Main Finn/John Boyega Episode IX Thread

I got your point, but I don’t think JJ and Chris Terrio are trying to either prove or disprove that anyone can be force sensitive. The fact is that being force sensitive is a hereditary trait and runs in bloodlines. If Finn is force sensitive ( which now seems to be a fact), he must have had force sensitive ancestors . We just don’t know about them.

Furthermore, individuals who are exceptionally strong in the force ( i.e. have midchlorian counts off the chart) normally come from particular bloodlines like Ben , who is the grandson of Vader, or Rey, who is Palpatine ‘s granddaughter.

The unsolved mystery is why Palpatine’s son wasn’t force sensitive either or why he was apparently unimportant to the emperor and only Rey mattered.

Can sensitivity to the force, albeit a hereditary trait, not manifest itself in one particular generation , but be transmitted to the following one nonetheless ? There is some evidence to support that as Ezra Bridger for example was born of non-force-sensitive parents , but turned out to be a very strong ( above average) force user.

I know many posters reject the hereditary nature of force sensitivity and subscribe to the idea that the force ( or the midchlorians) somehow “ choose” certain people to be force sensitive or not, but I don’t believe that as I don’t think the force is sentient. A controversial topic of course.

 

Force-sensititlvity has never been relegated to being a hereditary thing. I don't know when people adopted that idea but it's never been established in the canon.
The Jedi found children all around the galaxy. Why the assumption that they all came from force-sensitive parents? Especially considering the fact that Jedi have a thing against forming attachments and for celibacy. I think a lot of people just like the idea of only a certain group of people being 'special' for whatever reason. Finn being force-sensitive disproves the idea that you have to come from a special bloodline to wield the force.
Saying that someone has to come from a special bloodline to wield the force is like saying Olympic-level athletes have to be descended from Olympic athletes which is simply not true and makes no sense.

 

I assume people who fall into those categories are trolling, and this is their last gasp.

You know I'm not sure if I fully agree with all this. I think what we've seen thus far is that it can correlate with heredity, but I'm not entirely sure that it is necessarily an inherited trait. It's possible that somewhere in Finn's past their were other Force Users, but it's possible there weren't. I mean we have no indication at all that Shmi was FS, and yet Anakin was off the charts. I'm not even sure Midichlorians choose certain people, I think it's just random chance that some are, and some aren't FS.

It does stand out to me that we don't have any indication that Palpatine's son was FS, but if it's random, then it isn't totally out of place.

 

Been gone a while...just stopped in to say...sigh...smdh.

 

Care to share your thoughts about the movie and Finn?

 

What's going on.

Here's a bit of an organized rant:

