Luke's Great Weakness

Since talk of the ST began, many people have claimed that Luke Skywalker should be uber powerful. That considering his bloodline and with 30 years passing since he became a Jedi, he should be almost Demi-God like. I have personally disagreed with this, largely because I think it diminishes the drama if the protagonist is essentially unbeatable. However, I think I'd go further - I'd say that Luke has struggled to become the power and beacon of light for the Jedi that was his destiny and responsibility.

When Luke and Yoda last spoke, Yoda told Luke to pass on what he had learned, that he was the last Jedi and I imagine if Luke is able to do this it would mean that You would think he was successful in defeating the Emperor. That there was no threat beyond that Luke needed to worry about too much.

Anyway, after The Emperor is defeated Luke has to go about resurrecting the Jedi Order. He has to improve his own abilities as a Jedi. But the problem Luke has is that the Empire destroyed all evidence that the Jedi even existed. They essentially burned down the archives, removing all the knowledge that was passed on through generations of Jedi within their order. This is why in the new canon, Luke is aided by Lor San Tekka in exploring the galaxy looking for Jedi Lore - knowledge. Knowledge that will enable him to be the Jedi Master he needs to be.

However, unfortunately for Luke, Snoke comes on to the scene. And in spite of Snoke's own weaknesses (more on this later), he is steeped in Dark Side knowledge and poses a huge threat to Luke. In fact, he manages through the KoR to destroy Luke's Jedi Order before it even gets off the ground. Luke undoubtedly saw the imposing threat of Snoke and the FO (along with the KoR) and realised that he desperately needed knowledge to counter that of Snoke.

This is why I think Luke was seeking out Ahch-To. And he was seeking it out before the Jedi massacre occured of course. I think Luke went there hoping to find the extra knowledge he needs to restore the Jedi Order. Maybe when he gets there, there is none. There isn't the information he seeks (and he must decide whether to go on anyway when Rey turns up). Maybe he thinks that Jedi from the PT may have taken refuge there from the Empire (it was after all implied to be a potential sanctuary for Jedi in the novelisation of TFA). Either way, it highlights why the Jedi (and Sith) Order mattered. It was about shared knowledge, being passed down.

So Luke needs knowledge. He already has the power, the physical might but not the knowledge.

And then we have Snoke. Literally the opposite of Luke in every way. Evil. Physically weakened. But steeped in Dark Side knowledge. There are two important points that come from this. Firstly that Snoke's power is his knowledge. With this he has managed to achieve his goals thus far (to a point) without getting his hands dirty, much like Darth Sidious. He has turned Ben Solo with the promise of the power he desires. But Snoke requires physical strength as he knows until he has that both his apprentice(s) and Luke will be a threat to him. We know Snoke is vulnerable - we have been told and we can see it with our own eyes. Snoke is using his knowledge to try and regain his physical prowess. At this moment in time, he is ill-prepared to face Luke. This then ties in with Luke being on Ahch-To, the map to it and why Snoke fears his return. Snoke realises that Luke has potentially found the place where Luke could gain the knowledge he so desperately requires to end Snoke and the FO permanently.

Secondly, as I said earlier, the Jedi and Sith Order existed largely as a way of passing down knowledge from master to apprentice over generations, improving upon that knowledge and keeping their Orders strong. It appears that both Orders were exclusive of this knowledge. Had there been other groups of Force users with acquired Force knowledge we would surely have known about it? Therefore, only the Sith and the Jedi were steeped in the knowledge of the Force. So how did Snoke become so knowledgeable in the Dark Side?

If it is suggested that Snoke was never a part of the Sith Order (I discard Jedi here as they wouldn't teach Dark Side knowledge) then it negates the reason for these orders really existing, or existing on their own exclusively or in fact the need for Luke to seek out knowledge from the past (which he has been doing) - for if Snoke just learned all this stuff himself, why couldn't super powerfully Force connected Luke? It must be a fact that knowledge of the Force is hard to find, hard to attain. There must be more to it then just closing your eyes and counting to ten.

This to me tells us that Snoke was once a Sith and for whatever reason, created a new Order outside of the Sith once they were destroyed. This is where he gets his knowledge from. But the thing with the Sith is that they were all destroyed. That's how their Order works itself. The master kills the apprentice (or vice verser) and so on. The only two remaining Sith were Vader and Sidious and they destroyed each other. However, it is here that all roads lead to Darth Plagueis in my view. He is the only Sith we have heard of who learned how to save people from death. So really he is perhaps the one Sith to have cheated death himself (after all, had another Sith achieved that in the past, that knowledge would likely have been passed down and/or that Sith would've attempted a power play sooner).

