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SPOILER Luke SPOILER (Also Ridley, Driver, Lupita, & MvS)

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by spectacle, Nov 2, 2014.

  1. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Rebel Official

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    Well, yeah. I must admit, my first impression of the grave robber artwork(s) was that it looks like mechanical stuff on top of skin, rather than stuff being revealed from beneath skin. But the fact the hand looked genuinely cybernetic kind of threw me off that train of thought.
    But if it was Luke in there, that still works... we have only really seen the right hand clearly so far, unless I've missed something...

    So it seems entirely possible Luke could be the "cyborg" character we have seen. And also be revealed to not be as cyborg as he might appear.

    Not sure what I make of it either way though, to be honest...
     
  2. Ceruleanlord

    Ceruleanlord Rebel General

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    The thoughts that are going around is Max Von Sydow will be this cyborg.
    Adam Driver will be the 'Warlord'
    Luke will be just Luke, with full beard.
    The 'Grave Robber' is still not identified, although my theory is it is Gleeson as Luke's son.
     
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  3. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Rebel Official

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    Yeah - get that. But I thought this thread was suggesting Luke might be the Grave Robber character.
    Not saying I personally think he is - just explaining how, as far as I can see, it could possible for him to be this character despite it also being true that "none of the main cast are cyborgs", as per the conflicting insider reports. We don't know the Grave Robber is necessarily what he appears to be.
    :)
     
  4. adamclark83

    adamclark83 Rebel General

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    Will we still have Driver being told to kill Luke's apprentice, so he goes after Boyega thinking it's him and soon learns it's actually Daisy that's his target?
     
  5. TIDMADT

    TIDMADT Jedi Biker
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    I've said for a while now that what everyone is referring to as a cyborg is a mask...

    Exactly...

    I think Grave Robber was an earlier stage of development of the Warlord...
     
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  6. Bluestreaking

    Bluestreaking Imperial Grand Admiral with Bluish skin
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    If the Grave Robber and the Warlord are separate characters then Driver is the Grave Robber. The Grave Robber is the Dragon to the Warlord's big bad. Driver isn't the main villain, he's subservient to someone(thing) else. I don't think it's MvS, although I've always liked MvS as Driver's former master even if that no longer meshes with the current rumors.

    I like Tid's point about the Grave Robber being an early version of the warlord. I don't think we have two masked villains, just Driver is masked.
     
  7. Get In Gear

    Get In Gear Rebel Official

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    I think the grave robber will simply be Luke's recurring nightmare while he is in exile.
    It is the only thing that makes sense to me that ties all the contradicting leaks together at this stage.

    Let me break that down.

    1) Vader is in the movie, sort of - Check. Luke is haunted by this vision of himself succumbing to his father's fate - more machine than man, twisted and evil. We see Luke on the bridge of a Star Destroyer, he has taken his father's place, pondering his fate as he holds the shattered helmet of Darth Vader and reflects. This is why we doubt his motives. Is he really going to be this guy when he appears for real? Are these things he has done, are they flashbacks to real events? It's almost as if he is permanently living in the nightmare world from the cave on Dagobah. He daren't come out of hiding, because he is afraid of what he takes with him. What if Luke has become so powerful, everywhere he goes is, in essence, like his experience from the cave? Is he shaping the reality of others, or is it all just in his head?

    2) Luke is a cyborg - Check. In his nightmares, he is. Luke is in exile. We don't see much of him, but when we do he slips into these visions involving his friends, his past, his future... and in them all he is the one thing he fears becoming the most. There may even be a little "dream" narrative that we keep rejoining briefly at points in this movie. Key thing here is someone who isn't that interested in Star Wars, who knows someone who works for marketing at Kraft may have been privvy to descriptions of this kind of scenario. They may have been told that Luke is in hiding and doesn't come out until the end. And when they passed this info on to a third party, they may have presumed the cyborg Luke that they have heard so much about is what we actually see at then end. And then, if marketing is the connection, the most striking imagery is what is going to be used in the marketing. Even if it is cheekily misleading in a sense.

    3) Luke is not a cyborg - Check. Well. No more than he has ever been since Bespin. But in his mind, he is becoming his father. And we see that play out onscreen.

    4) Luke is evil/good. Huh, which is it? - Check. We don't know which way this is going to go. He's fighting his own demons, which make his motives when he steps out into the real world unclear. Perhaps to him as well as the audience.


    I'm not a big fan of dream sequences and flashbacks, at least I certainly don't see them fitting into the Star Wars style. But I keep coming back to the cave on Dagobah, and using that as a yardstick for how it might work.
    Sylar did say that was important. ;)
    The only thing that doesn't quite fit is the "Phantom of the Opera" pic, I suppose. But then, if there was some kind of dream narrative unfolding, this could simply be part of that.
    Dunno, kind of makes sense to me as one theory as to why the various rumours and artwork seems so conflicted at this point...
     
