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Luke Skywalker,our hero ,forever.

Discussion in 'General Sequel Trilogy Discussion' started by McDiarmid, Apr 28, 2018.

  1. Background Character

    Background Character Rebel Official

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    Thank god Luke is not the Jesus-like, flawless superhero you wanted him to be. Instead, he's a relatable human, who reacts like a normal person would to tragedy, is susceptible to temptation and struggles with feelings of failure. In doing so, he becomes an infinitely more relatable and intriguing character. How is it remotely interesting at all to have Luke be a flawless Superman who basically hasn't changed in 35 years, and because he overcame temptation in Jedi, he is apparently made immune from any further temptation or personal weakness? How is it better to have Luke not be at all affected by the failure of his academy and the betrayal of his sister and best friend's son?

    Get over the notion that the force is a superpower and the people who use it are superheroes. If you want to watch superhero movies, there are no shortage of them out there. The reality is that Luke was a normal guy from a humble farm boy background who achieved great things by realizing his potential in the force. He was never perfect, he made serious mistakes along the way, he was fallible. He redeemed his father and overcame temptation, yes, but that experience didn't deify him. It made him a hero to the galaxy, a reputation that, over time, began to weigh on him because he was still susceptible to personal failings alongside his tremendous successes. In the end, he overcomes the feelings of failure and once again rises to his full potential to help his friends by sacrificing his own life -- the most heroic action that anyone can do -- and the character's arc ends beautifully and satisfyingly.
     
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  2. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    Fun fact - even though he's not officially involved in writing Star Wars content anymore, George still sends Kathleen Kennedy some new bits and pieces of Star Wars lore.
     
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  3. FastestKnight

    FastestKnight Force Sensitive

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    Even though I loved the movie and I'm happy with Luke's legacy, Lucasfilm better have thought about those 30 years after Jedi. I want to see Master Skywalker in his prime and not in a comic book!
     
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  4. ScumAndVillainy

    ScumAndVillainy Rebelscum

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    One of the biggest lies in the history of Hollywood.

    Then grab a phone and go make your movie for yourself.

    The difference between a good or bad director is directly related to how well they are able to harness the cast and crew to get the visuals they need to tell the story contained in the script. It has jack to do with some hippie dippie stuff about making movies for themselves. If they made movies for themselves, then don't bother releasing them. Why would you? You made this for an audience of one? Only show it to that person, the creator. These films are made to be shown in front of audiences worldwide, and put butts in seats and money in the bank. A director without an audience is unemployed.

    A company in charge of an IP that actively turns fans away from that product, won't be making that product for very long. He namechecks Lucas? That guy made 3 SW films after the OT in 22 years, and killed it for 10 more after he was done.

    You don't have to listen to the fans. More importantly, you have to be able to make something they like and are willing to pay to see. If you can't, you won't be a working director for very long.

    As we get farther and farther out from release and get some contrast and context, I think TLJ will be one of those movies that becomes truly despised.

    And poor Mark Hamill.. you can really see he's carrying the water of a company and director that failed on his back and ruined his character, but he's out there doing it... probably so he can have a couple scenes in 9 and collect a needed paycheck.
     
    #24 ScumAndVillainy, May 2, 2018
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
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  5. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    Go and watch ROTJ then. You will probably see Luke in his prime in a cartoon though.

    These were the words of Akira Kurosawa, one of the greatest directors ever.

    And another fan who thinks Luke's character was destroyed. I would have rather seen a much more failed Luke than Mark Hamill's fanficiton about a force god. Sorry, I love Mark Hamill, but his story would have been boring.
     
    #25 NinjaRen, May 2, 2018
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  6. ScumAndVillainy

    ScumAndVillainy Rebelscum

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    Not sure your point here! A lie is still a lie. Directors make movies to show other people and have since they first picked up a video camera. Most directors can't even really enjoy their own films, because by the time they finish they are too aware of the minutia and every flaw of the film from having made it. In fact, one of the best ways directors even enjoy their own film is by watching a crowd react, and having them do so in the way they were expecting.

    I mean... really.. you are aware that they have test screenings right? Why? So they can adjust based on crowd reaction. Anybody who claims a director is making a movie for themselves is either an insider stroking his/her ego, or is an outsider who knows nothing about the movie business.

    Pretty sure I saw him evaporate into nothingness! Are you claiming he didn't get destroyed and go to the great Force Ghost Tree in the Sky by projecting himself using the Force?
     
  7. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    You're confusing directors with producers, my friend.

    Are you trolling? I wasn't talking about his actual destruction or death. I was talking about his character arc.
     
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  8. FastestKnight

    FastestKnight Force Sensitive

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    Yoda himself said that Luke would be a Jedi ONLY after defeating Vader, so, Jedi Master Skywalker and how the Jedi continued through his teachings (and how the Galaxy is actually rebuilt only to fall again) is something more important than seeing why there was a flaw on the Death Star or the origins of Han Solo (again, I LOVED RO and can't wait to see Han, but you get the point).

    About the last point...why, to the defend the version we got, people always say that "haters wanted to see Jesus moving leaves with the Force for 2 hours"?

    You seriously believe this is the only way of doing it?

    You seriously believe a young, hopeful and naive Jedi Master Skywalker, dealing with his legacy, teaching the ways of the Force as the last Jedi to a group of students while at the same time, taking care of the remenants of the Empire and the begginings of the First Order, all of these while Han and Leia raise their troubled son, would be boring?

