Luke's Lagacy: The Jedi Order Revolutionized or Resurrected?

for me, the hardest part of reconciling the narrative of Star Wars is that it's premised on balance, but in the OT the goal is to destroy the Dark side.

that's not actually balance.

the moral framework i grew up with is that we have equal capacity for good and evil. if there's no capacity for evil, how could ever even define anything as good?

so i think part of the ST will be about actual balance and that Luke is going to use Rey and Ben to accomplish this. not by having them fight to destroy or even subdue one another in a bid for ultimate control, but by forcing them to work together, using their complementary abilities to bring both peace and order in equal and just measures.

 

i guess you could say i'm thinking it's within the individual. i'm really talking about Force users aligning their FS to the need for balance that manifests in the galaxy.

so yeah: Rey doesn't need to conquer her Dark any more than Ben needs to conquer his Light.

i think they do remain guardians or shepherds of peace and order through justice by serving the will of the Force.
i have no idea what that actually looks like and i hope the credits roll before they try to show it to us because this kind of perfect balance gets political really fast. if there was a perfect formula for peace and order, we wouldn't be living in the world we live in today.

and maybe neither will the galaxy in Star Wars, but the idea is that the new Jedi (or whatever they may be called) will help keep check on the scales using both Light and Dark aspects of the Force.

 

The jedi code is good. It's not done to win a war. That's it. Especially against evil persons.

 

to be honest, i don't know enough about the nuances of the order to say how what i propose changes anything, sorry.

i'm coming at this, again, very very simplistically in terms of what would satisfy me personally with regard to my perception that the OT needs reconciliation on this point. and as i've said in other threads, i'm personally not that concerned with the past. the story is the future. whatever the Jedi were, it's really kind of up to Luke to define them now. we don't know how much of their actual legacy/dogma he's really received/embraced through his training and subsequent search for knowledge.

i voted revolutionize because i think things do have to change. but to try to discuss any finer points would probably just show my ignorance. hahaha.

 

It could be interesting, given recent rumors of Ewan McGregor / Obi-Wan Kenobi possibly appearing in Episode VIII, as well as Frank Oz/Yoda having recorded multiple unused lines in Episode VII, if there were a scene showing Luke consulting with either (or both) Obi-Wan and Yoda's spirits.

Perhaps they could even concede the limits of their experiences and underscore Luke's need to go further, if the Jedi are ever to be sustainable:

Yoda: No more answers have I for you.
Obi-Wan: I must agree. I fear any more advice from us could doom the Jedi to yet another end.
Yoda: To an uncharted place you must go. The Force is your guide now. And no better guide there is.
Obi-Wan: Had we only heeded to it more carefully.
Yoda: Wise you are now Luke, wiser than me. Go, and may the Force be with you.
Obi-Wan: Well, I know better than to warn you about the Dark Side, but be mindful of your padawan. Much loneliness I sense in her.
Luke: We're working on that. I know what I must do now. Thank you both.

Luke exits one cavern and enters another where Rey is meditating.

[scene could then continue as proposed in another thread]​

As for my other thoughts on the matters of revolution or resurrection of the Jedi Order, I believe my posts in the Luke's New Jedi Code thread relate directly to this thread and, hopefully in a helpful and informative way, represent my feelings on and understandings of the topic:

• my 1st post ("cycle of suffering") in Luke's New JEDI Code
• my 2nd post ("love and compassion") Luke's New JEDI Code
• my 3rd post ("wu wei") in Luke's New JEDI Code
• my 4th post ("choices") in Lukes New JEDI Code
  
• my 5th post ("resistance") in Luke's New JEDI Code
  
• my 6th post ("parallels") in Luke's New JEDI Code
  
• my 7th post ("emergence and interconnected") in Luke's New JEDI Code
  
• my 8th post ("connections and causality") in Luke's New JEDI Code
  
• my 9th post ("attachment") in Luke's New JEDI Code
  
• my 10th post ("love and happiness") in Luke's New JEDI Code
  
• my 11th post ("Jedi Like Water") in Luke's New JEDI Code

JediMasterRobert

 

For me, Luke and the heroes need to accomplish lasting peace at the same time as cleaning up the evils of Anakin's life.

The FO is the Empire resurrected. The KOR are the Sith reborn. The Empire came to be because of Anakin. So even though he brought balance, the evil he helped spread lives on. So what the new Jedi have to do is find a way of defeating the evil without providing it a means of rising again.

I believe this will be achieved through Finn emancipating the Stormtroopers and Rey redeeming Kylo. This will diminish Snoke's power to his oblivion.

So really the new Jedi will essentially need to be what they were in the PT but take on Luke's less rigid philosophies. What I mean by that is Luke was successful by not fighting and by not giving up on the light in Vader (despite Kenobi and Yoda's advice). So if the new Jedi can have both the dedication to the cause, the rejection of the Dark Side whilst finding a truly peaceful means of defeating evil then they will have lasting success.

