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SPECULATION Luke left because he didn't want to murder Ben

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by Sithwalker, Jan 15, 2016.

  1. Sithwalker

    Sithwalker Rebel General

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    He probably witnessed it all, Ben might've killed his wife too.. leaving a huge rage and hatred in him. So he didn't want to take revenge and destroy himself, his family, his nephew. So he left. Because one sight of Ben, and he would strike him down.
     
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  2. A Few Luke Screws

    A Few Luke Screws Rebel General

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    Never thought about this. Maybe he WAS filled with rage and hatred like you said, and the reason he left was to keep from succumbing to the dark side. This would take away the argument that his self-exile totally goes against his character as we saw in Jedi that he was willing to die rather than embrace the dark side. This would serve to show just how much he is willing to sacrifice from turning to the dark side because he knows that if he did, the Galaxy would truly be lost. I like your thinking.
     
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  3. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I think that stranding himself for THAT is too literal imagery...
     
  4. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Its certainly a possibility. Gandalf refuses the ring . . . "trough me the ring would access a power to great and terrible to imagine." That sort of thinking is definitely in the realm of old wizard hermit that Luke has always took Jedi for.
     
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  5. tjsolo

    tjsolo Rebelscum

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    This is the most reasonable explanation I have seen. It is easily explainable in the next movie in a few sentences. Also, it would be in Luke's character not to strike a loved one down in anger and hatred.
     
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  6. Ninjitsubob

    Ninjitsubob Rebelscum

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    Lmao I love how short this was too. And it makes perfect sense.
     
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  7. TheWusster

    TheWusster Rebel Commander

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    I have defended the "premise" of luke being on Ach-To since seeing the film.

    A thread like this just reminds us that it was a daring move for the filmmakers. But, until we see episodes 8 and 9, we truly won't know what went down and why Luke left.
    We only have Han's brief synopsis: "an apprentice turned against him and destroyed it all."

    I am of the opinion that since day one, people saying "Luke would never do that" have been incredibly short sighted and are prematurely judging.

    We will see... I think Luke may not have witnessed the massacre. And i think his exile is about more than just "blaming himself".

    He knows things. Maybe things that no one else in TFA knows... Apart from Kylo, perhaps.

    Rest assured, it's going to be interesting.
     
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  8. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Would killing him to stop him from killing others actually turn Luke to the dark side? To me it's the right thing to do. Obi-Wan and Yoda counted on Luke killing Vader. Luke says "I can't do it Ben, I can't kill my own father" and Ben replies "then the Emporer has already won, you were our only hope..."

    So I'm having a hard time understanding how Luke defending his family and preventing future murders, would be taking revenge? If Snoke attacked his Jedi and Luke killed him it would be different somehow? Luke NOT killing the evil one, regardless of relationship, is irresponsible.
     
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  9. Pastor Barndog

    Pastor Barndog Force Attuned

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    Your judging the action. Of course we see the understanding that he stopping future evil and horror and would be justified.

    Luke is worried of his motive while taking the action. The emperor once encouraged him, "Strike me down in all your hate and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete." He understands his feelings he is aware of them and suspects if he took the action he could not do it with the right motive. Because he would use those hateful motives it would unleash the Darkside through his actions.
     
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  10. ArynCrinn

    ArynCrinn 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    You just answered your own question.
    Luke refused to kill his own father.
    Through compassion (the light side of the force), he found a better way.

    Why would Luke kill Ben? What has Ben done, that has made killing him the only solution remaining?
    We know that in the beginning of the film at least, that Ben is still torn between the light and the dark.
    Are you suggesting that Luke didn't sense the conflict within Ben?

    Interesting thing about the whole situation, is that neither the film, the novel, or the visual dictionary explicitly mention that Ben killed all the Jedi who Luke was training.
    All we are told is that he turned against Luke and "destroyed it all." The visual dictionary says that he was responsible for "their destruction."
    I think there's a lot more to this story than we know.

    Killing Ben is the easy path that leads to the Dark Side. Not only is it easy, but it doesn't actually solve the problem. Snoke will just find someone else.

    So I ask again, why would Luke kill Ben?

    How would Luke ever reconcile that action with Leia?
     
    #10 ArynCrinn, Jan 16, 2016
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  11. duch_wpicuje

    duch_wpicuje Rebel Trooper

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    I don't think so. But I like the idea of Chewie shooting Han's son - Han was his best friend!
     
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  12. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Ok, forget killing Ben. Why didn't Luke stick around to find him, arrest him, kill Snoke etc? Luke leaving for that reason is completely irresponsible. If the situation is what OP hypothesized, Luke simply retreating because he didn't have the correct motives in his heart and would have done something leading to the dark side, would mean Luke hasn't grown a bit.

    Im sorry, but Luke could have disarmed him or even ended Ben for killing his wife and Jedi students. He could have done it without emotion. Luke would have killed Snoke or any other dark side user had they killed his students. I fail to see how being his nephew made a difference. As for Leia. She just had her fighters try and blow up the planet her son was on. She's about doing what's right for the greater good. She almost killed her son because he was on the wrong side. She felt the light in him, but he's a killer and must be stopped.
     
