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Luke Skywalker's portrayal and it's similarity with another fantasy character

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Last Jedi' started by Darth Chewie, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. Darth Chewie

    Darth Chewie Rebel Official

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    ****Alert, some possible Mandalorian Season 2 spoilers may be within....****

    The hate that RJ gets for his portrayal of Luke in TLJ is at times overwhelming, especially now that JF and DF have given fans their wanted head canon in Chapter 16 of the Mandalorian. Don't get me wrong, I loved the episode, and that great moment, but let's be 100% honest here; it was fan service that would even make JJ Abrams blush. It's important to understand that while the creators of that show want to do the fandom justice, they also need to make Disney money. Surprise guests and brining people back from the dead will ensure people tune in each week. While I am not complaining, I look forward to the day when we get a Star Wars story that does not rely on past events, nostalgia, or bringing characters back to life. I want something completely new and 100% disconnected from every character we know. But I digress....

    Rian's portrayal of Luke in the film may not have pleased some, and even Hamill had some initial problems with it, but to say that it was beyond reasonable for Luke to have behaved or acted the way he did with Ben Solo and then later on in his exile, is ridiculous. So let me explain...

    When you listen to Luke's dialogue as he explains to Rey what really happened between him and Ben, it's obvious that he had zero intent of walking into Ben's hut and murdering him. He had suspicions about Ben, and he wanted to probe his mind. Has he mentions, it was worse than he had feared. Now, from the movie we do not know exactly what Luke saw, but it was obviously horrible, perhaps he saw Ben killing his own father. Regardless, it obviously gave Luke a terrible case of PTSD and he had a fleeting emotional response to the moment....

    Pause...

    Skywalker's seem to be emotionally unstable at the best of times. Anakin for the most part was able keep his emotions in check, until Padme came back into the picture. We see it time and time again; He loses is temper when questioning Zam Wesell since she just attempted to murder Padme. He loses his focus when Padme falls from the carrier and Obi-wan has to order some sense back into him. In ROTS when Padme meets him on Mustafar, while he continues to go on about his desire for conquest, he remains fairly calm until Obi-wan appears, and then his emotional response is to choke out his pregnant wife. Anakin's response of "what have I done?" after he helps in the murder of Mace, shows that he allowed emotion to get the best of him in the moment and slightly regretted it, but understood he had crossed the point of no return.

    Luke is much the same in the OT. He is at peace training with Yoda, until he sees a vision of his friends being tortured. His emotional response to that was to pack up and walk into an obvious trap. In ROTJ, Luke keeps to his conviction of turning his father to the good side, during his entire capture and audience with Palpatine. Until that is, Vader threatens his twin sister sister, and he becomes emotionally unstable, tapping into the dark side and allowing hate to flow through him as he beats down the man he literally refused to fight just moments before. If it was not for the Emperor taunting and distracting him as he stood over a fallen Vader, Luke very well may have finished the job and killed his father.

    What we see in that moment, is how Luke was struggling as the fate of the galaxy rested on his shoulders. He took on a burden that perhaps he was never ready for. The events of the OT would surely scar Luke for the rest of his life. The things he saw, the things that were revealed to him, the choices he had to make and watching his friends suffer because of him, would be enough to make anyone want to just disappear for awhile.

    Another fantasy character also had a similar journey. Frodo Baggins had the fate of all Middle Earth on around his neck. By the end of his journey, he was so overwhelmed with what he had been through, that he eventually had to leave the place and the people he loved, just to be able to cope with all that he had been through.

    Un-pause... So as Luke probed Bens mind he like in his past, and not so dissimilar from his father, had an immediate emotional response to what he just witnessed. The thought of having to go through all of it again; the pain and suffering of friends, another all out war, the galaxy once again wanting to pin it's hopes on the "legend of Luke Skywalker", was for a brief second, all to much to bare once again...

