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SPECULATION Luke Skywalker: His Very Own Villain

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by JediMasterRobert, Oct 18, 2017.

  1. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    With all the speculation surrounding the state of Luke Skywalker's mind and whether or not he might have somehow fallen to the Dark Side, I had to think about this a bit.

    My concerns grew deeper with the release of the official movie poster as well as things such as in-theater displays (e.g. the dual IMAX featuring Luke on both "Light" and "Dark" sides).

    But then I realized, Luke could be a villain -- to himself.

    This being the classic "character vs. herself/himself" conflict:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conflict_(narrative)#Man_against_self

    Having lost Ben and being defeated in his efforts to teach a new generation of Jedi, Luke is widely believed to have taken this all very badly, understandably.

    If it has gone, at least in part, as I might imagine it could have, then Luke perhaps was shaken to his very core and left rather faithless in the Jedi way -- above all his own use of and relationship to the Force.

    His quest for the first Jedi Temple is notable in that I believe it was motivated by a search for answers -- about the Jedi and ultimately himself.

    I believe part of Rey's role is that she can fulfill what was expressed in The Journal of the Whills:

    "First comes the day
    Then comes the night.
    After the darkness
    Shines through the light.
    The difference, they say,
    Is only made right
    By the resolving of gray
    Through refined Jedi sight."
    [ source: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Journal_of_the_Whills ]

    I believe Rey can serve as somewhat of a light to Luke, who has allowed himself to slip a bit beneath the veil of the Dark Side, which "clouds everything," as Yoda once said.

    I believe the Force could be working through Rey to prompt Luke out of his interior conflict and once again step forth to play a positive and prominent role in restoring the balance disturbed by Snoke and the First Order.

    Rey could help rekindle Luke's faith -- in himself and ultimately in the Force.

    Perhaps, to become who he must become, in light of the history of the Jedi and the Sith, Luke must be inspired to find a way moving past those belief systems to transcend the binary conflict all too often primitively expressed in "black and white" terms.

    Not that I believe this means he must become a so-called "Grey Jedi," but rather to become someone who appreciates the greater nuances, mysteries, and natural flow of the Force, which, perhaps is itself frustrated or tired of being wielded by agents claiming to know how to use it best or most effectively.

    The planet Rey finds Luke on is such a stirring metaphor: surrounded by water -- life -- and the infinite complexity of wave upon wave, and the depths beneath, upon which only tips of island peek through:

    this, I believe, is such a great metaphor for both the Force and those who tap into it.

    The islands are akin to different belief systems: on one there is the Jedi, on another the Sith, and so on.

    They seem distinct but are, whether they choose to admit it or not, ultimately part of something greater.

    There's a wonderful poem I'd especially recommend in this context: "No Man Is An Island" by John Donne.

    So when Luke says, "It's so much bigger," in the teaser trailer, I think he may have already begun to understand this.

    I was also thinking that ihe idea of "Balance" is also something which can enforce a primitive/Prequel Trilogy understanding of the Force: an "us vs. them" mentality, where one group inevitably pits itself against another because it feels it has the more "correct" belief as to how to proceed.

    On a side note: this is also why I believe Lor San Tekka's quote ("without the Jedi there can be no balance in the Force") is spoken by a character who very quickly meets an end at the hand of Kylo Ren, who hails from the Dark Side, which has never had any interest in seeing a healthy balance.

    (Somewhere in the background is an echo of the old Sith credo: "Peace is a lie.")

    Pride and self-righteousness left the Jedi open to self-defeat, and it took but a little Sith to end such balance.

    I want to believe Luke would no longer embrace such a limited view which predestines the galaxy to prolonged conflict.

    More than that, it would seem Luke must overcome his concerns and fears as well.

    I also want to believe that, once Luke can move past his grief, forgive himself, and find his true place in all of this -- just as Rey wishes to do -- he can and will "fulfill his destiny" as the greatest of Jedi, having learned all the painful lessons of the past and with the certain intent not to repeat those mistakes.

    Then, for me, it all makes sense:

    Luke can play a kind of "villain" to himself (and perhaps seemingly to Rey, at first) until, as the Journal seems to imply, his "sight" can be "resolved" to see beyond the "gray."

    Then we can look forward to not only a new "Return of the Jedi" but a potential renaissance of Force wisdom teachers who can take the larger picture -- the Cosmic Force -- into consideration and begin to help everyone -- Force-wielders and others -- discover their own contexts within this greater mystery and work together to limit or end conflict and suffering.