I've said this many times before but the idea of balance isn't the equality of light and dark side users. It is the equality of good and evil in the universe. The Jedi maintain that balance. The Dark Siders erode it by empowering evil over good. So I don't buy this notion of grey Jedi being the answer. The Jedi must be virtuous and conquer the Dark Side within themselves so they are able to destroy those who seek to spread it everywhere.

 

But them, did he truly bring balance to the Force, because it had always been my impression that every being in the galaxy would have benefitted from it and a period of only 30 years is not enough, to merit the "weight" of the prophecy, IMHO.

Bringing balance as in abolishing both the petrified dogmas of Jedi and Sith would be the inevitable outcome.

Thus, Luke's mission can't possibly be "ressurection" but has to be "revolution". Possibly to reduce the new Jedi to a force that hunts down any resurrection of Sith belief and practice but other than that stay out of "mundane" affairs.

 

I believe so yes as Anakin stopped the Sith spreading evil throughout the galaxy. He brought down the Empire or at the very least, made it an even playing field for the rebellion to finish the job and the Republic to rise. Essentially he brought freedom, hope and peace back to the galaxy. That's balance. However, later on the FO rises from the ashes of the Empire. During this period of time the Empire weren't spreading evil - they were just reforming and preparing to attack later on. So Anakin brought balance, but his actions (and Sidious') from before the restoration echoed into the future thus the balance was once again eroded.

Is it a problem in regard to the "weight" of the prophesy - yes, somewhat. Before the ST was announced ROTJ was a fitting ending and that ending chimed with balance being restored. It seemed there would be a lasting peace. However, the ST was announced and so something had to be done. Do we say that the balance has just been eroded again or do we say it was never balanced in the first place? The former might diminish the chosen one story slightly but the latter would completely negate it and negate what happened in the PT. It would bring up many contradictions - the prophesy referred clearly to one person being born of the Force in some way who would bring balance. The PT was all about that. If they change that, they essentially make a mockery of the PT.

I have to disagree with this. The destruction of the jedi didn't help bring balance. The balance only started to be eroded when the Sith emerged and then took over.

Luke's first mission was to build a Jedi Order and for the galaxy to have a Republic that was virtuous rather than corrupt. However, both failed. Both failed to make the most of the balance. But that isn't all their fault. It was largely due to the resurrection of the Empire through the FO and of the Sith through the KoR. So for me the PT was about preventing the balance from being destroyed. The OT was about restoring the balance. And the ST will be about both bringing balance but finding a way of ensuring this great evil will not rise again. They have to make sure that nothing rises from the ashes of the FO and the KoR. That means having a truly peaceful ending.

The facts are that the Sith/KoR/Emprie/FO are the evil doers that bring disorder and unbalance the Force. Maz talks of this. LST says that there will not be balance without the Jedi. This is because it requires our new heroes and the Jedi to fight against the evil and destroy them. The Jedi themselves didn't create imbalance. They served the Force. They didn't act in selfish ways that would actively spread evil.

 

"Oh you're cold?!"



As for the rest of your post, I essentially agree with all of it.
When I say lasting peace I guess I am referring more to the end of the threat that came from the Sith and Empire (which the FO and KoR are an extension of) NOT an end to evil for all of time. New threats will rise. Well, as long as Disney wishes to milk Star Wars!

Serving the will of the Force primarily. Maintaining balance. Keeping the peace. Acting selflessly rather than selfishly.
(Sidenote: The Jedi did become too rigid, too arrogant and too entrenched in the politics of the Republic. This enabled the Sith to more easily destroy them and use them in their rise to power. Essentially I am not saying the Jedi are perfect - just that it was the Sith who eroded the balance, the Jedi just weren't much good at stopping them).

 

Luke has lost his New Jedi's who simply changed the side.

It is Snoke who has menthored many Force sensitive people trough the years . He helped rebels against Empire (as an Old master) but also menthored many Force sensitivce rebels.

At one point some new Jedi have obliged to their old menthor, and togehter with Ben Solo rebeled from Luke, abandoning old ways.

Knights of Ren. Renegade means rebel.

 

He kinda did that in Jedi. Think back to when he looked at Vader's mechanical stump and then looks at his own mechanical hand, realizing their similarities. That realization (which would imply realizing that he has the potential for darkness, especially after the rage fueled part of the duel) makes him fully reject the Dark Side.

 

I believe I decoded Knights of Ren , and if we accept my theory we can debate more securely about destiny of Luke's Jedi.

Its Knights of Renegade.

renegade - dictionary:

1. One who rejects a religion, cause, allegiance, or group for another; a deserter.
2. An outlaw; a rebel.
adj.
Of, relating to, or resembling a renegade; traitorous.
intr.v. ren·e·gad·ed
To become a deserter or an outlaw.
3. A person who deserts his or her cause or faith for another; apostate; traitor

Luke's Jedi simply changed the side, its obvious. Its not just Kylo Ren.
Knights of Ren were former Lukes' Jedi-wanabees.