    ...and then it passed like a fleeting shadow. Unlike Anakin when faced with either helping or murdering Mace, unlike a younger Luke, who perhaps needed the distraction from Palpatine to snap out of his rage before he killed his father, a much older and wiser Luke brought himself back from the darkness. But it was too late, and the rest is history.

    Rian Johnson then allows Yoda to give Luke one final lesson, and Luke shows becomes the hero we all needed him to be. The episode of the Mandalorian may have shown Luke in his prime and how powerful he was, but we've seen all that before. The Prequels, the Clone Wars, and Rebels, have all shown us Jedi and other force users in the prime showcasing "Boss Level" abilities. Luke demonstrated his true Jedi nature of using his skills for defense, never for attack in a way that blew all our minds as Rian gave us something new and completely unexpected. I only hope that future show and movie creators have the guts to do the same thing!
     
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  2. The Last Jorgny

    The Last Jorgny Rebel Official

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    Thank you for writing this. I have tried several times to summarize how I see these scenes in TLJ in the discussions about the movie and you are spot on.
     
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  3. Iotatheta

    Iotatheta Rebelscum

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    Makes sense to me. Well written and good comparison to Frodo (i know Filoni used it before as well, but well done on the comparison).

    I always loved seeing that aspect of Luke. I enjoy both versions, but absolutely love what Rian explored with it. Shame we won’t be able to get much more of Luke after that revelation with Yoda, the masterful Luke of old with the tempered wisdom, unless Ghost Luke appears to someone in future content.
     
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  4. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Great post @Darth Chewie !


    [​IMG]

    sNOKE sUCKS.jpg

    sNOKE sUCKS2.jpg
    Play with fire, get Mustafar'd.... I guess.​



    Does this mean that J-Fav and Filoni were resigned to this fate? Of using Luke to please fans and align him with fandom's head canon? Is there no chance that they disagreed with or, were unfulfilled by Luke's portrayal in the Sequels? Is there no chance that they simply wanted to portray Luke as a Jedi Knight in a lawless galaxy?


    Were you not the beneficiary of the same kind of thing? :) I have watched time and again, poster after poster.... and the majority rail against fan service while being fans of subverting expectation(s). A subverted double standard to me. :p I'm not attacking you personally, I've just reached my limit on MANDO-LUKE = FAN-SERVICE. :eek: Its really simple for me and maybe I'm just an old fool but it seems that the RJ hate boils down to those who were not impressed by Luke 'the quitter' Skywalker and those who loved that he went into self imposed exile. (x-wing 2)

    I am well aware of Mark's initial reaction(s) and subsequent discussions that he had with BOTH directors.
    In his own words, he freaked out over the differences... he even renamed the character Jake Skywalker.​

    After TLJ.JPG
    What resonates the most though, is Mark's face AFTER the premier of TLJ. To me; the SW fans many posters speak of, were not alone.
    Whatever he says now about it after the fact is legalese because he's contractually obligated.... that initial response tho. A look that kills.​


    Aside from the nostalgia part, Bioware's Knights of the Old Republic was all that and then some. A tale on par with the SAGA itself.


    Thanks again for making this thread. RJ made his Luke and the Mandalorian creators made theirs, different.
    Neither was right or wrong. Its just Luke, at different times in his life.
     
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  5. Iotatheta

    Iotatheta Rebelscum

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    i think, for me, this is the most important part between TLJ and Mando. Both are valid and can work together, and in fact do pretty well by how Luke speaks of his own legend, which can be seen in how he appears in Mando.

    personally, my ultimate issue with the “fanservice” aspect was less that he showed up, and more how, in that he was mainly a “kill droids epically and then take Grogu.” He didn’t feel like a character to me in that moment, mainly with how few lines. Part of that is possibly due to limitations in budget or the CGI used, but that was still my ultimate issue.