    #307 Get In Gear, Nov 10, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2014
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  8. Willybobo

    Willybobo BEES!

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    The comments section under the story by Viral detailing the latest rumors had some juicy discussion. Below you'll find two of the best comments IMHO which we should examine, and look for holes in. The interpretation of the Hamlet graverobber artwork and where it may fit is particularly awesome IMHO:



    Luke will not die. It’s the other way around.
    There is a fight at the end. Luke wants to kill Driver and Han steps in. Luke then kills Han which brings Luke back to his sanity. Han with his dying words begs Luke to let Driver live, to trust him that everything will be alright and the he won’t succumb to the Dark Side.
    Luke trust Han and does not kill Driver – which will be a big mistake as we will see in Episodes VIII and IX.

    Another thing:
    The artwork with the cyborg holding Vaders helmet in his hands is pretty accurate. This is the end of the movie. Luke beats Driver up pretty good in the fight. He has a scar in his face and his right hand will be cut off by Luke. After the funeral of Han, Driver will be in Lukes quarters, wearing a mask and a robe and he holds Vaders helmet in his cyborg hand, eyes blazing…

    Anonymous November 07, 2014 at 15:34 PM
    “The force awakens” (in a bad way) in Han & Leia’s son Adam Driver after he sees Luke kill daddy Han. You know this to be true… :)

    Like0 Reply ↓Report comment

    --------------------------------

    Pestelous November 07, 2014 at 18:54 PM
    As I am sitting here at work I have been reading this and still wondering, well where does Ridley and Boyega fit into all of this?

    If Luke is in hiding and Ridley and Boyega are supposed to be the next generation of heroes against Adam Drivers antagonist character then when would Luke have time to train Daisy or John if he comes out of hiding and dies so soon?

    There is no way that Luke will die in Ep7, he would need more than one episode with him training Daisy and John.

    Here is my thought process on Ep7.

    We are introduced to Driver’s character, based on pictures we have seen he is a pilot for the Alliance against the Empire. (GCW is still ongoing.) And son of Han and Leia. Most likely a squadron leader or officer in order to set up his credability and respect from other members of the alliance.

    Han is a General or Admiral (whatever you want to call it) and thus piloting the SSD, while Leia is the Chief of State of the New Republic/Rebel Alliance.

    Luke IS in hiding, not sure if I buy the whole catalyst thing, but SOMETHING has changed him to draw him back from everyone. My guess would be on Dagobah in Yoda’s home where he communicates with Yodas force ghost or something along those lines.

    Boyega is an Imperial, Stormtrooper/chrome knight, something along those lines. Somehowe he runs off and meets up with Daisy at her At-AT home, something unites them to join the Alliance.

    Meanwhile Driver comes in contact with some Sith artifacts, or has had this obsession about his grandfather all along, but he hides it from his parents. Something Driver does triggers a disturbance in the force that Luke feels. Luke goes into the cave on Dagobah and sees a vision of his nephew turning into Darth Vader, or some Dark Side conflict issue, idk.

    Luke prepares to leave dagobah to stop his nephew from traveling down the dark side. Only to hit a brick wall with his family. (The insane Jedi story arc goes here)

    Somehow Luke meets Daisy and John through this and discovers her/their Force potential, but he refuses to train her/them for fear of not being able to stop them from turning to the darkside.

    The Empire then attacks the Alliance, starting a huge battle, Driver’s character does something dark, but allows the alliance a victory over the Empire.(Daisy and Boyega witness this act)

    Luke confronts Driver, only to have Han step in to protect his son. Han, being a General/Admiral orders guards to remove Luke, but an altercation ensues resulting in the DEATH OF HAN.

    Luke, is deeply saddened at what has happened, Driver orders him to be arrested, only to be rescued by Boyega and Ridley.

    As the three flee, Luke realizes that he won’t be able to stop Driver alone and agrees to train Daisy and John. This also leaves Drivers character as the commander of the Rebel Alliance/ New Republic forces, while he is now angered at his uncle, he commits himself to the teachings of the Sith in order to get revenge on Luke.

    Luke, Daisy, and John will be forced to turn to the Empire for help in order to stop Driver’s character. (This will be the grey line, with a Sith now in control of the Rebel Alliance/NR, and Luke needing the Empire’s help to stop Driver)

    My prediction for ep8 would be Leia’s death at the beginning of the movie with Driver taking complete control of the New Republic (or end of ep7, declaring himself ruler, and completely given over to the darkside, depending on how the events play out) and Luke’s death at the end of ep8.