So this way, Plagueis get's mortally wounded by Sidious but somehow manages to survive. Exiles himself in the Unknown Regions. Furthers his knowledge but keeps himself hidden. Keeps himself alive and slowly regains his strength through the Dark Side. But then balance is restored and this weakens him again. He calls himself Snoke, forms the KoR (making them Sith devotees, dependent on his power thus less of a threat to him) and takes command of the FO who were born from the ashes of the Empire that retreated to the Unknown Regions. From there, he began his plan to take over the galaxy and once again put the Force out of balance. He turns Vader's grandchild (his own potential great-grandchild of sorts) and uses him to take down Luke's Order - the only real threat to him. He keeps Kylo on a short leash, keeping enough knowledge back from him to so he continues in the same vein and isn't a threat to Snoke. But then Luke disappears and is close to getting the knowledge required to defeat Snoke and then comes The Force Awakens....

P.s. I didn't post this in a Plagueis/Snoke/Luke thread because I feel it is more about Luke's lack of knowledge and the impact on numerous other elements.

 

I'm not well versed in these other Orders as they are all part of the retconning nonsense that is CW's & Rebels. But yes they are canon so one must take them on board. I guess. It just strikes me as odd though. I mean those that use the Dark Side do so out of greed. And those who are greedy always want more. That's what Lucas' Star Wars films tell us. So if these other orders do exist why do they do nothing? Why don't we ever see them in the movies? It's weird.

Just briefly, Qui Gon would've stood on the shoulders of others to acquire that knowledge. That's my point about Jedi passing down knowledge and then that being built upon. Also, Snoke is described to be unprepared for Luke and looks badly injured so that alongside the fact that he didn't impact upon the balance of the Force, suggests he has been weakened and trying to regain his power, to me at least...

I'll have to read up on these Nightsisters and co to provide a proper response.

 

Shouldn't that read:

Snoke WOULD need Kylo...?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 8, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 8, 2016 ---

I mean this is ridiculous:

The Nightsisters are a coven of witches that lived on the mysterious world of Dathomir. The sisters ruled unchallenged, gifted with the power to wield dark magicks. The men of Dathomir, the Nightbrothers, lived apart from the witches, but were subservient to their whims. Despite their power, the Nightsisters avoided the conflict of the Republic and Sith, content to pursue their own matters. The Jedi gave them a wide berth, for they remain focused on matters on Dathomir.

So the Jedi essentially allowed the practice of Dark Side power? Even though this could be used by the Sith? Or bring about a Dark Side user? This is why I can't stand the Clone Wars etc. It just makes stuff up to try and create a story and ends up contradicting the fims.

 

I wasn't having a go. I thought the original type you referred to was the "You" at the end. Just making sure

 

Yeah, evil folk exist in many forms. They all want power of some kind. But in Star Wars it's different - because using the Dark Side leads you to wanting to rule the galaxy. Dark Side practitioners want absolute power. And everything under that umbrella. I just can't buy this idea that there were beings using the Dark Side but were happy to leave it at that and not go further. The only way this would make sense is if they realised they weren't ever powerful enough to do anything. But then that would render Snoke a bit of a joke. And like I say, for the Jedi to allow the use of the Dark Side like this (especially considering how the Nightsisters are shown to aid the Sith and other corrupt folk) is a major leap.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 8, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 8, 2016 ---

Is this Star Wars Episode VIII: Zoolander Jedi? Where Luke has to perfect Ice Steel to defeat Snoke's ultimate posing?

Use a keyboard

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 8, 2016 ---

Indeed. But then the US/West is corrupt in making these deals. The Jedi are not. They wouldn't do a deal with the Dark Side. They would conquer it wherever it emerges.

 

Thanks.

Just briefly I always imagined am that Force ghosts can't hang around in the physical realm forever. My take was that after balance was restored, Yoda and co left. I think if Anakin could hang about it diminishes his sacrifice and Luke's loss.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 8, 2016, Original Post Date: Feb 8, 2016 ---

Another thing that struck me today was that Snoke likely taught Kylo how to take thoughts from someone's mind. I'm wondering if Snoke can do the opposite - put thoughts in people's minds, a sort of Force illusion? This of course could link into how Kylo thought Vader spoke to him, showing him the dark side when it was in fact Snoke. This would then further imply that the Force ghost of Anakin is also a thing of the past...

 

You know, I always took this in the sense of how what it would mean in the real world. When a loved one dies, it's a typical thing to say - "Your mum/dad/partner will always be with you". That's how I saw that line. It was Ben essentially comforting Luke and saying that what Yoda taught him, the relationship they shared, lives on even if Yoda is gone. I might be wrong, but it strikes me as more poignant that way.