SPECULATION Luke, Yoda and the Gray Jedi of the Old Republic!

When did they abandon their duties as Jedi? If they did that, they'd have slunk off and started a new life somewhere. Instead, they hid from the Empire, learned about the Force and waited for Luke to come to them so they could train him.

No - Luke wouldn't become a Jedi until he had defeated the Dark Side within himself.

Yoda and Kenobi didn't get cut from the Jedi. They continued the Jedi - they just changed the tactics.

You're not a Jedi because you're off fighting Sith. You're a Jedi as long as you serve the will of the Force and reject the Dark Side. Yoda and Kenobi stayed true to the Jedi ways. They were Jedi masters. Ahhhh, why am I having to argue this?!?!?!?!

They're not going to give away the plot of the entire film. They're showing us where Luke's head is at in the beginning of the film. Haunted. A failure. Defeated. But as Snoke fears, the last Jedi will return and the new Jedi will rise. Still Jedi - continuing with the analogy - simply under new management and with different tactics. But Jedi nevertheless.

And again - what is this "other team" - a team that uses the light and the dark? That makes no sense. It's a crappy message to teach kids. And it contradicts and diminishes everything that has come before.

Maybe. But they'd still be Jedi.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 26, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 26, 2017 ---

Exactly this.
Snoke explicitly says what people are saying cannot happen!

Luke IS THE LAST JEDI. If found THE NEW JEDI WILL RISE.
So Luke can be the last Jedi and more Jedi can rise after him.

It's there on screen.

 

Very solid analogy!

That's why I'm hoping for a Jedi reformation!

 

I always got the impression that Yoda felt the force telling him to go onto exile. Obi-Wan chose to watch over Luke suggesting that is nothing is demonstrably false, Luke went on to defeat the empire.

I love it when the Jedi act they aren't spiritual enough but when they seek solice, or a mission of quiet purpose they are doing nothing.

 

Are you being serious here? On the one hand you bemoan how wrong the Jedi were in the PT, then when they go and change their ways you accuse them of not acting as Jedi?! The whole point within the narrative was that they went into exile to serve the Jedi and defeat the Sith. Had Yoda joined the Rebellion, he'd have achieved nothing. He'd probably just be killed. He had to wait for the Force to bring Luke to him so he could be trained as a Jedi.

There is no basis in the films for Luke needing to overcome the dark side before becoming a Jedi? M'kay...apart from Yoda telling Luke that he must confront Vader before becoming a Jedi and then Luke only becomes a Jedi once he confronts his father and rejects the dark side!

But yeah, apart from that, no basis at all...

But there is no evidence to suggest that Yoda, Kenobi, Luke are not Jedi. They didn't leave that team. They just changed the tactics. Is there another team they could join? Sure, but that wouldn't be any better than the Jedi. It would likely be worse as it would be a team that is placed more closely to the dark side.

This is fan fiction. Of course they were still Jedi.
"You will learn from Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me".
"Oh Jedi Master - Yoda, you seek Yoda!"
"For 800 years have I trained Jedi!"

Need I go on?

I said the trailer shows the first act - not the last. And the title works for both. Luke is the last jedi and at first wants the jedi to end. But then later he is simply the last jedi, the film is largely about him and it is about the hero learning from the last remaining jedi.

I'm not predicting what RJ will do. I think he will do this - but if he doesn't, the point is, it will be a joke. It would diminish and contradict everything Lucas has created.

Then you'd just be changing the name of the order for the hell of it. You're either devoted to the will of the Force (light side) or you are not. If not, then you're allowing the dark side in to some extent. The Jedi way is the pinnacle of the light side. Individual Jedi may have got things wrong. The tactics of the Jedi may have been poor at some stage. But the Jedi way, in its true form, is right and just. Tell me, what would the difference be between a Knight of the Whill and a Jedi?

Point is - Snoke calls Luke the last Jedi and speaks of new Jedi, thus "last Jedi" doesn't mean "last ever/no more thereafter".

 

FFS it was established that the last jedi is referring to Luke. Doesn't mean there can't be any in future. What's a fact today may not be fact tomorrow. It's not that hard of a concept.
Of course all the titles still stand today. They have all until now referred to an action or a certain someone.

The Phantom Menace = Sidious
Attack of the clones = an action
Revenge of the Sith = an action
A new hope = Luke
The Empire Strikes Back = an action
Return of the Jedi = an action
The Force Awakens -= an action
The last jedi = Luke

 

What did they change from the PT? Did you not see the extracts from the ROTS novel I posted? Instead of continuing to fight they waited for the living force to bring Luke to them. Instead of relying upon the cosmic force and their great power, they listened more closely to the living force. They realised they had become arrogant. They realised that the Sith had evolved but they had not. So they adapted and then waited for Luke so they could train him. They learned about the Force. Kenobi learned how to join the Force and retain his identity - all for the end goal of defeating the Sith.

They were still Jedi and they had a plan.

Wow. Of course he would've turned. That was the whole point of the scene!!!

