SPECULATION Luke's Reformation of the Jedi Will Draw Inspiration From The Mortis Arc of TCW

Without the context of where in the storyline Luke utters those words (and if they even are included in the final cut) it's very hard to stand firm on what it really does mean.

The Last Jedi does have a certain bleak outlook to it's tone and words if you're looking @ this from the Light vs Dark narrative that has been in all of SW (PT and OT) and similiarly The Empire Strikes Back was a dark time for the Rebels and the Jedi but it was the 2nd act and all good 2nd acts show the WORST scenarios happening to the protagonist/s.

This is where I suspect TLJ will be going.

 

Why would they??!!! That is nonsensical! Stop looking at everything from the Jedi perspective! Broaden your mind!
(And watch those absolute, black-and-white tendencies! The Darkside are they!

There's just too much of the Jedi-way that's getting in the way...

Yoda - fight with Dooku, fight with Palpatine! Windu - fight with Palpatine, also Windu is known to be on the 'dark-side' of the Jedi!
When Obi1 fought Maul, he was but a padawan. So he wasn't yet skilled enough to keep his anger under control (probably magnified by what just happened to Qui Gon, while he was unable to help him!

Anakin was a blind fool, who rather followed his fears than to use his brain and the wisdom of those around him!
The fact that Palpatine wispered conflicting, well chosen words of seduction in his ears from a young age, probably didn't help either!

Baseless how? In the real world??!!! We're talking SW here!! Besides, ever had to lift something heavy that just wouldn't budge, but when you got a little bit angry, whith a muffled curse and a yell you were able to lift it? I have...

"You're either angry or you're not." There you go again with those absolutes! Life isn't as black and white as that!

But Dooku has NEVER been shown to have them! It's actually canon! Because he wasn't fully committed to the darkside! (which is why palpatine wanted to replace him!)

Yeah, that is why Anakin was suckered in by his influence! Because lies are always best hidden in truth's! The Jedi were narrow in their view's, you've said it yourself! That was true! Doesn't mean I agree with Palpatines intentions!!

Why would he tell the truth?!! He would lie to keep control of Kylo Ren ofcourse! To coerse him into a line of thought Snoke wanted him to think!
Control, it's all about control! Just like the Sith! Vader had all the hallmarks of being able to be the most powerfull Sith in the Galaxy! Palpatine let him dangle just beyond the point were he was able to achieve it! Why/ To stay on top ofcourse, to stay in control!

Because for millennia the Jedi have been the same, following the same rules! The change needed would be SO great, they just wouln't be Jedi anymore! So it's only logical AND less confusing to call them something different!

Not just a rebranding, cause it's more than just a name-change! The recipe will also be significantly changed!

What is so confusing about it? It's actually less confusing! When you have a cookie for instance, and you change about half of the ingredients, it's no longer that same cookie right? So why would you still want to give it the same name? Better call it something else, so it's clear to everyone it's a different cookie!

Cause that's the way, the cookie crumbles!

 

I think within the SW universe we are told that hating, even a little bit (to lift a heavy object) is a path to the darkside. but of course we have always seen the GFFA through the eyes of Jedi and sometimes Sith teachings. so perhaps that is a lie, and it is possible to use rage in a just way, and Yoda simply didn't know that because the Jedi teachings told him otherwise. Perhaps the Jedi scriptures were written by sith/snoke to keep the light side weaker, and the jedi bought it.

I don't thin thats right, but it could be. everything we know about the force could be a lie based on what luke found out.

 

I feel like in the OT the Force was a lot more mystical and a lot more inclusive. It was only roughly defined and we, from watching Luke, got the feeling that only when at peace can you truly be a Jedi, can you truly divine good from evil. The Jedi were kind of wandering knights putting things right.

In the PT we had a very rigid society full of rules and expectations and baggage. The Force was almost scientifically looked at, and the inclusiveness was removed; normal people weren't Jedi, otherwise you'd have been taken as a child and all that.

So, over the PT and the OT the Force went from a rigid dogma to a sort of mysticism/zen. Now that we're in the ST, what's the next step in the progression?

I think @master_shaitan is on to something with the "new Jedi" line, only because the narrative would be making a 180 from the line in TFA.