• Some of this can be considered nitpicks, but Rey was annoying sometimes:
  • While I know some of this had to happen else the story couldn’t be told, but she left her training and then had the mishap with force lighting later which was supposed to give us the impression that Chewy died, something the movie immediately let you know wasn’t true in the very next scene. I don’t equate this with Luke leaving Dagobah because in Empire Strikes Back, Luke lost in Cloud City and the whole of the Resistance lost in that movie, so he learned his lesson. It wasn’t the last movie in the series, it was the second movie in the series.
  • I didn’t mind that she confided in Finn. At the very least, it gave their relationship some meaning other than her constant stoic reactions to him and Finn’s constant freaking out about her. However, she should’ve confided in Leia who was supposed to be her master. Yes, yes, I know plenty of Padawans over the years (invoking EU here) and even if we think of Anakin and Luke, they didn’t fully tell their Masters everything. It just seemed that for someone who was so foreign to the Force in a time where Force Users are absolutely rare, you’d think Rey would be more open to finding out more about what was going on with her. I mean that was supposed to be her character arc, right? She wanted to discover everything that was going on with her unless she was hiding visions from someone who could potentially give her insight into what they were or how to handle them.
  • Leaving her friends, going at it alone. This happened at least twice. Both times caused problem. The first got Chewy caught and I also blame Finn partially for that for freaking out over Rey. But I also blame Rey which goes back to the whole leaving before her training was finished thing. Then it happened again on Kef Bir which led her to Kylo, which led to Leia’s death. The point, you’d think after two movies of Rey running around like this that by the last one she’d figure out that she’s part of a team and not by herself. Then on top of that she goes and heals Kylo? Oh but now he’s supposed to be Ben, right?
• Lack of authentic camaraderie between Poe, Finn, and Rey
  • In TFA, Finn and Poe had chemistry, Finn and Rey had chemistry. It got lost somewhere in TLJ. IMO, TLJ ruined all of these characters. Their chemistry felt forced in TROS.
• Palpatine, and the Last of the Palpatine’s, seriously?
  • We started with the Skywalker saga, yes I was and still am an advocate that Star Wars stories can exist without it focusing so heavily on the Skywalkers, but the movies were their saga up until TLJ killed Luke, Leia who’s death was also required by the unfortunate passing of Carrie Fischer, and now Ben. Now it’s the Palpatine saga. Were the Skywalkers the chosen family? Was Anakin the chosen? Was Luke? And yes, I know some will want to argue what the Jedi argued in the Prequels that the vision of the chosen didn’t specifically say Anakin was the chosen, but given the narrative we saw through the stories it was obvious Anakin was meant to be the chosen. Yes I know in the EU Palpatine came back in the EU and as a clone no less with spirit-transference, but Luke was still around and plus he and Leia had children. There’s a difference in the movies where Luke was killed and left no offspring as far as we know unless it gets retconned later. Leia and Han only had Ben who died. So all Skywalker-Solos, original heroes of the story are dead and we’re left with a Palpatine? Seriously? Palpatine vs Palpatine at the end? No Skywalker? Yes, Ben was there, but didn’t do much and then died off.
  • I don’t care that at the end she claimed the “Skywalker” moniker, she’s a Palpatine officially. Having her claim that name felt like a slap in the face. She’s not a Skywalker. I don’t care if you place Luke and Leia’s Force Ghost there to try to cosign it. Is she supposed to be a Skywalker because she kissed Ben? Pfft.
• Finn’s Force Sensitivity
  • It’s a lot too late. Had the chance to confirm this in TLJ, completely ignored it. I think this is a clear, cut example of the problem of doing Star Wars movies with multiple directors, etc. While TFA wasn’t perfect, it was, in my opinion, clear, J.J. was toying with the idea of Finn using the force. Yes, I’m aware of all the fallout afterwards and the claims made as well. Some will argue TROS is made for the fans and J.J. is catering to certain groups. I agree to an extent, but still, they should’ve run with this all throughout the Sequel Trilogy. It’s sad that John Boyega had to fight for his character to get some emphasis and direction apart from being the Trooper Shooter he was on path to be. Given the path after TLJ, I can’t say I’m ecstatic now, maybe I’ll drop in to see what happens in further stories if they do something with Finn but seems like Boyega is done with the character.
• Reylo nonsense
  • It was highly unnecessary and really came out of nowhere. There was no reason for it, Rey had no romantic connection with Kylo/Ben and close connection with him that would warrant that kiss at the end. Their connection amounted to some bond through the Force and chasing each other around as enemies. The whole “she saw his mind” or “he saw her mind” stuff isn’t good enough here.

With that said, the movie was visually stunning and had some decent action scenes, but I think it’s clear J.J. Abrams, at least, didn’t know how to get away from the previous episodes. I told my wife this felt like a compacted version of Episodes 1-6 with some significant changes, but the major themes were there only not well executed. Before, I would’ve argued against that.

The overall problem I have is with the utter abrupt destruction of the Skywalker-Solo story. It was stupid of Kathleen Kennedy and crew to nullify the expanded universe then proceed to claim stuff like: https://boundingintocomics.com/2019...-no-source-material-we-dont-have-comic-books/.

…sigh…

 

Was talking with a friend about this who isn't that big or attentive as a Star Wars fan and he reminded me that Snoke gave Rey and Kylo the ability to talk through the Force in TLJ. I went out and did some light research to confirm, found this article listing Rey's abilities: https://www.cinemablend.com/news/24...i-skills-from-star-wars-the-rise-of-skywalker, it confirmed Snoke gave them the ability to talk to each other. So isn't this a plot hole since now it's revealed Palpatine created Snoke as one of his clones? Or at the very least, Palpatine deployed Snoke as an agent? He said he was behind Snoke and everything else. So shouldn't Palpatine had already been aware of their supposed Force Dryad thing?