    I believe it is possible, and such a resolution can only be cultivated by beginning within:
    • forgiving yourself
    • believing in yourself
    • moving past selfishness
    • acting selflessly
    • bonding with others
    • trusting in life / the Force

    Needless to say, such thinking and awareness is not only limited to the fictional realm of Star Wars!
     
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  2. tm0910196

    tm0910196 Guest

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    So, pardon my ignorance here, but if I'm reading this right, you're saying Luke is still a good guy, deep down, but is perceived as evil (or almost evil) by himself and others?
     
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  3. mrverylongusername

    mrverylongusername Rebelscum

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    Luke is the Fisher King, Rey is Perceval
     
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  4. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    I deeply believe (and hope it is proven beyond doubt) Luke is good.

    Perception is, as the fateful Journal quote seems, to me, to reveal as a key element in all of this:

    moving beyond "a certain point of view" to a greater awareness beyond dichotomies (e.g. Jedi vs. Sith).

    Doubting himself is natural, given his experiences, and his late / partial training as a Jedi -- which I think could be something he might consider problematic and yet it is the very thing that can enables him to move past any failed past teachings.

    Not being fully indoctrinated as a Jedi from when he is a child can be an advantage here, I think, and his "incomplete" (Yoda's word) training was a good thing in the end.

    The Jedi way gave him a foundation to proceed as an agent of light, goodness, and did not have such a fatal claim on his mind and heart to prevent the Force (and Life itself) to guide him beyond any memorized Jedi code or tradition.
     
    #4 JediMasterRobert, Oct 18, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2017
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  5. FN-3263827

    FN-3263827 First Order CPS
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    excellent post @JediMasterRobert (and good to see you back!) : D

    your insight about Lor Tekka is particularly astute: a lot of people cite his line as certification that the Jedi are absolutely necessary--without considering Lor Tekka's profound bias (and perhaps our own since the Jedi are percevied to be "good"). i love the potential duality of Lor Tekka and Ren (both of them neither actual Jedi nor Sith), acting out the cycle of destruction that is, in fact, the legacy of those two groups (and possibly telegraphing the perpetual failure of their conflict).

    i also believe that Luke is good, but wounded (back to the Fisher King again).

    the galaxy doesn't need a battle. it doesn't need warriors. it needs healing and peacemakers.
     
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  6. Choose Light

    Choose Light Mando Maven and Brown Eyes Backer

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    Thanks for these insights, @JediMasterRobert. I especially like your idea of Lor San Tekka and Kylo Ren representing the perpetual conflict the Jedi-Sith binary engenders.

    It is painful to see Luke not the hero we probably pictured him becoming at the end of RotJ, but I like your idea that he can, as part of his character arc, eventually "make it right" and "resolve" the deeper problem of Force use/understanding by finding a solution that is "so much bigger," beyond where we've gone in these movies before.
     
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  7. PlagueisLivesDuh

    PlagueisLivesDuh Rebel Commander

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    You know, Luke was never that brilliant or insightful. In fact, he was just a simple moisture *farmer* with a lot of luck.

    What if Luke is the Chauncey Gardiner of Jedi Masters? It might make for an interesting watch of original films pretending Luke is just along for the ride (he kind of is at the mercy of other decision-makers really) as a OP'd simpleton with an IQ of 80....

    I just rewatched the TLJ trailer with this in mind and it hilariously fits the motif. Of note are Luke's facial expressions and simple word choices.

    Maybe we just *think* everything he says or does is profound....
     
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  8. Demsa Aztor

    Demsa Aztor Rebel General

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    I think Luke's greatest battle he will have is with himself, as so many of us will and are encountering in our lives.
     
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  9. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    Isn't this what Star Wars is REALLY all about? :)
     
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  10. Trevor

    Trevor Rebellion Arms Supplier
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    Yes it always has been, but I think we've strayed...of been LED astray purposely so that when this very thing comes to pass, we're to be surprised and relieved, when it was actually to be this way all along..

    Excellent, EXCELLENT, observation @JediMasterRobert and I think you are RIGHT on track. It's just going to be a matter of WHAT path the movie-makers take us on in order to come to this...that will probably be wrapped up nicely in IX.
     
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  11. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    I think you may be right.
     
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  12. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    Excellent parallels!

    I've alluded to Arthurian lore multiple times earlier, in this forum, especially with regards to The Force Awakens and the Sequel Trilogy in general.

    Glad to hear others think along these lines and make those connections.

    The mythological depths of Star Wars go very deeply, connecting with our own, renewing many of our own time-tested myths for new generations, all while also expressing something mythologically new through modern symbols and metaphors we can trace the inspirations for which back to our own past stories and philosophies.


