head. The issue he has to face up to is with him wherever he goes.
When he realises Vader is around, he has no choice but to confront him.

The conclusion I eventually came to, and the way I still look at this now, is that Yoda and Obi simply do not believe Vader has good in him, and that he can be turned. Anakin is dead to them. They say as much. That is why they cannot help Luke. How can they help him do something they themselves do not believe in?

Are they trying to steer Luke away from thinking that way then?
I'm not so sure they are. I think they are simply telling it how it is - this is what WE believe. Your problem is working out what YOU believe.
I think Luke's indecision comes from presuming he has to do what he thinks Yoda and Obi want him to do. There is a conflict of interests there, and that inner conflict is what Luke has to let go of, on all levels. It kind of goes right back to the very first bit of guidance Obi gives Luke - "You must do what you feel is right, of course..."

Basically, I don't think Luke has a plan. He just throws himself into the situation, and hopes he can figure it out. When he finally comes face to face with Vader, I think is the moment he is committed to going with his instinct, which is that he feels there is good in Vader, and that he can "save" him.
Symbolically, for me, Luke walking up to the Empire and turning himself in in Jedi is him "doing it right" - it's like him walking into the cave on Dagobah, but this time surrendering his weapons, and with a clear mind.
From that point, Luke has, essentially, "let go". The drama is that, as he points out himself, he has the potential to put his friends in jeapordy, and his bond with his friends, and his sister, is what might be used against him now...

I suppose my answer is, it's a bit of both...

 

My opinion is that Luke never wanted to confront his father.Remember, he says " I can't kill my own father." Luke didn't have time to figure out his next move.He had to get back to the Rebellion.

He clearly wanted to be on the mission with Han and Leia. Vader being on the Star Destroyer and feeling Luke and visa versa was unexpected.

Luke made the decision to turn himself in only after realizing that the confrontation was inevitable and he put the mission at risk.He had hoped that Vader wouldn't turn him in,believing he could convince Vader to leave with him.And,for a moment,I believe he almost did.

 

If you look at everything that happens to Luke in the OT, he is essentially forced to confront each new challenge because of outside circumstances. He doesn't want to go with Obiwan in ANH because he has to help Uncle Owen, but once his foster parents are dead he then decides to go with Obiwan to Alderran. He doesn't want to face Vader in ESB, but he has visions of his friends dying on Dagobah, so decides to go try to save them on Cloud City. He doesn't want to confront Vader in ROTJ, but once he is outed by Vader feeling his presence, he decides to turn himself in and hope to turn him back to the good side.

I think it actually makes Luke a better character because he is essentially not ready for every situation he is put in and either succeeds or survives it only to make him stronger in the end. That is the difference between Anakin & Luke is Luke never really sought the glory, where Anakin wanted more and more. Anakin couldn't handle it despite wanting more and more power where Luke could control his emotions despite never wanting more then someone else.

It will be interesting to see how the new Skywalker/Solo offspring Protagonist reacts to situations like this in the ST? Will they be more like Anakin or Luke?

 

I would love it if they make the new characters reach a more balanced outcome: Having a passion to know more of the Force, while still being selfless and caring to others. In other words, being passive and aggressive at the right time rather than to rely on only one thing over the other.

 

I agree with your take 100%- Luke is the true hero of the entire saga for me because of his selflessness. On top of that, he won without killing, which even Kenobi and Yoda didn't foresee. My single favorite moment in any of these films is when Luke throws down his lightsaber and declares "I'll never turn to the dark side. You've failed, Your Highness. I am a Jedi, like my father before me." There is so much power in that declaration and it serves as an example to his father. Fighting and killing your opponents is an empty victory. Wisdom in the Force is the greatest power. Luke redeems Vader and he also redeems Yoda, who taught these ideas to Luke (after having realized himself that wars do not make one great). I can't get enough of that scene.

 

I think Luke wanted to set his own destiny but first he had to restore his family name by redeeming his dark lord dad to his chosen one status before carrying the jedi legacy forward.

 

All of these posts on here are great. They remind me of why I think the story of the OT is so damn amazing. Thank you.

 

I just watched ROTJ again last night, and it shocked me a bit when Luke says, "I can't kill my own father," and Yoda says, "You must." That is just so unlike Yoda- it conveys the fact that Obi Wan and Yoda really did feel Anakin was truly lost, and also how desperate the cause had become. And yet, this young, partially-trained, physically small person turned out to be the strongest, wisest and bravest of all.

I've mentioned it before, but I honestly think if Luke was cast now, the part would not go to someone as small and slight as Hamill was then. But it was genius casting, to see him fight against the massive bulk of Vader (especially in silhouette) and hold his own. Again, just demonstrating that the Force is more powerful than conventional sources of strength.

So true. I have to say, my otherwise stoic husband always comes in the room to watch the part where Luke says "I've got to save you," and Vader says, "You already have." Then he sniffles a little, and goes back to whatever he was doing.

The whole father/son dynamic really rings true to him as a son, and as a father.

 

Well for your husband it's a proud fatherly moment but for Luke he may have this moment with Rey in a daughter like moment only she will reject him, if Ben was brought into this situation fans I think want Luke to live & be redeemed.