Doesn't this further show the Reylo thing is nonsense since the connection wasn't their doing to begin with? I don't know, I never thought it worthwhile to debate with shippers. When Finn was friend-zoned and pushed off on Rose, I really didn't expect to see any romance in the Sequel Trilogy.

Just a small issue.

 

Snoke said he bridged their minds (allowing them to communicate), he didn't create the bond to begin with and it continued to grow without him.

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force-bond​

Kasdan also confirmed that the bond happens in TFA and has nothing to do with Snoke.

which is all worth a conversation in another thread.
let's keep this one focused on Finn please. : D

 

The bond was clearly supposed to have been created by Snoke in TLJ and then changed when JJ and Terrio abandoned the storylines from Episode VIII. Yes, I think it is a plot hole, but I don’t care about Episode VIII being undone.

On Finn’s future, I hope he has a relationship with Jannah as they are a perfect match. I assume Finn most likely will ask Rey to train him , but I don’t see them becoming romantically involved.

 

I can understand the "too little, too late" comment but I'll take the reveal as a nice little consolation prize.
For one thing, it's one of the few things that made sense given what we know from TFA. The plot threads were there and now we have confirmation. Besides, time constraints make it all the more necessary given that TLJ didn't bother to pick up the threads or address Finn's defection in any way. Which leads me to my next point:
Finn's reveal being so late means he gets to sort of have his cake and eat it too. It allows him a path for future interesting stories about his relationship with the force but also frees him from the weight of the trainwreck that was the force plot in this trilogy. Rey's story is pretty much hampered at this point because she's so overpowered that it removes all tension from any situation she's in from here on out. Also, it's so wrapped up in her relationship with Ben Solo that with him dead the only thing she has to lean on is a cheap imitation of Luke's story of rebuilding the Jedi Order.

 

Ok, just a little bit of speculation on Finn’s future.

Jannah wants to find out where she came from and it is hinted in TROS that she may have a connection to Lando.

Do you think that, now that the war is ( almost ?) over, Finn will also go looking for his biological parents and/or his origin story will be addressed in future Star Wars content ? Similarly, will Finn take a family name ? “General Finn” doesn’t sound very appropriate, considering a General is often addressed by his last name.


I suppose Finn also wants to be fully trained as a force user. Naturally , he will come to Rey and ask her to train him and I don’t see any reason why she would say no. Could he find, however, another master somewhere?

I hope Disney is not done with Finn and will persuade Boyega to reprise the character.

 

The problem with having Finn train as a Jedi now (to me) is that he has to do that training under Rey. And TRoS does not give me the sense that she is actually prepared to be a Master. The Sith Lightning slip up kind of illustrates that. She is powerful but she lacks control.

Also unless she's doing a cameo, I don't see how Finn could possibly be the centerpiece of any new media, if Rey is there also. She will be the most powerful thing on the screen wherever she goes, and the de facto star.

But then again, if more people in Company 77 are also FS, maybe they form a new fledgling Jedi Council and begin teaching other. Rey obviously has a head start, but if they divide the texts, and master the techniques and then teach each other what they know, maybe it doesn't become Gladys Knight and the Pips. It seems to me that's the only way it could work.

Unless they argue with Kylo gone, and the dyad destroyed, she's no longer uber powerful which I guess is a route they could go. I'm still floating around that Finn, Jannah, Rose, and Company 77 do a recon mission in the unknown regions to ensure there aren't more waiting surprises from the Empire and stumble upon a whole new threat. And in that adventure Finn learns to use the Force but not as a Jedi, but rather something different.

 

That could be cool if you write Rey out of the story in some way.

I've thought about this possibility as well.

That would be cool as well.
Having seen the Mandalorian and being introduced to Maz Kanata, I've been warming up to the idea of Finn being a non-Jedi force user.
I think another way to circumvent the Rey issue is to combine both ideas you presented. That is to say you can have Finn and Company 77 (provided they're force users) form their own group similar to the Jedi.The main differences being they wouldn't be beholden to the rules the Jedi have like celibacy, or suppressing anger etc. That way Rey can do her own Jedi stuff while Finn gets to lead his own story and his own faction.
They could also be like the Mandalorians in that they can be either allies or opponents of the Jedi, but with the added benefit of having force powers which would put them more on par as warriors without the use of all the armor and gadgets. They would have their own view of the force and how people should use and interact with it.

It also has the added benefit of establishing more tension between Finn and Rey.

