Main Finn/John Boyega Episode IX Thread

Saying someone is not force sensitive is equal to hating a character now? Wasn't it via versa? People hating Finn because he might not be force sensitive? Does someone in that Galaxy have to have the force to be lovable? Actually I like that he's force sensitive but that doesn't make him more or less lovable. Actually doesn't steal it away a lot from his choice to leave the first order? Because nor it was just the force, not Finn himself?

 

THIS THIS THIS A THOUSAND TIMES THIS. Reylo is an abusive relationship. Everything Kylo does is to corrupt, bring down, or torture Rey until she becomes just like him (which might be a side effect of his own grooming and abuse at the hands of Snoke, but THEN IT SHOULDN'T BE PAINTED AS A GOOD THING, LET ALONE A ROMANCE). You can see good in someone and still decide NOT to contact them anymore after they've changed.

Not to mention, in TROS, he knows Rey better than anyone else. Kylo thinks that Rey's defined by his past - like he tries to be (in a complete 180 from TLJ), while Finn knows who Rey is. Or at least who she can be. And most importantly Finn trusts Rey. Sometimes trust is more vital than understanding.

Kylo had to check Rey's body to know she was dead. Finn sensed it through the Force. In TLJ, Kylo states that Rey is "no one," but Finn proved in the movie right before that Rey was somebody worth saving.

Finn and Kylo are arguably mirrors in a lot of ways. Force sensitive youths who were misunderstood by their peers and abused by their mentors (maybe not physically for Finn as far as we know, but being raised to be a Stormtrooper for over half of your life isn't an ideal childhood either). And yet one didn't need prompting to turn to the light. One didn't need to know his past to decide his future.

SAME.

 

It sure is. Especially after Abrams compared the force probe scene in TFA to rape. How does one go from that to those two characters sharing a kiss?

I don't recall anyone hating the character because he may have not been force-sensitive. I do however recall people being disappointed with the idea that all the hints dropped in TFA could ultimately end up being pointless and a waste of time that could have been better used to establish the character going forward. That was actually a fair gripe.

Nope. As we know from the OT when Luke throws down his saber against Palpatine, the force doesn't make choices for you. Even in this movie Ben Solo doesn't make better choices because the force makes him, he does it himself. So it is with Finn not firing on the civilians in TFA.
As I've been saying throughout the time this trilogy has been going on, Finn's decision not to fire on them was his own. The only thing the force did was allow him to see beyond the bubble he was raised in.
Besides, it makes sense given the hints in TFA and the time constraints in TRoS.

 

General Finn the rank finally came.

 

This is an excellent observation. Finn was indoctrinated in darkness, but chose the light. Ben was indoctrinated in light, but chose the dark. I will gave JJ Abrams credit for the DS scene with Han. It was necessary. Because in TFA when he kills Han is one of the only times we actually see Ben; Snoke was right when he observed that it had broken him. It was fitting that Ben has that moment on the gantry with his father one more time, and that ultimately the parents he thought threw them away, both died to bring him back. That part is beautiful.

Another beautiful moment (IMO). In part because it distinguished Finn's connection from Kylo. Kylo's connection was forced (literally). She was connected to him because of the Force dyad, because of the mind probe, because of Snoke, and because of Luke. She never actually seeks it out, no one asks her for her permission, it's thrust upon her. Finn's connection to her is out of free will. They both choose the connection (whether it's romantic or not is immaterial to me). So when he feels her death, I believe it AND appreciate it.

And that is a much more accurate account of the critiques IMO. Great post.

It wasn't even us that floated the idea that making him FS somehow invalidated the choice he made. We argued against it. I think things all began to unravel for the Anti-FS Finn contingent, when everything they said made him special ( his ethics and his courage for example) was either subverted or not built upon in TLJ. After TRoS I was really kind of expecting a lot of them to return here and complain about Company 77 ruining Finn (since they laid down their arms and didn't fire on civilians either)

I may be the only one that doesn't like this. I have never liked this, since the times of the OT. Every character becomes a general for no apparent reason. How many field promotions are we gonna make? It's like Oprah with those cars, "you get a general, and you get a general, and you get a general". LOL, I hate that.