    Ep9 would be Daisy vs Driver
     
    #308 Willybobo, Nov 10, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2014
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  9. Wayne

    Wayne Rebel Official

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    Maybe 'Grave Robber' wasn't a character, but the description of an action?
    So, the Warlord could be a character who at some point robs a grave?

    I like this idea. But what if Luke's dreams are so vivid that someone else has been tuning into them and assuming they are real. This would be like Leia hearing Luke's call for help in EpV, only they would be 'seeing' Luke's visions as he sees them. Is Luke powerful enough to project his fears/visions/dreams as a (Force) observable reality? That would be crazy!
     
  10. Rufus2fist

    Rufus2fist Rebelscum

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    what if it is the mirror image of Luke manifesting out there...
     
  11. TheFettMan

    TheFettMan Rebel General

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    I read over the last few posts.
    I don't feel the same BUT I think a few points may be true, shown in the film:
    Han may either be "retired" or the rebel fleet commander/high up. Some say the opening crawl will say he & Chewbacca will be "secret agents" :rolleyes: that I don't see.
    Luke may be in a exile for 10/20 years going insane or trying to cope with his growing force strengths. I don't think he will be evil or dark but he MAY be manipulated by other characters(Driver, Isaac, etc) or be double crossed.
    Id hope Luke doesn't kill Han or be in a situation where he is forced to kill his own relatives.
    If Isaac's character is indeed a bad guy(as Solo's son) or somehow becomes evil that may be resolved in EP8.
    I think too the Adam Driver character may be a arestocrat at the start but slowly join the alliance and become a pilot or fighter.
    It's feasible, there is a story, then the film jumps 10-20 years later. In a span of 30-32 years there's no mandate that it all be in real time or progress at a regular pace.
    The Allience may have been in charge, then a massive 9/11/2001 type event occurs & the plot picks up 20 years later.
     
  12. catfish

    catfish Rebelscum

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    I had thought from very early that Luke would kill Han...sets up some great father sacrifice things to the story.
     
  13. Wayne

    Wayne Rebel Official

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    If Han and Chewie are secret agents, maybe Luke and Han feign Han's death so he can go deeper under cover. What a way to please everyone: tear-jerking end to Ep VII (Han's death), big 'Hooray' moment at the end of Ep IX when a helmeted character we thought was a villain turns out to be Han working the bad guys from the inside.

    (Even more of a fan-boy's dream if the helmeted character concealing Han is Boba Fett! Oh, I went too far, didn't I, lol?)
     
  14. TIDMADT

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    Not for nothing, but if Luke has become all powerful, with flashes of past, present and future, and he is in seclusion not wanting to be found, wouldn't he foresee people coming to visit and just not be there that day?
     
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  15. Willybobo

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    My psychic has a doorbell.

    Maybe Luke wants to be found. Or he knows he will be whether he likes it or not. Someone recently quoted Campbell's bit about the hero's journey... How he/she will be called back into action so to speak. Luke is probably aware. Just can't fight fate.
     
  16. Wayne

    Wayne Rebel Official

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    Or maybe he just sees so much junk he doesn't know what's real and what's not?
     
  17. Ceruleanlord

    Ceruleanlord Rebel General

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    I'm starting to see Luke a lot like Palpatine was when he was the Emperor in ROTJ, all seeing, all knowing, and all sensing. Just very in touch with the Force, maybe even more than Palpatine was, just not so deceptive and conniving.
     
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  18. Lurk Skywalker

    Lurk Skywalker Rebelscum

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    G@brielGr@y tweeted the following clue:

    "I'll just throw this out there, what if TonyStark becomes his own Jarvis, downloads his conciousness and can continue to be Iron Man"

    A lurker theory: Luke sends out and telepathically controls the creepy looking "robot thing" that has a red lightsaber. This allows him to stay in a safe place but intercede when he has to.

    BOOM
     
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  19. Wayne

    Wayne Rebel Official

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    This has been posited before, by Tid I think. The 'remote cyborg' scenario. Possible, but not sure I like it.

    EDIT: Also, if you think about it from a certain POV, G@brielGr@y could be seen as describing a Force Ghost. In a way, Obi-Wan downloaded himself as a Jarvis when he allowed Vader to strike him down and was able to guide Luke through his paces as the new 'hot Jedi on the block' as a result. Just a thought....
     
  20. Lurk Skywalker

    Lurk Skywalker Rebelscum

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    G@be has a record of giving good clues. I am wondering why this bit of info is not being incorporated in more plot theories.

    It would also establish that a force user can control a "remote cyborg" entity. Rebels is establishing that a jedi that has died can have their spirit trapped in our plane of existence. In a movie or two we could see the full blown return of Vader inhabiting a similar "remote cyborg" that simply wears the full vader suit.

    If Luke dies he can continue to train Daisy using this method. Bounce back and forth from force ghost to cyborg with a light saber.
     
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