Main Finn/John Boyega Episode IX Thread

SOP is on a mission none of us know exactly what it is...but its best not to go down that rabbit hole you will find its a bottomless pit.

 

Han wasn't really embarrassed by Vader. Finn on the other hand got brutally beat up and finished the movie unconscious.

 

I own the Art of TLJ.

It's true. It's in the art book

@Use the Falchion
Keep in mind when Kennedy became head of the company, her first priority was to put females (white) as leads because she saw Star Wars and other films with female characters as just the "girlfriend." Look at all superhero movies and action movies up until 2014. There was no Black Panther, Captain Marvel or Wonder Woman films at that time. (Let's ignore outliers like Steel, Catwoman, Electra but damn do I miss Blade)

So for her, putting women (white) in the lead role was important her. Compared to how you don't want black men to just be the sidekick or comic relief. Sure everyone loves Leia, but the last Star Wars movie had Padme pregnant, no agency and wimpily killed off. Kennedy sought to rectify that.

Before you guys put out "Hey, there have been action females as leads in franchises before. Look at Sara Conner or Ripley or the final girl in every horror flick." True but keep in mind those females aren't the mascots or money makers in those franchises. It's the "villains" like the T-800, the Xenomorph, Jason Voorhies, Freddy Krueger, etc. that keep the franchises going and appear on t-shirts and merchandise.

Kennedy wanted that for women (white) and that's want she's doing with the franchise, by putting them on the forefront. It's worked. There are more women (at least white women) that are in to Star Wars than ever before. She's increased the audience.

So currently you're never going to get Finn or someone like Finn, to where you would want them to be in Star Wars. Not while Kennedy's in charge at least. Unfortunately Finn, despite lying marketing, was created to be secondary to Rey and the Skywalker clan.

As far how history will look back on us in centuries to come and compare to old mythology. Well, other franchises are making strides. Disney will eventually come out with black women leads in Sade and the Rocketeer reboot.

Marvel is doing Black Panther as we said and soon with Shang-Chi.

Even Star Wars is having Pedro Pascal and Diego Luna as leads in their Disney + shows.

We may see more variety with black leads in Star Wars one day. Finn was just unfortunately created too early when their focus is on women (white).

 

Han wouldn't have lasted 30 seconds with Vader. Finn at least got a couple of hits on Kylo. Vader wasn't trying to kill Han, which is why he just took his weapon and had cocktails with him before torturing him for fun.

 

Yeah I know, and in so many ways I commend Kathleen on what she did. It's inspiring to see so many girls relate to Rey (even if I personally couldn't relate less to her). It's cool to see Qi'ra and Jyn Erso be the faces of stories (...despite all three of the new main females being British brunettes...). The problem to me starts when one type of person is stepped on so another type can rise. To be fair, I have blind spots about this too and if/when I create my own media I want to be called out when I do the same to others.
But for Finn and others, going forward it's an easy fix - get someone who cares about black leads and the black characters in Star Wars the same way Kathleen feels about women in Star Wars.

Most of this did come down to marketing. TFA sold us on duel leads, with a black former stormtrooper who would be holding and wielding THE lightsaber. Rey was expected to be the Jedi, and there were high hopes that there was enough room for two. But if they never sold us that lie on the poster, in the Instagram teasers, or other small trailers, I bet Finn wouldn't be as...controversial as he is now.

Honestly as just a character I don't think Finn is a failure. His arc in TFA makes sense, and I see what RJ was going for in TLJ.

On the other hand...not to defend Poseidon (too much!), but there IS power in seeing someone like yourself on screen. THAT'S why Finn matters. That's why representation matters. I watched a LOT of cartoons as a kid, and of them, I can only think of a few that had black leads that weren't in an ensemble cast (Static Shock, Proud Family, Hey Bill (or whatever that kid Bill Cosby show was) and Filmore!). I couldn't tell you why I loved these shows until I was older, but it was because someone who LOOKED LIKE ME was the hero. Heck, the Static Shock gun violence episode has stuck with me ever since I watched it over 15 years ago.
I love Star Wars and want to share it with any future children I have, but I also want them to see it and see themselves in the characters in the best way possible. The OT didn't do that for me as a kid (then again, at that age I only cared about the lightsabers). The PT did to a degree - because when there are so many Jedi in the world, who's to say you CAN'T be one? The ST...well...I had more hopes than I do now...

 

I can name a bunch of black shows and characters that as a white kid I loved and never once thought about race or representation. I think the social media and social justice world that's been created has made people much more sensitive and cognizant of representation. I watched, Cosby, What's Happening, Family Matters, Good times, In Living Color, etc. Never thought about race. Some of my favorite actors were black and never thought anything of it. Louis Gosset Jr, Samuel L Jackson, Wesley Snipes (Willie Mays Hayes from Major League FTW!), Dennis Haysbert (President Palmer!), Denzel Washington in literally EVERYTHING!

I find it interesting that in 2019 people are acting like representation is a new thing. Social Media has warped people's views of society. I just like cool characters and good stories. Black, white, yellow, brown. Who gives a darn! LET'S ENJOY GREAT CHARACTERS REGARDLESS!

 

And as a black kid watching those shows I mattered even more because it related to people like me. It showed people who look like me in a media form inundated with those who don't. I realized this a LONG time before 2019. That was just when I sat down and thought of my issues with Star Wars as a whole, which are pretty recent. And a lot of those shows you mentioned? Those were for black people starring black people. And even then, I had to wait until 2014 until even one of those shows touched on a race problem I had been dealing with for the PAST SIX YEARS.
There is nothing wrong in enjoying she shows you mentioned, and I grew up on many of those shows too. ...well the ones that were on when before I went to bed anyways... but reaching outside of that bubble it's a lot harder.
Why weren't there more black actors on shows like Friends or Will & Grace? Shows that aired around the same time that were FAR more popular to a larger audience? Why did the failed superhero movie Green Lantern choose Hal Jordan, instead of the one the generation they were pandering to (mine) grew up with in John Stewart? Even if the quality was still terrible, I guarantee it would have made more money.