    Healing really is the key, especially if The Last Jedi continues Arthurian themes established in The Force Awakens, as mrverylongusername pointed out.

    The galaxy is a veritable Waste Land, and it (along with "Fisher King" Luke) requires some major healing.

    Peacemaking seems to be a very difficult task, as of Episode VII, but it is the only way to break from this otherwise endless loop of suffering.

    This is why I think the whole idea of looking past "balance" (a temporary equilibrium between darkness and light) is crucial and requires a greater understanding of the Force than either the Jedi or the Sith could achieve.

    Luke is the rare person, the unlikely anomaly (like Neo), who could rise up through such a system, despite all efforts to block his progress, to help everyone reach a new "post-Matrix" system of understanding, freedom, and willful peace.


    I agree, it is painful. I find it nearly impossible to hear Luke speak anything of fear, but I am hoping it is with very good reason. His character cannot merely be sacrificed for shock value or simply to make room for the rise of Rey. I hope and believe, at this moment, until the movie comes out, Luke will eventually live up to what we expect of him and perhaps exceed our expectations.


    Channeling my inner Obi-Wan: "In my experience, there's no such thing as luck."

    That said, Luke's simple beginnings and innocence are very well-established in Episode IV.

    Given his Force-family heritage, we know what ostensibly might pass for "luck" was indeed the Force.

    I also believe, in our own world, that we would be more ostensibly "luckier" (i.e. more in tune with the "Force") if we could be more mindful and thoughtful and more selfless in our thoughts, words, and actions.

    The Force, rising from life, partially controls actions yet obeys commands, as Obi-Wan first explained to Luke.

    In our own world the "Force" of choice and consequence stem from all living and active things, and all of that bears upon our existence while, at the same time, we can exercise "free will" and introduce choices and changes, or at least some influence (positive or negative) to that larger system.

    There is a concept called the "Butterfly Effect" which demonstrates this on a modest yet real physical level. Also, in the quantum sense, there is the phenomenon of observations affecting outcomes.

    All of which is simply to say whatever we do does count/register in some way, and the consequence(s) of those collective actions give rise to a greater flow of energy, effects, and virtual destinies.


    Yes, the internal struggles can be every bit as epic as external ones, and, while most of Star Wars' struggles seem to play out physically on the screen, there are, in fact, many psychological battles being fought as well among characters and with themselves.

    So true!


    Thank you very much, Trevor. I'm really hoping this is more what Luke's about, this internal struggle, him being his own villain, because it would be heartbreaking and antithetical to see such a heroic and beloved character simply cower and turn to the Dark Side.

    While I do expect the story to find continuance in Episode IX, I would hope the storytellers give us enough information to understand and be assured about Luke in Episode VIII.

    Some things simply should not be left as cliffhangers.



    Thanks! I hope =)
     
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  13. Colonel_Ender

    Colonel_Ender Rebel Official

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    Luke, life goes on, pull yourself together...
     
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  14. JediMasterRobert

    JediMasterRobert Rebel Official

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    Indeed! And Luke is on what could even be considered a planetary Jedi spa, something surging with water and life all about him, such that it should have a profound Force and physically environmental role and effect on his state of mind.

    It's also a metaphoric womb (matrix):

    where one can be reborn into the universe.

    Neo.
     
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  15. Bluemilk

    Bluemilk I AM the Senate

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    I'm glad you're not Luke's therapist.
     
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  16. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    That's literally the worst thing one can say to a depressed person.
     
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  17. FN-3263827

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    i agree: this whole galaxy needs serious therapy. : o (
     
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  18. The Hero With No Fear

    The Hero With No Fear Resident Sand Hater

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    Some very nice insight here! Skywalkers being their own enemies is kind of a trend.
     
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  19. TheGreyandTheRed

    TheGreyandTheRed Rebel General

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    Finally an understanding that matches my own. Fantastic post, very well explained. To be honest this was almost identical to the thread I was going to start once I have the relevant permissions (damned 30 post restriction) albeit yours is probably far more poetic and eloquent than what I was to write.

    For too long has Star Wars just been a case of black vs white or light vs dark its about time they started looking at the middle ground. Like palpatine said in ROTS 'evil is a point of view'. I would like to see the dichotomy explored further and ultimately its limitations such as good breeds evil and vice versa.

    Best and most original post so far. Congrats
     
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  20. Dark Toilet

    Dark Toilet Force Sensitive

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    Yeah, @JediMasterRobert is wicked smaht like that...
     
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