Luke never told Vader who really trained him.

"Well, it's his story to tell- his way."​

Of course it is. That doesn't mean he's necessarily going to do a good job of it. Ignoring backstory elements "because it's my story and I'll do what I want" is still ignoring backstory elements, and that's just sloppy writing.

"The fact is: Obi-wan DID end up training Anakin, regardless as to how it came about."​

It does matter how it came about, though, when Obi Wan sat there in ROTJ and told Luke how it came about. He didn't just say "I trained your father" and leave it at that, now did he?

"When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how strongly the Force was with him. [In the PT, he ended up being far more appalled than amazed by this.] I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. [He actually spent the entire second half of TPM trying to persuade Qui Gon NOT to train him, and then only ended up training him after Qui Gon forced a deathbed promise from him to do so.] I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong." [He was still a Padawan when he asked to be allowed to train Anakin. Even if we allow for Obi Wan's youthful audacity, there is no way in hell that he would have ever, at that point in time, entertained thoughts of being able to be as good a teacher as Yoda.]

These things DO matter. It's what a writer has to keep track of and incorporate into his writing if he is going to build a prequel story that isn't a ragged mess.

As for Anakin's turn to the dark side, Lucas didn't even have it clear in his head how that was going to occur until he was well into production of ROTS. In fact, he ended up rewriting that whole part of his script at the last minute, because initially he had Anakin turning to the dark side during that scene where he first pulled his saber on Palpatine in Palpatine's office. At least he realized how weak and unbelievable that would have been, but even with the turn scene moved to the scene where Mace tries to arrest Palpatine, Anakin still goes from being a decent if confused guy to being a full-on psychopath in the space of about five minutes. And although he gave a few lines like the one about "My new Empire", that still comes out of absolutely nowhere. There's a big difference between effective and believable character development and just having a character say a line. When it comes right down to it, Anakin's turn to the dark side ended up being about as believable as Padme's death from "losing the will to live" was. These things happened in the movie because they needed to happen, and not because the story effectively set the stage for them to happen.

But that's getting a bit far afield of the topic at hand, which is Lucas' cavalier attitude toward continuity and backstory. He's always made it clear that he hates writing, and he wrote the PT in a way that reflected this fact all too clearly.

 

But... I'm afraid I've kind of led the overall thread off track, and I apologize for that. Much as I do have a real problem with continuity being ignored, that's not what this thread was initially supposed to be about. Sorry, folks!

 

Again, all of that is being subjective- which isn't the position that I'm discussing this from (Objective), but it's entirely your right to approach this with. I never said or even suggested that I fully agree with and/or support all of his writing decisions at all, actually there's a LOT of differences that I would've preferred to have seen in the story's presentation that would've made it even more believable and enjoyable for me, and I think would've served the story better. However, as far as continuity is concerned, to me it's certainly maintained between Trilogies. It's obvious that you simply just don't like how he chose to maintain it lol. I appreciate your right to have that opinion.

Edit: Oh yeah and my bad for my participation in the accidental/incidental derailment of the thread. Dekka its been fun!

 

Yeah that's always seemed pretty obvious to me and I'm not sure where all these other convoluted ideas came from.

TCW is pretty much all the prequel ideas George couldn't fit into the movies and and it does contradict a lot of these assumptions about Anakin's motives. The slave mentality and loss of his mother fed into his behavior in II and initial power-hunger but he really developed an ends justify means mentality, growing mistrust of the Council, sense of entitlement and demeaning sense of ownership over Padme between II and III. He's fed Palpatine's lines about the Jedi as the cause of the war and at some point really just wants to war to be over and blames the Council for not letting it. Most of the things he says in III had been brewing for a while.

 

Indeed, jealousy (Obi-wan's council status/influence) and possessiveness (Padme') were two of the biggest drivers of his descent into darkness. Greed (wanting to have more control over circumstances via a greater command of the Force) was a biggie as well. And, yes, these issues had been affecting him long before ROTS. I don't believe these notions to be debatable at all.

As far as his 'growing mistrust of the Council' is concerned, that was more of his wanting them to kowtow to Palpatine's tactics of getting him into a more influential role. Anakin was simply being self-centered and greedy. Sure he wanted the war to be over, but he was thinking more about his own title/position than anything else. He just felt that the Council was in the way. Like I said in an earlier post, there's no way that he genuinely felt that the Order were the "bad guys". He just got caught up into delusions of grandeur

 

I had read that somewhere also. Don't remember if it came from the novelization or if I read that it was in one of the drafts. But it was when all three (Vader, Emporer and Luke) were standing in the Throne Room and Yoda had come into Luke's thoughts and the Emp picked up on it. Can't remember what was said.

 

I think Anakin's force ghost realised it when he was besides Yoda and Obi-Wan.. Yoda saved the day basically

 

Yoda was never brought up in the movies but Palpatine did indeed figure it out and mention it in the ROTJ novel.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2015, Original Post Date: Oct 12, 2015 ---

It was in the ROTJ novel. Palpatine did indeed figure out Yoda had trained Luke.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 12, 2015 ---

I think the real deal here was Yoda and Obi Wan trying to figure out how that old dude/young kid (take your pic) figured out how to become a force ghost in the first place! Secret that technique is! Learn it how the heck you did?

 

and in the first draft of the ROTJ screenplay, Yoda's ghost and the Emperor meet:


YODA: "It is you who have failed, my old friend."

EMPEROR: "You!"

YODA: "Evil one, this will be the last day of your existence."

 

Qui-Gon: I'm Qui-Gon Jinn. I was Obi-Wan's master.

Luke: But Obi-Wan said Yoda was his master.

Qui-Gon: Obi-Wan speaks "from a certain point of view." You should know that by now.

 

How do you know it was a 6-month period?

 

Vader assumes that Luke's training prior to Obi-Wan's death was more extensive than it was.

 

The only explanation that I can think of in regards to leia is that she isn't strong in the force. Maybe yoda was wrong in assuming Leia was as strong as Luke in the force because they are twins. The only indication we have in the whole trilogy that Leia could be force sensitive is the telepathic scene between her and luke at the end of TESB. Now this could be a simple gut feeling on her part because of the strange almost telepathic bond some twins are suppose to have anyway. If you really think about it, If Leia had any force abilities at all surely it would have manifested itself at some point during the trilogy. If you think about any of the scrapes she had with the empire surely the force within her would have presented itself in some way. But no there is nothing. She purely gets by on her guile, courage and brashness. Having said all that Luke in ANH didn't really reveal any abilities in the force apart from during the short lightsaber lesson and when he destroyed the Death Star at the end without the aid of his targeting system. All this happened because of his lessons and influence from obi wan. Maybe that is why leia's force abilities lay dormant because she didn't have a teacher. Either way I don't believe Vader sensed Leia to be force sensitive in any way. This is confirmed when he only became aware of her through reading Luke's mind at the end of ROTJ. When Vader said "if you won't turn to the darkside maybe she will..." it seems to me Vader like Yoda may have wrongfully assumed Leia was as strong in the force as Luke was. I'm more than aware that I'm trying to defend GL in this and I admit I'm probably wrong. The other thing is maybe Yoda was right about Leia when he answered Obi wan in TESB about luke being the last hope and yoda replied with "no there is another." It doesn't necessarily mean she has to save the galaxy through the force as a Jedi but she can as a strong leader.

 

It's common knowledge the events of ROTJ; the plan to rescue Han from Jabba's palace was approx 6mo after the medical cruiser scene in TESB. It's NOT 3 calendar years as many viewers-fans first thought.
If you listen carefully they say that too in the final dialogue.