So back to your original point, I agree, let's enjoy great characters. There are hundreds of non-black/minority characters that I love and look up to. But getting a great character that looks like you AND is the hero? That can change a kid's life. After all, it's nice to see yourself in more than just the best friend (even when the best friend/sidekick is the better character*).

And we should probably cut it here because what we don't want this to be anything like the OTHER Finn forum. (I refuse to become the very thing I wished to destroy!) Agree to disagree on some things?

*Finn > Rey FIGHT ME.*

*But really don't fight me this thread isn't the place for that.

 

I don't think I disagree on any particular point.

What do you think of Finn and the new Jannah character teaming up? We've yet to see a strong black female role in these films and I'm curious how Finn plays off of her. Hopefully they leave the jokes at the door and let them challenge each other, not have her overshadow him.

 

It's one of the few things I'm looking forward to. I'll wait until we see actual scenes in trailers or the movie comes out to get excited. You?

 

I hope we see a less goofball Finn in the The Rise of Skywalker. I want to see him as a more serious fighter. I think with the time jump we are going to have going into this movie will allow for a change in the tone of the character.

I like the images we see of Finn and Jannah. I think there is potential tjere fo a very cool scene between the two them.

 

I just don't want to see her "schooling" him on anything. I'd like to see him show her how proficient he is with the blaster while she shows off her bow skills. Something like that. I also feel like we need to see Finn save someone's life, not the other way around.

Hopefully, by the end of TROS, people will feel better about FInn's character. I will be the first to complain if we get more of the same Finn. There has to be an evolution.

 

Finn's a badly done character regardless of his race. However, the fact that he's done badly done Black character and Star Wars is a franchise that wants to pride itself on inclusion, only make Star Wars look bad.

Does Finn have to be perfect? No.
Does Finn have to be respected by the narrative? Yeah.
Does Finn need to be a super badass? No.
Does Finn need to have agency? And not be forced into situations where he's constantly dehumanized, made fun of, and disregarded? Yeah.
Those types of scenes didn't have to exist. They didn't have to be written, filmed, and released. Someone made the decision to write them out, and apparently no one stopped and said "Hey, this may not be the best way to treat one of our leading characters." Let alone a leading character who's a part of a marginalized community. ​

If they weren't going to take these diverse characters seriously, they probably shouldn't have attempted at all. Lucasfilms brought this on themselves.

Not to turn this discussion to race but...

Discussions about representation have been ongoing for a long time, far longer than the internet has been around. If you're familiar with DW Griffith's Birth of a Nation, many members of the NAACP boycotted that film for its negative depictions of African Americans (and the fact that it helped reignite interest in KKK membership was also a bad after effect.) It's just that now with the rise of the internet people who speak of these issues get far more attention.

And to answer your earlier question tech(I'm assuming it was an open question) I don't think Lucasfilms set out to make this character offensive or bad etc, but they did have blindspots that they did not notice, and with TLJ its clear they didn't learn from their previous mistakes. It's pretty much a discussion on intent vs impact.

DW Griffith may not have intended for his film to reignite a Klan membership, but that's what happened and that was the impact that Black Americans had to live with after the release of his movie.

And God only knows what negative impact Finn will have on others down the line.

 

It wasn't "for fun," it was to bring Luke to Cloud City.

I thought Finn was a really good character in TFA. I am not a huge fan of what they did with him in TLJ, but that is nothing un-redeemable. I think JJ will complete Finn's arc in a satisfactory way.

 

Yes I realize he did it to cause pain that would bring Luke to Cloud City to save him. But that was too much to type.

 

that from force awakens that why he has stormtrooper black shirt on. My link was for Star Wars official website for the latest books that will come out this year.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 5, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 5, 2019 ---

I got a bad feeling about this !

Looks like another Rose Tico type character JJ trying to Recon RJ work from TLJ. I can see Finn going get outdone by the new Rose Tico character name Jannah

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 5, 2019 ---

Yea but all the bombers died so it makes sense to cut Finn out of this unless you wanted him do die with the rest of the bombers.

 

Aw man. I really wanted to see the bitchslap video. Does anyone know what was originally posted?

edit: Never mind, I figured it out. Sorry for interrupting, carry on.

 

I am posting this video to make people upset and for some a good laugh that will make other upset lol once you see it you understand.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 11, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 11, 2019 ---

It's the typical stereo type racist believe that blacks are just janitors who clean their floors. This is why I never took any my kids to see TFA or TLJ neither will i take them to see 9 with these racist sterotype of blacks in their movies.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 11, 2019 ---

This is 100 percent true !

I'm predicting they will kill Finn off in 9. As John Boyega said that's it for him with star wars after 9, this was at an interview at star wars celebration, then in the ceelbration he said if they ask him to come back in the furture to do celebration he would is another sign they ended his movies contracts which he said in the past he signed up for 3 movies.

MOD EDIT

 

I saw that video but no I didn't get in and I mean that in the most polite and postive way.

The whole of TFA went missing after TLJ, the whole direction was flipped and not in a postive schema, especially not for Finn.

 

GEORGE LUCAS GAVE US LANDO AND MACE...DISNEY GAVE US FINN...NUFF SAID!