 

I think ancestry causes a predisposition to force sensitivity but does not determine it. I think some species (see Yoda's yet unnamed species) have strong natural connections to the Force. I think a dichotomy they could have explored was Finn (a true "nobody) and Rey the emperor's granddaughter journey as new Force Users...but its painfully obvious this trilogy was not planned. I agree with a lot of BrotherRoyVA's sentiments (good to see you fam).

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 2, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 2, 2020 ---

Great original idea I love it. Too original for the "brain trust" at Lucasfilm story group I'm afraid. Although what you described has a few non jedi groups in Legends the Jed'aii and Imperial knights.

 

Perhaps a force ghost like Yoda, or Mace, or even Luke could train him...I mean if the powers that be REALLY wanted to...which I doubt. Finn becoming a Jedi is the last thing they would want, because it would take away from Rey.

 

Ezra is probably still alive given that Rey hears Ashoka and Kanan, but doesn’t hear Ezra. And he is about Luke’s age. If Finn goes on an exploration survey of the Unknown Regions and finds Ezra, he could learn from him, which would mean learning probably an unconventional approach to using the force.

 

This is a great observation and a great point

 

One thing you'll find as the new EU for lack of a better term, expands, is that despite what the movies lead you to think, there are always surviving Force Users, Jedi, and Sith or better put Light side users, Dark side users, and neutral Force Users. Even with the great Jedi hunt, there was never fully a shortage of surviving Jedi in hiding or rising Dark Force users.

Point being, there will be someone out there for Finn or Rey to learn from if they don't go the route they did with Luke in the movies that Finn, Rey, and other new Force sensitives have to learn to train themselves. Only difference being, Luke had the Jedi texts that are now burned so it's like them relearning everything if they go this route. I suspect they won't. Somewhere in a book, comic, video game, whatever, they'll introduce a hidden Jedi character like Ezra or someone else out of the blue.

If you've ventured through the interwebs and heard of some of the rumors out there then you probably know there is a claim that there was a scene in which Finn was supposed to directly use the Force in TROS during the Star Destroyer scene where he and Jannah are trying to shoot the canons on the ship at the bridge/command center and supposedly it was changed to the scene we got where BB-8 unlocked the hatch. I bring it up to suggest that if it is true then Disney decision makers already downplayed a scene with Finn using the Force and may downplay it further in coming movies. As true with the old EU, he'll probably only get full shine in the growing current EU. This would also testisfy to some of the corporate bureaucracy behind the bait and switch with Finn's character in TFA and the further decline of his character in TLJ. (Source: Reddit Link, some of this is believable, some of it is sketchy like the FinnPoe claim that J.J. tried to fight for that. The same source claims J.J. was against Reylo, which I believe, but then claims J.J. was for FinnPoe which was an even smaller and far more controversial ship.)

But hey, it's just a rumor. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Ultimately, I'd like to hope now that they got Rey's story out of their system on the big screen that they'd move forward and stop ruining other characters as well as hers, but my hopefulness that they've learned their lesson is dismal now. I hate to be a downer, but well...their track record hasn't be green to me. Minus the Mandalorian from what I hear. Haven't watched it yet.

 

I like the rumor that in Tros Finn was suppose to use to Force and open a door on the Star Destroyer.

 

I don’t know if the rumor is true , but I think the director made the right call if it is true. Finn blowing up the transmission tower was a secondary plot that was happening in parallel with Poe’s airstrike and the main Palpatine/Rey arc. Showing Finn opening the hatch with the force would have required a special focus on the scene that would have distracted from everything else that was going on. Besides, why would he use the force when he had BB-8 to open the hatch ? It is well-established in Star Wars continuity that this is an action that droids routinely perform.

The movie makes it clear that Finn is force sensitive. When he senses the location of the transmission tower, John Williams’ force theme even plays in the background. And, then, of course Finn senses Rey’s death. Even before the battle of Exegol, there were numerous other clues such as Finn sensing Ren in the desert or him telling Jannah about his defection from the FO or telling Poe that he and Leia knew what Rey was fighting against whereas Poe did not ( presumably because, unlike Finn and Leia, Poe wasn’t force sensitive). There was no need then to show Finn moving a door with the force to make a point. His force skills were showcased much like Leia’s at the end of ESB or RoTJ ( even more so perhaps) and I am satisfied with that.