SPECULATION Luke, Yoda and the Gray Jedi of the Old Republic!

That's a Skywalker problem, not a Jedi problem. That's why I think the Skywalker family will end, not the Jedi. They're too powerful. And thus far we haven't seen a fully functioning Jedi Order and Republic. We've seen them being corrupted. We've seen them fall. But we haven't seen them be rebuilt - which is what Lucas intended for the ST.

 

You're assuming that exactly the same kind of Jedi Order will be created. I for one think Luke's order would be one of fewer numbers that travel the galaxy rather than a large group living in literal ivory towers.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 23, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 23, 2017 ---

Daisy Ridley: “The way it ends with what Luke says… Everybody was like, ‘Oh my gosh, what’s going on?'”

John Boyega (Finn): “I had not seen that line that Mark Hamill says in the trailer, I did not see that in the script… What the hell does that mean? That’s blasphemy. ‘Jedi to end.’ Jedis don’t end.”

Mark Hamill (Luke Skywalker): “It’s funny. They play tricks on us a lot, where they withhold a line or two to preserve the surprise.”

Rian Johnson (writer-director): “We don’t tell everybody everything. We don’t give away our secrets willy-nilly. You think I trust John Boyega with secrets? … It’s not the whole story with what’s going on with Luke, but it’s a very important part of it.”

 

Well if Rey becomes a Jedi then the Jedi continue. The concern is not rebuilding a big Jedi order. Its about continuing the line of good force users bearing the name Jedi. My concern is that they dump the jedi as "good." I don't think they will but that's where the passion on the issue is coming from. Its not about seeing Skywalkers School of Forcecraft and Sabrey.

I would prefer the tragic loss of all Jedi to hearing that Luke trains Rey as "super cool new force users."

 

I like this kind of idea and would love to see this and transformative justice type concepts explored by Luke and any possible trainees. I seem to remember one of the legends books had a cantina like scene where a Jedi (Luke?) was recognised as such and called to settle a dispute between two patrons.

I always liked the idea of Jedi as impartial mediators or peace envoys. Not Jedi as ambassadors or negotiators for one party like TPM - (it's too much like the pseudo-nonpartisanship of the courts here where the prosecution, registrars, judges etc all work for "The Crown" but pretend to an impartiality).

Instead Jedi could be seen as the judges many old jurists speak of - individuals with a reputation for wisdom and kind-heartedness who may or may not adhere to a received code, but who's only authority in the matter comes from their being selected by opposing groups who have freely agreed to stand by their arbitration.

These neo-Jedi's dedication to sabre skills and self defence would still make them worthy adversaries to anyone attacking others (should they choose the use of force) which leaves plenty of room for "grey" areas and corrupting narratives to be explored.

The teaser narrative does seems to paint Rey as being trained as either a new Jedi or some kind of Force assassin (similar perhaps to Luke training)! I've a feeling RJ won't disappoint the Jedi lovers of old or those wanting something different with whatever narrative he's chosen to go with. *fingers-crossed*

 

The idea of Jedi is the heart of the moral of the saga abandon that as the idea its a cheap gimic announcing the death of any coherent underpinning to the story. They might still entertaining stories but they will lose the magic.

 

I tend to agree: but I'd say the Skywalker line may have to end because it exists... because of Anakin, because of the Chosen One.
I mean, if at the end of the ST the task is complete, then the Will of the Force may not have any further need of the blood of the Chosen One.
The Chosen One is the exception: the extraordinary tool for extraordinary times. So is his lineage.

 

I just don't see why "last" has to mean "final ever". The fact that Johnson actually says it is "singular" suggests that it simply means Luke is the last Jedi - not that he is the last of the Jedi order that will exist. We have been told this film will be Luke-centric. Clearly, they are not going to give away the plot of the film in the trailer - what Luke says is more about where he starts the film, rather than where he finishes up.

And it isn't about wanting the same old Jedi stories - it is about not diminishing that which has come before. It's about not trashing the story of the PT and OT by suggesting the Jedi had it wrong and that the achievements in the OT meant nothing. And it's about not muddying the moral story of the saga. Just because individual Jedi made mistakes, it doesn't mean the Jedi way is wrong. The Jedi way is about listening to the will of the force, being compassionate and selfless - if that is wrong then I don't get the lesson these films are trying to teach our children.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 24, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 24, 2017 ---

I personally don't believe in the idea of the chosen one being part of a Force master plan. I see him as a reaction to the growing imbalance or as a direct creation of the Sith. I mean if the Force is able to intervene in such a sentient way, why not just kill the midichlorians within the Sith who are causing the problems?! However, I think we're essentially saying the same thing but coming at it from two different directions. The Skywalker's are just too powerful. If a fully powerful, fully limbed Skywalker was to turn to the Dark Side and take over the galaxy, essentially their power could be limitless. They'd be next to impossible to destroy.

And just from a story point of view, it would be very difficult to tell an original story about a Skywalker child when you have Darth Vader, Luke Skywalker and now Kylo Ren looming over the family tale.

 

Or is Luke always been gray: he now has to pick as side: "by the resolving of gray".

 

That whole quote is about how The Jedi, THE JEDI, THE JEDI resolve the grey.

 

So......? What is your point.

 

That the Jedi will not end nor are they "in the grey". They resolve the grey.
Luke just feels he has failed and his family is tainted. He thinks if he (and only he can) continues the Jedi, it won't bring balance/peace etc.
However, Rey will show him that he can make a success of it. He can train her. He will train her. And they will both "resolve the grey" and do what is right!

 

I just think the title is simply referring to Luke. At the time the movie starts he is the last Jedi. Luke clearly looms large over this movie and I think the title indicates that. That doesn't mean however that because he is the last Jedi now that it will stay that way.

Full disclosure... I don't want the Jedi to end (I'm all for Luke reforming the Jedi and helping the Order evolve) so my statement is also part wishful thinking!

 

Some great points here. My guess is Luke realizes there is more to the knowledge of the Force than the teachings of the PT Jedi. Yoda realizes this (too late) in RotS and becomes a hermit. So when he teaches Luke, he may have new ideas, but he still as 800 years of 'old' Jedi teachings.

To back this up:


This is a multiple twitter rant from Pablo Hidalgo.
From point 9 going on it gets interesting.

"11/ The prequel Jedi have systemized their methods at the expense of spirituality and intuition. They are more 'Order' than 'Jedi.' "

"13/ But there's more to the Force than just Jedi/Sith. There's more to potential than midis. Just like there's more to genius than grades."

So in september of 2016, Pablo already went Luke with his "it's so much bigger".

Just gonna leave this here..

 

This goes so way to confirm that the Jedi changed since the PT and got it right thereafter. Other than that it tells us what we should really already know - anyone can use the Force, the balance isn't about numbers of Jedi and Sith and that Luke acted as a true Jedi when he threw down his saber in ROTJ.

 

Lucas intended them to be rebuilt, with Luke, and Anakin's grandchildren... so you can't really tie in ending Skywalkers with GL.

 

Why not? Lucas wanted the Jedi and Republic rebuilt - the Skywalker's can help in this but doesn't mean that they have to live on beyond achieving this.