    Just on Mark though, since you brought it up, i believe that the initial comments came from the earlier filming, and his focus was on Luke not “giving up.” How do you reconcile that with him saying later that it was a matter of him not understanding how Luke had gotten there, which he then understood as time went on? Or how he also said he’s never been told to say anything? I’d have to see the context of that freeze frame, as a freeze frame can be..iffy at times when it comes to facial reactions. If the comments were that much of an issue, personally, i doubt they’d have been kept them in the BtS.
     
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  6. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    Screenshot is from the post premier interview with RJ & MH. In the shot, Mark is looking over at RJ as he "explains" Luke's "death" to the interviewer.


    Rumor at the time was: Disney didn't tell Mark that he actually died and he didn't find out UNTIL we did. I; for one, still believe that because I watched MH before & after the premier and he was not the same. Mark was legit pissed after the movie whereas he'd been bouncing off the walls, doing circles in one interview, crazy energy. The change in his behavior was.... decidedly different.



    Also did I mention Jake Skywalker.:p
     
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  7. Iotatheta

    Iotatheta Rebelscum

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    I can’t actually find that specific interview. The only thing I found of that shot had music overlaid so I can’t hear what is actually said, and the only other closest one was a joke when Hamill said “my part is twice as big as it was” and someone says “what’s 2 times 0?”

    ok, I found some comments from 2019. Seems he was hoping Luke’s death, if it came, would be in 9, and with 8 he felt like he only had one film. So it does sound as though it threw him off, but other comments seem to suggest he did enjoy it in the end.

    That said, it is possible he didn’t fully know. Depends on how secret the script was on some details or if it was a later decision during editing. Personally, I thought it was a gorgeous moment.
     
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  8. Lord of the Rens

    Lord of the Rens HATES: Clumsy AND Stupid

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    That video and the Jake Skywalker interview are in my post history; together, somewhere.

    I'll see if I can find them tonight or, tomorrow.
     
  9. Matt_T

    Matt_T Rebel General

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    The Drinker fixed him.
     
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  10. Iotatheta

    Iotatheta Rebelscum

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    Two minutes in (paused at the complaining about the map) and I regret potentially giving it a view. He’s already got a point wrong, imo

    pausing at 3 minutes, and i don’t think i can handle it anymore. “The drinker”...sounds almost like a drunk rant. Luke didn’t need fixing.
     
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  11. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    I have never been a fan of the portrayal of TLJ Luke, but I have to say that Mandalorian Luke has REALLY turned me off. If I was forced to choose the two, I would take TLJ now. I say this because of the outright giddiness of the fans towards Mandalorian Luke shows me so many in our fanbase don't want anything new. The Mandalorian was a good show that was finally taking the franchise in a new direction/new characters that wasn't relying on the OT in terms of the Skywalkers and Vader. Then the last few episodes started to creep back with the return of Boba Fett, and eventually Luke Skywalker. It felt like the franchise took two steps back.

    Again, I wasn't the biggest fan of TLJ Luke but it was something different. I just feel that everytime the franchise lurches back to the OT (the return of Palpatine in TROS, Luke in the Mandalorian, etc), we are back to square one again.
     
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  12. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    It’s quite the thing isn’t it?

    TFA reaction “arghh it is so much fan service, JJ just rebooted ANH”

    TLJ reaction “what the hell was that? It’s not Star Wars”

    This “fan base” drives me effing insane.
     
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  13. RoyleRancor

    RoyleRancor Car'a'Carn

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    I'm very lukewarm (eh) on the matter as well.
    If they had done more spacing between Boba, Bo Katan, Ahsoka and Luke....it'd feel different IMO.
    The last 3 Star Wars projects we've gotten have reverted safely back to the "old"
    Solo, TROS and now Mando.
     
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  14. Use the Falchion

    Use the Falchion Jedi Contrarian

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    I have been fighting to make the point about TLJ Luke being the same as OT Luke for a while now on different forums as well (using the exact same examples as you), so that part of your post feels VERY validating.