The hope was he would defeat the Sith. To defeat the Sith he'd need to reject the Dark Side. To reject the Dark Side he needed to confront Vader. For some time he was failing but he managed to do what was right in the end. The point with Luke is that it would've been better for him to die than turn bad. Hence why he had to pass the test first and become a Jedi. Only then could he defeat the Sith.

Last time I checked, Kenobi faced Vader and allowed him to strike him down.
And you'd had to be a dumbass Jedi if you didn't listen to the Force, didn't wait to train Luke and rushed off to fight a battle you cannot win.

So were the Jedi really Jedi before the Sith emerged again? It's not being at war that makes you a Jedi.

Kenobi was doing exactly what a Jedi should do - waiting for the Force to speak to him and show him and tell him when to act.

Of course the title makes sense. It's just referring to Luke being the last jedi - not that he will be the last jedi ever.

The Sith are different because their ideology is more specific. The Jedi ideology is to maintain balance in the Force. It is to face the Dark Side in all its forms. It's to be wholly compassionate and selfless. You can't go beyond that. But with the Dark Side you could be hell bent on attaining great wealth or being a nihilistic destructive Force, or wanting to control the galaxy.

You're assuming that The Last Jedi is a verb and not a noun. You're saying that we're going to witness an event - the end of the Jedi. I'm saying that it simply refers to the last Jedi in the galaxy - Luke. That is what he is. He was described as being the last Jedi in ROTJ and TFA. That never meant there couldn't be more Jedi after him. Snoke said as much. Therefore, if there are more Jedi in IX the title will continue to make sense as it was just referring to Luke Skywalker being the last Jedi at that point.

 

Where as in the PT they didn't trust in the Force and rushed in, acting in an un-Jedi way. Now they act like Jedi and you ay they're bing cowards and not true jedi. Strange.

You've missed the point. Yes, the Jedi likely wanted Luke to destroy the Sith but the most important thing was that Luke didn't turn else "matters would be worse". In order for Luke to destroy the Sith, however he does it, he'd have to become a Jedi first. The way it turns out, is that Luke couldn't defeat the Sith in combat. He was getting too angry. He was failing. But then he let go of his anger and threw down his weapon. At that point he became a Jedi. At that point he passed the test. He had faced his father (and his fears) and had rejected the Dark Side - he became a Jedi.

I don't understand what your point is. Yes - Kenobi was listening to the Force. Being guided by it. That's what a Jedi does.

Dad: "What movie are you watching?"
Kid: "The Last Jedi"
Dad: "But aren't the new movies about the Jedi?"
Kid: "Yes, but that movie was about Luke, the last Jedi at the time"
Dad: "Oh right so he was just the last Jedi left but now there are more?"
Kid: "Well duh. Jeez Dad, sometimes I wonder who is the child and who is the parent"

 

You did say: Umm, for like 20 years they did slink off and do nothing. They let the Empire continue to gain power. Obi-Wan thought he was protecting the Chosen One while chilling in his little hutt for 20 years. Yoda practiced his Dagobah culinary skills and stand up comedy. Yoda even said "only a fully trained Jedi knight, with the force as his ally, will conquer Vader and his Emperor". Yoda didn't have to go into exile. He could have joined the Rebellion and done something.

That implies a degree of cowardice or at the least is a slight against their reasoning for going into exile.

So give me an example of how she will be trained... What will be this new order's ideology, mantra, doctrines etc?

 

So you think Disney is going to spend billions to throw away the idea of jedi, the essence of the story of Star Wars? And blast on everything that Lucas created? Better yet, Kathleen Kennedy would do that?

 

Yet no one has provided one reasonable idea of what this new order would be like...can you not even try?

 

Rule of One...

 

The title "Last Jedi." Has been used prior to the title, as has been mentioned in this thread. Luke was told by Yoda, "When I am gone the Last of the Jedi you will be. You must pass on what you have learned." Here Yoda lets us know he is the last but encourages him to teach others. In context teaching others will be more Jedi. His title of Last is temporary.

Snoke refers to Luke as the last but if found new Jedi will rise. So again his status as last is a temporary state..

Also while the Jedi made some mistakes they level of how corrupt, dogmatic, and wrong is way over blown by some. The films never spell this out. it is assumed by viewers so I think both those who think of the PT jedi not so bad and those who think they are so fundamentally flawed that the name should be abandoned are working partially from confirmation bias.

 

And Yoda.

When JJ refused to be involved with the ST. KK asked him "Who is Luke Skywalker." Answering that question is why he changed his mind. If you look at who Luke was presented in victory, saving his father was the declaration that he is a Jedi. Moving forward what was assumed to be Luke's mission, "to pass on what he had learned." We know he did this but at least one of his students became a monster. Thus he is reluctant. Back to the question, "who is Luke Skywalker." I find it really hard to swallow that the answer is the guy who axed the legacy of Yoda and Obi-Wan. "Yeah I got in this cult awhile back sure it was real and lead to saving the galaxy but now I learned that they used to have some silly rules and oh that hero on mine Obi-Wan really saw the Old Republic through rose colored glasses. Defend democracy give it a rest it was imperfect."