We should also remember that regardless of Luke saying this, Rey is still obviously getting trained.

 

Anger does not necessarily mean Hating, Someone or something can anger you, doesn't mean you hate them/it! Rage is a tad further down the line, it's on the border of losing control, so one might want to avoid that!
No, nothing so extreme! Anger comes in SO many stages and nuances, from being slightly annoyed to totally going berserk!
You need to be aware of where in the anger-spectrum you are and try to keep your anger-level... ehm... level.

Well, should TPTB bring the Je'daii-Legends back to Canon, They were in the middle. Because some went too far in experimenting with some more extreme powers, their thinking became warped and went all 'Grindelwald - For the Greater Good' on the Galaxy!
The remaining Je'daii became scared of the 'darker-side of life' and founded the Jedi-Order! With strict rules against even thinking about such powers!
That is the irony of it all, it was fear that drove the Je'daii to become the Jedi!

Fear of the Dark-side!

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 15, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 15, 2017 ---

Not necessarily! In the TFA (apart from Luke, who is in hiding) there are no more Jedi! The Jedi, the Force, they have become myth!
In the days of the republic, Rey and Ben would have been recognized as children and been trained from a young age.

And now The Force itself has Awoken, it is taking a more active role in the lives of highly Force-sensitive people, like Rey and even Finn, guiding them more obviously when they really need it, showing them the way...

That is why it is now the perfect time to reform the Force-knights and their ways, because noone hardly remembers them! And Luke is the last one!
Now he can use all the knowledge, wisdom and experience he's garnered to create something new! Something pure and more attuned to the entire Force and all of it's facets! Why keep a dusty, archaic name that has no longer any meaning to anyone in the Galaxy?

 

Yeah, you kinda missed my point, but whatever.

I doubt Jedaii will come back at all, but the Whills thing will definitely play a role moving forward. It was pretty obvious after watching R1 and this sort of seals the deal.

 

What was your point that I missed? (I'm truly curious, not dissing you here! I'd like to know, cause if I did you wrong then it deserves rectifying!)

Maybe not, but the Whill's were a large part of that lore! And I agree about the Whill's playing a big part in SW going forward!

 

I don't think the Jedi will be gone forever, I think Luke will say the old ways of the Jedi need to die so that something new can arise. This will mirror Snoke's thoughts about the sith and by the end of The Last Jedi the Jedi are reorganized as the Ashla or Jedi-Ashla and the Sith as the Bogun or Bogun-Sith. With Snoke being described as ancient it would make sense for him to use the ancient word for the dark side and Luke seems to have those ancient looking books about the force. It would be really cool if Luke told a version of the story of the brother/father/sister but the names in the story were Bogun (the brother), Ashla (sister) and Bendu (father).
Ideally I would love for this trilogy to end with major twists in that Rey eventually is turned to the dark side, Kylo denounces Snoke and becomes "bendu" and Finn discovers his force abilities (Yes I still think it will happen) and joins the light. So the main three of the sequel trilogy all represent the different sides of the force.

 

You're bonkers. But that's unrelated to this thread.

My honest answer is I have no idea, based on information we have been given. However, I do believe Luke will re-establish the Jedi of old with Rey's help. He is a Jedi, like his father before him after all.

I like the idea of the ambiguity of Force usage, but for Luke, he should remain on the path he was destined for.

 

I think in some way the Mortis arc might have certain influence. We might want to remember we do not know yet where Luke was immediately after ROTJ - between Endor and Jakku - we just have a notion from Shattered Empire # 4 where he and Shara Bey go and pick up two Force trees.

We might also want to think of how a bigger picture of the way the Force works has been expanded during the current canon. Mortis, Nightsisters, Bendu, Stonepower, Ordu Aspectu, Cosmic Force (Yoda arc TCW Season 6) are some recent additions to the canon and I am looking forward to see them impacting in some way the Jedi Master Luke we see in Ahch-To.

Many have complained about the abundance of material we have seen from the period of time between ANH and TESB, but so far I am finding interesting bits of the development of Luke towards Dagobah. I am looking to see what he was doing during the Aftermath trilogy and I feel it will be related with this.