    In terms of similarity, Luke's arc in TLJ is the exact same as Iron Man's arc in Avengers: Endgame. This doesn't mean that if fans of one example have to like the other - life doesn't work that way. But I always funny and feel the need to point it out.
     
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  15. Jedi77-83

    Jedi77-83 Force Sensitive

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    Think about the 3 things that have 'moved the needle' with the fanbase since Disney brought the franchise from Lucas:

    -Vader in Rogue One going crazy on the Rebels

    -The return of Boba Fett in The Mandalorian

    -Luke's return in the Mandalorian

    The franchise will never move on as long these things move the needle with our fans, as it tells me a good chunk of the fanbase just want callbacks. Now I am not calling out the fans for wanting this because you can't argue with what people enjoy. I'm just saying you can't move on to new projects with new characters too much, because that part of the fanbase will never have a connection to them without some OT representation. It's the ultimate irony that the OT is probably the greatest movie Trilogy, yet it's that same Trilogy that continues to hold the franchise back. The positive reception from the return of Vader in R1 and Luke Mandalorian really proves it.
     
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  16. p03

    p03 Human/Cyborg Relations

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    I don't believe the rumours of Mark not knowing Luke's fate. We had at the time spoiler hounds on this very board and gave details of his death. I won't out of privacy reasons give out details but I have private messages talking about what she saw. Everything she said was correct (older posters may even know the poster in question). But one thing I will say, we were both fuming. Mark was not himself and this person was a big Mark Hamill fan and met him multiple times. She knew him quite well. Many of her photo's and descriptions ended up on Jason Ward's articles. How do I know, I saw the photos before he posted them. She went to both Dubrovnik and Ireland. She even posted details about the Broom Boy over on the boards at JFC.

    Mark 100% knew his story.
     
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  17. Lock_S_Foils

    Lock_S_Foils Red Leader

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    One of the Greatest Posts ever in the Cantina.

    Thank you and BRAVO!
     
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  18. Messi

    Messi G.O.A.T.

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    Probably that's why The Mandalorian feels so flat to me, so unoriginal. Its more of the same using the nostalgia to please the fans.
    Even if I like the show, or some part of it, in general they are showing us all the same again and again. Most of the success of this second season has it bases on nostalgia: Weequay, jawas, R5d4, Ashoka, Boba and Luke...
    Disney probably will deliver the same with the dozens of tv shows and movies that will arrive soon (Book of Boba included). That's a pitty.
    Star Wars before everything is cinema, and cinema is art, and art is creativity and the need to push the boundaries to deliver something new and surprising.
    The most original and different thing that we had after the OT was TLJ but the fans complained...so probably we will receive the same and the same, to please most of the fans.
     
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  19. StardustSoldier

    StardustSoldier Force Sensitive

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    I had a similar thought. After TFA and losing Han, I had a feeling that Luke's time might also come before the ST was over. But I thought for sure that if it did happen, it was going to happen in 9. Totally did not expect it to happen in 8. Ironically, even though it was Han's death that made me think Luke's would happen too, Luke's ended up surprising me more than Han's.
    We do have an interesting fanbase, don't we? ;) And the irony is that TFA was created the way it was in response to PT haters who wanted a return to the style of the OT. They got exactly what they asked for! :confused: At the very least, the PT seems to have become much more fondly regarded over time.

    I enjoy both the ST and The Mandalorian, and in both cases Luke's portrayal made sense to me. As Lord of the Rens said above, it's just Luke at different times in his life. Still, it does concern me a little that Luke's appearance in The Mandalorian seemed specifically written as a course correction and trying to appease the upset fans. I just hope that, going forward, they can find a way to square the difference between the two portrayals and not necessarily have it be one or the other.
     
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  20. RockyRoadHux

    RockyRoadHux Ginger General

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    Yes, to all and what @Lock_S_Foils and @RoyleRancor wrote.
     
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