 

I don't really care for it either. I think that if it was something that characters had to earn throughout these films it would make sense. For example, in Poe's case it works because we've seen his character being groomed for it (one of the few things I give TLJ credit for). In Finn's case it doesn't work for me because it wasn't earned or shown to be something he actually wanted. It really comes off as bad fanservice because it's just a consolation prize for characters not featured in the main plot.
I find it funny that you mention the Oprah joke because ironically I'm still seeing people use it as an argument against Finn being FS. When has it ever been a thing that it was relegated to special bloodlines or a handful of people in the galaxy? As far as Company 77 goes, it's only vaguely hinted that the rest of them are FS and the conversation, as far as we know, was only shared between Finn and Jannah. It could very well be that Finn is the only actual reveal and the rest simply benefitted from understanding the morality of what they were asked to do. But then again, like I said before, even Finn himself is a bridge too far for a lot of people.

But I would like to call attention to the fact I was right when I said none of the people that complained would do the same for Ben Solo. Notice how no one has a problem with him helping Rey as a Jedi? But somehow Finn doing the same was unnecessary? The only thing they're mad at is that he died which is funny because they're also still arguing that Finn should have died.

 

Am looking forward to Project Luminos, great to get some material without the shadow of Kylo / Ben intoxicating everything. More Rey / Finn will be great. More interesting now he's confirmed force sensitive, let hear more about their force bond and training. I'd be happy.

 

Guess I can't call this "false advertising" anymore!

 

I personally did not care whether Finn was force sensitive or not. However, I am happy that he is. I think it sets things up nicely if Lucasfilm comes back with more movies involving these characters in 10-15 years

 

10 to 15 years i doubt that maybe never best start with a new slate and new direction with star wars.

They need but Rey and FInn and Poe maybe in a year or two on Disney plus

 

This is actually a great point. Company 77 is out here exposing Finn bias left and right. Not only do they expose the hypocrisy of fans who felt like Finn being FS takes away from Rey and Kylo, they also expose the flaws in Finn's "development" in TLJ. What do I mean by that? Well everyone was making the argument that he 'needed' to join the Resistance or he was somehow in the wrong even if he helped defeat the First Order in his own way on his own terms? Fast forward to now and Finn's made up "flaw" is made even more ridiculous. Now you have a whole group of people who are just like him only they're not being bullied into joining the Resistance and they're not being called cowards or told that not joining makes them complicit with the First Order's deeds.

Also, remember how people had a problem when I suggested that Finn be the leader of his own group of defecting stormtroopers? Remember how Finn getting his own weapon was unnecessary? How him being scared and the "audience surrogate" was so endearing?

I introduce you to Jannah who:
Leads her own group of defecting stormtroopers
Has her own unique weapon
Gets to be competent right out of the gate
Even gets to be hinted as being FS

Why isn't anyone complaining about any of this?

I think I know. Once again we find out it's only wrong or unnecessary if it's Finn.

 

All valid points. I do wonder what future Finn might do though now that this saga is over and there's no FS to oppose anymore, what might he do next. I know a lot of people are going for Jedi Master Finn. I still think Finn doing his own thing might be MORE interesting (granted I think we believe that this will probably only happen in Comic books for the time being). But Finn leading Company 77 to explore the unknown regions might really pay dividends.

I'm also curious to see how Finn will be represented in the next Battlefront instantiation. Is it just going to be blasters or will he have actual Force Powers. It'll be interesting to see. I know some people will probably lobby for a Finn that only "feels" the Force but doesn't actively use it. I think that train has set sail though. If they manage to carve out an interesting story and development separate from Rey, he could become the cult hero that Han is (though he still behind the curve at this point even with FS). I'm not saying he has to be an expert pilot but he has to develop some expertise to make exploration of the Unknown Region (if that's what they go with) plausible and exciting.

