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SPECULATION Luke's "First Jedi Temple" - JJ Abrams' nod to Terrence Malick's "The New World"?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens' started by timonder, Feb 8, 2016.

  1. timonder

    timonder Clone Commander

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    In an interview, JJ Abrams has cited Terrence Malick as an important inspiration for The Force Awakens:


    My guess is that he was heavily inspired by Malick's masterpiece The New World, not only in terms of cinematography but also regarding the movie's theme: Captain John Smith and his elusive quest for his "Indies", which turn out to be a relationship rather than a physical place:


    In short, the emotional climax in The New World is the poignant last meeting between Captain John Smith and his estranged "lover" Pocahontas/Rebecca, the woman he met on his travels and left again to continue his quest:

    Rebecca: Did you find your Indies, John? You shall.
    Cpt. John Smith: I may have sailed past them.

    I believe that in TFA, Abrams is trying to make that same point about the elusive "first Jedi temple" Luke is supposedly looking for when he disappears from the scene. Among rumours and stories about what happened to him, the belief held by "the people who knew him best", according to Han, is that Luke "went looking for the first Jedi temple." So if that "temple" is a relationship Luke knows to have had, and lost, this would make his disappearance far more tragic than him simply searching for some architectural landmark while the world goes to pieces around him. After all, the temple is never referred to again in the movie.

    Harrison Ford has explained that Han's "Chewie, we're home" line is about more than a place as well:


    I believe that Luke went to Ahch-to not to go into exile but to honour the memory of the only time he was truly happy and inspired: when he lived on this island with his wife and daughter.

    This would also tie in nicely with this post: The source of the Dark Side
    If the first Jedi temple turns out to be a concept, rather than an energy source for the Jedi, then the Light Side and the Dark Side could indeed be "born" in the same temple, namely the nuclear family. And the physical location of Snoke wouldn't matter.

    What do you think?
     
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  2. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Very interesting. I don't buy the whole Luke's family concept but I don't think that needs to be the case for this still to be about Luke searching for a relationship rather than a physical place. I think that could be the case on a metaphorical level. I was just writing in another thread how Luke seeks out the Temple for knowledge but that perhaps there was nothing there. I had it in mind that what's there instead, eventually, is Rey. This is, by way of destiny, the Force, or happenstance the relationship that Luke needs.

    The post I refer to above (https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/lukes-great-weakness.8952/) is about Luke not having the knowledge to restore the Jedi Order. And that he seeks this knowledge on Ahch-To. But maybe what Luke doesn't have enough of, especially after the Jedi Massacre, is the faith in himself to rebuild the Jedi Order? But Rey coming along and becoming his pupil can restore that faith.

    And can you clarify this for me:

    "This would also tie in nicely with this post: The source of the Dark Side
    If the first Jedi temple turns out to be a concept, rather than an energy source for the Jedi, then the Light Side and the Dark Side could indeed be "born" in the same temple, namely the nuclear family. And the physical location of Snoke wouldn't matter."


    Not sure I follow...
     
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  3. Fooled Trooper

    Fooled Trooper Rebel Official

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    The idea of using the Force in different ways was "born" at the same place...The source is nothing physical but metaphysical.
     
  4. timonder

    timonder Clone Commander

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    Okay. I believe that the dark side of the Force is simply human conflict. So if the very first Jedi founded a community that was based on harmonious relationships between people, and they also happened to build a temple, then the same community could give rise to conflict as well. So wherever there is people meeting, there is potential for either harmony or conflict. Which is why the First Order is after the same thing.
     
  5. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    I'm sorry, I think I must be being very slow today! What are you actually suggesting the FO are after? I'd agree that the Dark Side is more of an internal thing (but that it does create an external Dark Side with the bad energy that beings create) and I could also see how the First Jedi Temple saw rise to both light and dark practitioners. However, I am not sure I understand the relevance. So what if that happened there - what is the relevance? Are you saying the FO are seeking out the place for some reason or that they built their own order on the notion of light and dark causing conflict?

    Again, I am probably missing something but if you could humour me I'd appreciate it!
     
  6. timonder

    timonder Clone Commander

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    I think the FO seek out conflict. I don't get the impression that anybody in the FO is actually force-sensitive, except for the odd one out, Kylo Ren. Snoke on the other hand can possibly only survive as long as the FO and the Resistance are at war. He draws dark side energy from conflict situations in the universe, so he probably helped establish the FO.
     
  7. master_shaitan

    master_shaitan Jedi General

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    Ah, I am with you. Speculated on this myself. It was almost as if Snoke wasn't that fussed by the destruction of the Star Killer base - it served its purpose perhaps in igniting the conflict? I definitely agree with the assertion that Snoke wants there to be conflict. The Dark Side in my opinion keeps him alive.
     
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  8. timonder

    timonder Clone Commander

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    I like the way they define the relationship between Luke and Rey in terms of having the same interests and ideals and fighting for the same cause, before they even meet. We already feel that they are good for each other, just because. Thus, the father-daughter reveal will just be an added bonus.

    I've read your thread about Luke's greatest weakness. You believe is has to do with knowledge. I don't think the same way. I feel that Luke's greatest weakness has been his obligation towards friends and family, which severely restricts his agency. There is nothing omnipotent about Luke if he constantly has to bail people out, at a great cost to himself.

    In ANH, he is stuck at his uncle's farm because Owen claims he can't manage on his own. In ESB, he first has to go on a mission to Dagobah because Ben told him so, and then he has to rescue Han and Leia who gotten themselves into a right mess. And in ROTJ he has to redeem his father.

    I mean the guy hasn't gone on a single date since he left Tatooine, only to learn that he woman he loves has been his sister all along and she knew! And while everyone else is celebrating after the battle of Endor, he's standing apart from the others wondering where his youth went while things worked out just dandy for Han and Leia and Vader.

    So I believe Luke's quest for the "first Jedi temple" was a quest for an existence that allowed him to have fun as a Jedi. What made people sign up for this belief? And he ended up meeting an incredible woman with the same ideals, and they settled down on this planet where there is no sand, and they have a baby, and it's just - nice.

    Until he gets an emergency call from his sister who has this really difficult boy, and Luke feels obliged to train him with his other Jedi students just because of this uncle-nephew obligation, and the boy destroys everything Luke has built.

    The snake (Snoke) in paradise.

    That is the knowledge Luke has gained by the time he goes into hiding: that he has to choose between protecting what is good in and for him, and getting involved in other people's conflicts all the time only because they are unwilling to learn to sort them out themselves.

    I believe his retirement to Ahch-to was a deliberate choice. He went home, even if the nest was empty, and refused to get involved in any more conflict.
     
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