    Reading comments anywhere, I'm seriously tired of the Last Jedi scenario. If you didn't like the movie, "it's the worst thing evah". If you loved it, "the original characters were boring anyway and there was no other interesting way of approaching them except the Rian way".

    I loved it and I want to see more Luke on the big screen before anything Han or Obi Wan-related and Mark sadly won't last forever. What's the problem?
     
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  9. ScumAndVillainy

    ScumAndVillainy Rebelscum

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    Nope!

     
  10. KesselRunner

    KesselRunner Rebel Official

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    Who are they? Just kidding. ;) I think what I was really trying to get at was that I'm wary of the phrase "written and directed by". It reminds me of certain films I'd rather not be reminded of (but that's another discussion entirely). :D
     
    #30 KesselRunner, May 2, 2018
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  11. Pawek_13

    Pawek_13 Jedi General

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    That was delightful! Why didn't George direct any non-SW films after that?
     
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  12. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    You underestimate the brilliant storytelling tradition and art direction in all Star War movies. I refuse to view these films as mere market products. Not even the prequel films, which I profoundly dislike, were moneymaking ventures. The beauty of Star War movies lies precisely in the fact that, even though they are huge movies that make a lot of money, they are primordially about heart. They are movies about big themes, philosophy, family, technology, politics. There is a lot of entertainment too and that is why they work so well: They don't patronize the audience. Popcorn doesn't necessary mean safe and formulaic. If RJ did something right, it was to take the Star Wars themes he inherited seriously, and serve them by devising a deep yet entertaining story that did not bow to fan wish-fulfilment. He did not make a perfect movie, granted, but Lucas never made a perfect movie either. What both directors (and also JJ) did certainly do was to offer films full of surprises, excitement and possibilities. To say Star War films should just be market products is to minify your own attachment to them, and that, I think, is sad and wrong.
     
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  13. eeprom

    eeprom Prince of Bebers

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    Because getting a director that actually enjoys directing, like Spielberg, to put your ideas together for you is way less stressful.
     
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  14. KyloRen1981

    KyloRen1981 Rebel Commander

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    1. My master's degree was from a film program. One of the biggest lessons is that if you're making a commercial film, it's for your audience. *Not* for you.
    2. I currently teach kids video game design. One of the biggest lessons we teach is that if you're making a commercial game, it's for your audience. *Not* for you.
    3. Creating a work of fiction that mindlessly panders to fans wishes in a boring and superficial way is *not* the only alternative to pissing off your fans by destroying/removing/dismissing the things they love.

    Keep in mind, I was never a big Star Wars fan until TFA and my favorite character is Kylo. So, I'm not speaking about myself when I try to explain why folks were upset by what was done with Luke in TLJ. But, I have open eyes and ears and I can see why they felt betrayed by the creators of this film, and I know media well enough to be certain the creators had other options.
     
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  15. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    He made his own movie ( a terrible one ) with the name Star Wars on it.

    I wouldn't have pay for a RJ movie but I paid for a SW one and it was a mistake.

    I got robbed.

    And for another topic, yes, Luke's arc was butchered and reduced to zero. What is the difference in the galaxy before and after Luke Skywalker ? There is no difference, there was an evil empire when Luke was born and there is another when he dies, his whole life was made useless by the director.

    I don't see the point of telling the life of Luke Skywalker now, he bringed nothing to people in the galaxy, he was just the one responsible of his darkness.

    So were Han and Leia too. Bunch of losers.
     
  16. NinjaRen

    NinjaRen Supreme Leader

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    You should really watched 'Looper' and 'Brick'. Then you'll see it's worth to pay for Rian Johnson.

    Yes, he may have been kinda responsible for Kylo Ren's creation. But he also helped to bring Kylo back to the light. At least for bit. Furthermore he helped the Resistance and Rey. You have to keep in mind that heroes don't have to do huge heroic acts or even saving the day. No.
     
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  17. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    He also helped to bring Kylo back to the light ? I might have miss something there ... By doing what ?

    My point was that telling the OT was useless considering Luke's arc and how his story finished.

    Why would someone tell the story of Luke Skywalker ? He changed nothing, he was pointless, that's the story that it is been told.

    He bringed Vader to the light ! Good ! And then completely screw the pooch by turning his nephew to the dark side and then he left and dies ...

    Cool story Bro'.
     
  18. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    Luke saved the Resistance and the Light in Crait with an ultimate sacrifice. He became a legend. That's the definition of heroic. What other fate would you have wished for Luke Skywalker? This was always going to be the path that, sooner or later, he was going to take.
     
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  19. Bandini

    Bandini Jedi Commander

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    Watch the movie again. The exit on Crait was a deadend. Rey saved the day. Not Luke.

    Count the people in the resistance at the start and at the end. 95% of the resistance soldiers are dead and they lost almost everything.

    I don't see anything heroïc there, he didn't even had the guts to come by himself.
     
  20. Kylocity

    Kylocity Rebel Official

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    You mistake heroics with brash action moves... Luke's fight and victory are of a spiritual kind, to give inspiration to the next generations and impetus to a new rebel movement. Remember that first and foremost, he has become a Jedi master, like Obi One and Yoda, and as such, he is more a philosopher than an action figure.

    By the end of the film the resistance is reduced in numbers but high in spirits. They have a new hope.

    Remember also that it was Luke who taught Rey how to use and control her power in the first lesson. As Yoda said: "We are what they grow beyond." You could say Rey's empowerment is Luke's doing.
     
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