Agree. They would not have done a lot of stuff they did - like just expelling Ahsoka without realizing all she had done for the Jedi Order. Of course I was sad she left at the end, but she was so right in doing so.

Exactly! Ahsoka is the best example. She is no Jedi but she is a Light side user. Even the way she gets her lightsabers is rad.

I for one would love to see her confrontation with Maul in the Siege of Mandalore. Two Force users, both no longer Jedi nor Sith, fighting each other. (Please Filoni, make it happen!)

+1

Please accept a bottle of the finest Alderaanian wine as a compliment for such a sublime post.

 

FYI: https://thecantina.starwarsnewsnet.com/index.php?threads/snoke-the-mortis-arc.11559/

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 18, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 18, 2017 ---

That gobbledygook was created by Lucas himself. He inspired/wrote story details/signed off on TCW stories, from which this "gobbledygook" comes from.

 

That scene is important,of course... but:
Later on, after the test, we understand that the Father is already sure that Anakin is the chosen one.
He (the Father) doesn't need a proof.
He organizes the "test" only to show Anankin his own power. Becosue is Anakin that who does not believe to be the Chosen One.

This is important becouse of what happens and it is reveled later on.

I said it in another thread.. however:

1- The Daughter (the Light) sacrifices herself to save the Father (the Balance), allowing the Son (the Dark Side) to kill her.
2- The Father says to dead body of the Daughter that he was a fool because he wanted to change the course of events.
In addition, that's also hinted in the opening crawl of that Episode.
But how did the the F.try to change the future? Calling for Anakin and trying - showing him with the test that is the C.O. - to convince him to stay on Mortis.
Had he stayed, the future would have changed.

The Daughter allowing the Son to kill her (saving the Father = the Balance) is a metaphore of Order 66.
And a conection to the Yoda's Arc.
When Yoda meets Q. G. J. the Light Side knows what's going to happen.
Still QGJ ghost does not tell Yoda "Do that and this will not come true".
Because to change the course of events (even bad events) it's evel.

QGJ says to Yoda that in the dark times coming, Forces of the Light must remain, to guide... who?
At that stage Luke is not even conceived.
But the Light side knows he will be. It knows Anakin is the Chosen One and Luke the key to let him accomplish the prophecy.

And it's not coincidence that the last words of the Father to Anakis are that he (the F.) is heartbroken, knowing the role Anakin will play...

The tragedy of Anakin Skywalker may be even bigger that we already know: he was supposed to do exactly what he did.
And I bet the ST will explore this detail.
I guess it's not conicidence that we're learnig there was anoth player (a dark nd powerfull one) in the UR even then...

 

I think everyone is getting bogged down in jedi v. sith. Grey doesn't mean evil. The Bendu isn't evil. The father isn't evil. Jedi died because they too dealt in absolutes. Their piety and tunnel vision caused them to be weak and susceptible to the forces of evil and blind to plots against them. Their piety caused the death of innocents. Their piety and absoluteness caused no future Kenobis (possibly) or children of Luke (possibly) or children of Yoda (definitely) that could do good in the universe. He isn't saying "abandon being a force of good in the universe." He's saying "the jedi order is also responsible for this destruction also, and I won't be a part of it any longer." Nobody is saying "we must become more dark." I think "grey" is simply saying that extremism on either side is bad, and leads to bad things, and to close your mind off to the world around you, the forces of nature around you, possible solutions outside your normal realm of thinking, and you become pious and self-righteous...that is dangerous and leads to pain and suffering.

 

Okay but the OT celebrated the Jedi making them sononomous with being good. So tossing the name aside or degrading its credibility takes away from the films of the OT.

 

Yep. And this is my concern with all of Disney's choices.

Rebels diminishes the idea that Luke was the last Jedi.

The Han Solo film will remove many an intriguing mystery and now talk of Master Vos being in it will diminish Solo's dialogue about the Jedi being a myth.

Rogue One ripped characters, dialogue and scenes from ANH, diminishing that film for any first time viewers.

Haven't the time to go on but here are many other choices made that have a diminishing impact upon Lucas' films. I hope this won't be another one. Having the force go out of balance again so soon after rotj was a bit off (though necessary) but now the thought of rejecting the Jedi ways...that will make a mockery out of the entire trilogy.