  13. ArynCrinn

    ArynCrinn 1030th Lieutenant (Jr Mod)

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    An even better question: Where was Luke when Ben betrayed him?

    There's a lot about this story which doesn't add up, which tells me that either the lead story team (Arndt, Kasdan, Simon Kinberg, Pablo Hidalgo, Kiri Hart + Dave Filoni, and later, J.J. Abrams) really have no clue what they're doing, or there is an intentional misdirection.
    Remember when Obi-Wan told Luke that Vader betrayed and murdered his father? I get the feeling that this story is the equivalent to that in the new trilogy.

    How do you know Luke could even kill Snoke? Has Luke even met Snoke?
    For Snoke to have been around as long as he has, without ever being discovered, he must be an incredibly powerful Force user. Possibly even more powerful than Palpatine.

    Luke couldn't defeat the Emperor (Anakin did). Luke couldn't stop even Snoke from influencing Ben. What's makes you think Luke can defeat him?

    Snoke only fears Luke's role in the rise of the new Jedi; he doesn't fear Luke. That's why he wants to find him before the Resistance do. If Snoke can find Luke before Leia does, he can make sure the Jedi never return.


    We don't even know Ben killed anyone. Everyone uses their words carefully when talking about it.
    Destroyed =/= killed. For all we know, Ben "killed" the Jedi in the same way Darth Vader "killed" Anakin Skywalker.

    By the time Luke faced Vader at the end of ROTJ, Vader had killed Luke's mother (, Obi-Wan, women, children, Jedi (inc. younglings), and had played a large part in


    Starkiller had just destroyed the Republic Senate and fleet, and was now preparing to destroy the Resistance, of which Leia was a part of. She didn't really have a choice.

    Besides, did Leia even know Ben would be there?

    QUOTE="techsteveo, post: 234235, member: 672"]She felt the light in him, but he's a killer and must be stopped.[/QUOTE]
    That's exactly the point; Leia still believed he could be saved. Leia didn't even believe that way about Vader.

    If Leia believes that, I imagine Luke would too.
    And it's not like Ben has been travelling around the galaxy destroying entire planets.
    Ben has been travelling the Galaxy searching for Luke.
    Why would Luke stop that?

    Luke can't save everyone. He might be strong in the Force, but he's not that strong.

    People are really making Ben Solo far worse a person than he was depicted as in the film (at least, up until he killed Han). He's really no worse than Vader.
     
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  14. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    Well, that idea IS a reality...:)
     
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  15. Jadore4

    Jadore4 Rebel Trooper

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    Yikes, I hadn't thought of that. I hope she was having an awful lot of faith in Han in getting him back on that trip? Ugh. I'm glad I don't have to make decisions like that. However, I really doubt she's thinking "Ben's a killer and must be stopped." She's likely thinking about saving the Resistance from destruction and that the First Order and its Starkiller must be stopped. Her son would be an unfortunate and tragic collateral loss.
     
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  16. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    But did she KNOW he was on there for a fact ?
     
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  17. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    Of course she knew. BUT, even if she didn't she figured it out when her son killed Han.
     
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  18. Jadore4

    Jadore4 Rebel Trooper

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    Probably not 100%. But the likelihood was good since they knew he took Rey and they all assumed that's where Rey was when they went to rescue her.
     
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  19. AstromechRecords

    AstromechRecords Jedi General

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    I think that the might have also been hoping that Snoke would be there as well .
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2016, Original Post Date: Jan 16, 2016 ---
    Well hey knew that REY a was here because Finn said so .
    --- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2016 ---
    .
     
  20. techsteveo

    techsteveo Force Sensitive

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    My answer was based on the OP's theory. Based on his theory, Luke left because he didn't want to kill Ben Solo and turn to the dark side. I'm just saying that Luke killing Ben with a lightsaber or Leia killing him with her fighters (they also attacked Takodana and Kylo could have been killed in that attack technically) makes no difference and doesn't mean they are automatically going to the dark side. Luke retreating and not trying to bring his little punk nephew to justice doesn't sit right with me. He would either capture him, or kill him if he just killed his Jedi students and/or his wife. He wouldn't run to protect his dark side little punk nephew. And he wouldn't run from the dark side. He's been there before. Only now one would assume he more powerful and much wiser.

    Now, what is possible in the context of what we've been shown is that Ben Solo may have done something that led to the destruction of Luke's students, not that he killed them himself. Perhaps he gave Snoke the opportunity by telling him when Luke would be gone. Or maybe Ben tricked Luke into leaving and thats when they attacked. Who knows. Personally, I think the attack on Luke's Jedi and the abandonment of Rey are unrelated and for different reasons. According to Pablo, Rey would have been alive and living on Jakku as a scavenger when Luke left.
     
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