 

Speaking of video games, I wonder if Boyega would be open to returning to the Finn role for that. It's not as time-consuming as doing movies and he seems to like promoting them.

 

I guess it depends on when the next version of BF comes out and if there is any development of the character in supplemental material between now and then. I think/hope he'd do it. There's only so many lines he'd have to do it for it anyway.

 

With video games you can give him his own story and circumvent the Rey problem by simply making her a NPC that gives him advice. Then you can add a couple of side missions with characters like Rose and Jannah.
Since he's surprisingly never been demoted on the video game front you can 'buff' him that way so if he does come back to the role in film down the line you don't have to wait for him to develop at a snails pace like in the ST.
No one should have a problem with that (I'm sure some would still complain because Finn). But it's a well-known fact that many fans want to adapt characters from video games anyway hence rumors about a KOTOR trilogy.

So that's a condensed idea about how to boost Finn's profile with the ST being over.

 

Oh back tracking for a second, something you said earlier reminded me of something I've seen. And it may not pertain so much to posters on this site, but definitely with some of the media pundits. I wish I still had the link to the actual editorial so I could post it, but what they guy was complaining about was that JJ gave into the fandom with his creative decisions (as though Iger had not weighed in already and made sure the last film was a fan film) by walking back important developments from TLJ. Among them: that JJ had reversed the idea that you didn't have to come from a certain bloodline and have a certain name to be significant and make a difference, but in revealing Rey was a Palpatine, they had destroyed all that.

???

Ummm can I introduce you to a character named Finn? Or are we telling on ourselves that we don't actually believe Finn was significant and made a difference? LOL I swear man. Rian did have this one thing right, with the way they postured Finn he really does have to go off on his own to develop. Rian just made him into a completely generic and forgettable resistance fighter, such that entertainment bloggers can critique JJ's movie and not remember that Finn's story is exactly what you are saying doesn't exist in the ST.

 

Except that Finn was not supposed to be a generic and forgettable resistance fighter. JJ, unlike Rian Johnson, made clear that he can do things other generic Resistance fighters could not, such as using the force to locate the transmitting tower at the Battle of Exegol, or ( probably now also through a connection with the force) deflecting Kylo Ren’s lightsaber attack and even striking Kylo in TFA.

As for his family background, we actually don’t know anything about it, which doesn’t necessarily mean he is a nobody. I suppose it is hinted in Episode IX that Jannah for example might be related to Lando. Finn could be as well related to someone else from the previous trilogies or the broader canon. His origin could be explored in future books, animated series or live-action series for example.

It is also worth saying that, although force sensitivity runs in family bloodlines, there are many such bloodlines across the galaxy and, in the case of tge hundreds ( thousands ?) of Jedi of the Old Republic, little information is known about their families. Even a character like Ezra in Rebels, who was unusually strong in the force ( more so than his master), as far as I know did not have force sensitive parents.

 

He wasn't supposed to be generic or forgettable I agree, but making his next big development joining the Resistance in TLJ, was honestly not very big, creative, nor portend a future full of promise. Finn is FS, I keep hearing people say it's implied in this movie, it's not implied it's overtly illustrated and it's a done deal. When Han dies and Leia feels it, no one says, "it implies that Leia's FS". She reacted because she is FS. Finn reacted because he is FS. There are no implications anymore. Finn is FS.

But as of right now we don't know his name, we don't know his bloodline. And under that banner of anonymity he continued to fight against the F.O. Therefore how is Rian Johnson's message that you don't need a name to be a factor, subverted by JJ's movie? This question isn't aimed at you Mbruno, I'm just pointing out the problem with this argument is that for it to be true, you have to disregard Finn's impact and story (which many of them were doing all the while saying they loved him)

 

Stuff like this apparently not has to be spelled out for a lot of people. Either that or he has to actually say "I'm force-sensitive" or people won't believe it because again, Finn.
Speaking of which, the whole idea of being against it continues to astound me. People are on Twitter at this moment saying they don't like the reveal because they think the force made him good. I know, ridiculous argument but they'll say anything to make it seem like a problem.

Simple, it isn't.